Discussion for Episode 15: So-Called Angels

[Natasha (candygirl)]

Welcome to our fifteenth MSCL.com episode discussion!

If you haven't already done so, please read the info about the weekly discussions here.

I highly recommend reading theAngela's World essay that pertains to this episode.

Other threads related to So-Called Angels that may be of interest are:
So-Called Angels
PSAT
rayanne nowhere to be seen
product placement
what do you think Rusty was like?
some things I noticed
Patty and Graham suck
Angela, Rayanne, & Rickie
first impressions

Some threads about recurring themes:

hair as a metaphor
food
the contradiction that we call Rayanne

[TomSpeed]

I've been kind of busy today at work. But I was able to read the "Angela's World" essay for "So-Called Angels." It's a very good analysis of the episode. Just reading it made me sad. I'll try to post more later.

[meggrrrl]

I'm one of those who really disliked this episode for the mysterious "is-she-or-isn't-she-an-angel" bit. I think perhaps because it is a Christmas chiche, not because it isn't well done - it is. Upon reading the Angela's world essay and re-watching it several times since I've had the DVD, I've found new respect for it, though.

I've found a few minutes to watch a bit of it this morning, and here are some of my comments:

I understand that Bess Armstrong helped develop this episode; I wonder what religious affiliation she is. I love how this episode seems to be able to be quietly Christian without being preachy. Religion is such a delicate subject, and many TV shows, movies, etc around Christmastime tend to go the easy route and ignore its involvement in the season. I respect a show that is brave enough to takle it, and takling the subject effectively deserves a medal.

I love how defensive Patty and Graham get over Angela's simple (and understandible) curiousity about religion. When she asks if they believe in God, they take it as alomst an insult. Graham is a former Catholic, and he and Patty have opposing beliefs. Since Graham won't go to church, I wonder what those beliefs are. It's interesting to me because my husband is also a "lapsed" Catholic who won't go to church.

Poor Rickie. At school he gets beaten up becuase he's so different (read: gay) and I wonder if that's the problem at home too. If he'd just dress and act "normal," he'd be able to fit in, have a home, not be beaten up, etc. Yet he is so innocent and pure, it's almost as if the temptation to be something he isn't hasn't even occurred to him. He comes across at times as the one who just "goes along to get along" but here we see that he is actually the least likely to do that.

When Rickie bumps into Jordan and Jordan gives him a place to stay, the song "Home for the Holidays" is playing.

I also liked when the "angel" tells Angela that Rickie is okay, Angela's reaction is "Thank God."

I loved Sharon telling Brian about people who experience "actual symptoms of depression, or whatever" poor Brian is so lonely.

Previously, Rickie's rocky home life was compared with Rayanne's, but in this episode, we see that there is a HUGE difference between them. Rickie is really in a dangerous situation. A sincerely lonely situation. Rayanne has Amber, and she probably always will. Rickie seems to have more in common with Brian, who is also somewhat os a "cast-away." Brian is an afterthought to his parents.

I liked that moment when Angela is telling Brian about Rickie's situation, and you see the close-up of her placing baby Jesus in the manger, while saying "you wouldn't believe where he's been sleeping." (or something similar to that).

Rayanne calls Angela "angelfood" - more of that food theme! And how wonderfully obvious - Angela is like nourishment to not only Rayanne, but just a few scenes later to Rickie.

I also loved those great one-liners - Danielle saying "can we stop talking about religion? It's Christmas!" and Brian's complaint that "everyone talks about Christmas like it's the second coming or something." Made my almost-athiest husband laugh out loud.

So I only got about halfway through the episode. Hope to watch more this afternoon!

Meg

[TomSpeed]

I have to admit that I didn't like "So-Called Angels" that much the first few times I watched it. An angel comes to Pittsburgh to watch over Angela and her friends and family? It's just not a believable scenario. However, nothing about religion and spiritualism is very believable. Religion or a general belief in a higher power is an important part of many people's lives. If your show deals with real life issues, shouldn't you address religion? And once you've made the decision to tackle religion, what better way to deal with it than with a light touch? "So-Called Angels" isn't preachy, but it has many messages.

As per usual, we join the action in medias res (in the middle of things). We see Rickie spitting up blood, beaten up, stumbling into a crowd of people. We don't know who beat him up. We don't how long he's been stumbling along. All we really know is that he is hurt and no one stops to help him. I would like to think that I would help someone beaten up like Rickie if I passed him on the street. Maybe I would stop and help him. But maybe I would cross to the other side of the street. The Christ imagery in this scene is not difficult to grasp.

Busy...more later.

[TomSpeed]

The next scene, which involves Angela, Patty, Graham, and Danielle, is interesting. Although we do not know what prompts Angela's questions ("Why don't we go to Church?" and "Do you believe in God?"), we can assume that these are important questions for Angela. She has probably thinking about these questions for a long time. These are natural questions for a 15 years old person. It's about this time that children start to consider their places in the larger scheme of things. They also question what they have been told by their parents. Their adult identities are forming. Often, if the family has gone to Church, a young adult with question why they go to Church. In the Chase household, religion hasn't really been discussed. Patty and Graham are taken aback by Angela's questions. They, esp. Patty, pride themselves on being good parents who prepare their children for life. They have not addressed an important area of their children's lives. They have not attempted to provide nourishment for their souls. The reasons for this apparent lapse are a little unclear -- Graham left the Catholic Church, and Patty just says she wasn't Catholic. They state that their religious differences and the children's indifference to religion keep them from attending church services. But we don't really know what differences. These excuses seem lame and on the spot. Danielle's request that they not talk about religion because "it's Christmas" hits the nail on the head. There is little to do with Christ in the Chase family's celebration. The Chases are relatively secure and happy. People tend to turn toward religion during times of stress and uncertainty. There is nothing inherently wrong with not being religious. Many American families don't attend any church. However, Patty's asking Graham to attend church services at least show that Angela's questions trouble her enough to take some actions. Maybe Patty has considered these issues herself for awhile on her own. Graham's statement that "Church isn't for me" is a little troubling. Why is it not for him?

[TomSpeed]

Brian's Situation

It's interesting that Brian rejects his parent's invitation to accompany them on their cruise. We don't really know the real reasons. We know from "Life of Brian" that his parents make him uncomfortable because they always psychoanalyze him. He might want to escape their attention for a little while. Of course, he also might want to spend more time with a normal family, the Chases, and Angela in particular. And he might also want to test the waters of living on his own. It does seem a little strange for Bob and Bernice Krakow to leave Brian on his own for such a long length of time. They ask Patty if she and Graham can check up on Brian while they are gone. But this isn't the same as having someone actually in the house. Maybe they leave him alone often.

I don't have any Jewish friends, so I don't know from first-hand experience how the Christmas season affects them. But I can imagine that the pervasiveness of Christmas makes them uncomfortable. Even though Brian is Jewish, he probably cannot help but feel left out of all of the things associated with Christmas -- the singing, spending time with family and friends, etc. Maybe he would be more OK by himself during another time of the year. I wonder how many other Jewish students there are at Liberty High. There probably are not very many Jewish students at Liberty. There might be few Jewish people in Three Rivers. We never really see Brian with other people besides Angela and their friends. So, Brian doesn't seem to have a support group. The Chases, given their non-religiousness, probably do not really understand how difficult Christmas would be for Brian even if his parents were home.

In some respects, Brian is a member of the Chase family. In some ways he is not. He needs to have a reason, no matter how lame, to be in the Chase home. But when he is with them, he seems to be accepted. I wonder how many Christmases Brian has spent with the Chases. His acceptance in the family seems unstated. This situation is both good and bad. He knows he has a place to go to not be alone, but he isn't really a part of the family. His situation is similiar to Rayanne's situation. Plus, his attraction for Angela must be factored into the equation.

I think his call to the Teen Help Line is a real call for help. People do get caught up in their own problems, they can't see the big picture. Quiet and somewhat lonely people usually suffer in silence. Their problems tend to get worse because they don't seek help to try to solve them.

It's fitting that Rayanne is the one to help him through a difficult time. She is a good listener, as Sharon says. She helps Brian in much the same way that Brian helps her in "Halloween." Well, the phone sex part is kind of different. Rayanne engages in misdirection, distration, and encouragement. What young man cannot be brought around by a vision of a sexy woman popping out of blouse and pants? Even though Brian doesn't have a real woman now, he probably will in the future. But if he is so caught up in being down, he might miss his chance to find one.

[TomSpeed]

I hate to admit that I had never heard of Julianna Hatfield before seeing this episode. I'm so out of the loop with music, it's not even funny. I surfed a couple sites and listened to clips of her music. Does anyone have her CDs? If so, which ones would you recommend?

[lithiumkat]

Well, First off I must say it really upsets me that so many people disliked this episode, I do NOT understand why. I love this episode, I had never seen it until I purchased the dvd boxed set, however this episode has touched me about more than any of the others like emotionally and such. This episode makes me like BAWL everytime I watch it like to the point that it screws up my sinuses and I can't breath out my nose. I could just be really stupid and pathetic though, it's quite possible.

A strange thing is usually xmas episodes on shows tick me off, I'm not christian and do not believe in the christian idea of god. But you guys are right that they did a nice job touching on a touchy subject.

I love the comments between ray and sharon

"talking to people like you could like push people over the edge."
"over the edge...thats like your address right?"

LOL i love that. and yes I agree, poor Brian there was even the OBVIOUS hint when it's said about lack of appetite and then they offer Brian a cookie and hes like I'm not hungry.

At least Patty and Graham realize how pitiful it is that Brians parents left him by himself on the holidays. Even though I think they find him quite annoying a lot of times they still feel bad for him.

On the Rickie thing...at the beginning, when Angela calls him up on it and then Rayanne quickly explains then runs off obviously not wanting to discuss it again. I get the feeling it's like well see everyone has like certian things that are like very touchy subjects or whatever with them. certian things about them that they do NOT want to talk about or be mentioned. And no one likes to talk about it or bring it up. It is obviously one of those moments. Rayanne realizes it's a touchy subject and shouldn't really be talked about.

Angela obviously has never encountered anything like this with a friend's problems or whatever. But she clearly realizes something is terribly wrong and that Rickie is in major trouble, she wants to help him, but poor Rickie is so proud like I mean, he doesn't want to mooch or impose and he is a prideful enough person it hurts him for Angela to see him like that and it is like he snaps when she tries to help because she's got such a good family/home life I think it is embarrassing to him about his situation trying to talk about it with her.

It cracks me up how stupid Patty sounds when she goes "Oh Rickies here, look honey Rickies here." Graham goes "clearly.." But even Patty and Graham realize something is wrong but it bothers me that they won't really help him any better, I think they were wrong...

I think it helps Rickie a little when he has that little chat with Jordan in the car, and we see Jordan in another light when we get this little insight. And it's nice that he helps. I love where Rickie says "I'm gonna light a candle for you on Christmas" and Jordan says "oh yeah you think that changes anything" and typical innocent sounding Rickie says "uh huh" totally sincerely. And Jordan admits to Angela later that he didnt even know why he says things like that cuz he doesnt even mean them.

Sharon is so worried about her commitment to the help line, and all her other commitments that she fails to see so many OBVIOUS signs that Brian is having problems and is suffering from the depression that so many deal with during the holidays. Which is sad cuz shes usually the one to pick up on peoples problems and when they need help. Oh and the scene w/ Ray and Bri on the help line OMG that is like so funny that had me ROLLING!!!

The thing w/ her and Rayanne doing the help line together just confirms their friendship even though they are not completely openly "FRIENDS"

I think the "angel's" song is absolutely beautiful. I would have been drawn to it in the same way as Angela. I think Angela never even thought that homeless people could be just like her. Just average teenagers who are down on their luck. I dont think the thought ever occurred to her before. I think it really has an impact on her...that realization. It really upset me when Patty wouldn't let Angela bring the girl and Rickie there for Christmas, I think it meant a lot to Angela. But I can see Patty's point too I mean I see why she was worried. It's really sad for some reason to me when the girl says "it's just some song i'm working on....I'll probably be working on it forever" that line makes me sad.

I thought it was amazing when Angela traded her nice new boots to the girl with holes in her shoes. It shows how much compassion for others that Angela really has for others. I notice how Angela does not realize that the girl is not really there...not really alive or whatever. But later the scene with Patty, it does not take long for Patty to catch on.

Something I've always contemplated/noticed is it seems like all of Angelas friends, except maybe Sharon cuz her home life is very similar to Angelas, seem to envy her sort of for her home life. Brian...being left alone. Rayanne with her non conventional, somewhat irresponsible, sometimes not very mother like mom, Amber. and Rickie for obvious reasons.

The scene with Angela walking through the abandoned warehouse and the echoing song is very haunting, it's one of those times when a show/movie/whatever really make me FEEL something, this haunting almost empty strange but in a way beautiful feeling. There are very few other things that do that (i can only think of Virgin Suicides and What dreams may come) Angela looks like she is going to cry when she finds the girl, she looks almost downright heartbroken. And then when she sees Rickie, I feel like her heart just breaks when she sees him like that. at Christmas time no less. (I'm such a dork I'm typing while I watch and crying cuz of this episode)

Poor Rickie just cant bring himself to let Angela help him. He feels like hes almost not even good enough to be her friend. I feel so bad for her when he says "if you want to help me leave me alone" she just wanted him to be safe. and poor Rickie even in his situation worried about Angela playing his typical caretaker role.

I notice how Angela covers the torn up boots with her flannel shirt probably afraid of her parents getting mad. Parents sometimes tend to forget how it is when you are younger how you want to save the world end pollution all on your own, feed all the starving yourself. and house all the homeless. It was so mean how Angela said "excuse me why are you here" to brian but I think she was only like that cuz she was upset. I dont think she realizes or means or tries to be mean to Brian.

Brian like Angela comes to the same realization as Angela earlier in the band room when Angela is talking to him about the warehouse and the kids and stuff. I feel so bad because Patty and Graham obviously want to help but then they talk to the guy and they don't even seem like they are really going to help or whatever. And you can tell Graham especially has doubts about the whole thing.

The runaway/throwaway thing is not exactly always like that. Rickie is both, he was pushed out because he was beaten, but in the same sense he left of his own will. so its not a black/white thing there are shades of gray there.

The voices when Patty looks at the picture of the missing girl, that also causes those same feelings as the warehouse, adn the song for me. Again I can't help but wonder how anyone can not like this episode.

For once Angela is so excited about her idea about the dinner. And then Patty just shoots it down totally and you can see Angela is just totally crushed. Angela is afraid the police are going to make all the kids leave the warehouse and they will have nowhere to go. And Angela is obviously so frustrated with the way Patty is not understanding. But Angela at this point realizes in a way that Patty doesn't.

The whole discussion about the "fight having you" that really gets me. That phrase is really wow. And it was obvious to me when they first argued that when she said you cant go back to that place the look on angelas face was like. oh yeah? watch me. I feel bad for Patty going off on Brian but shes so worried she doesnt have time for brians babbling and incoherent sentences. Poor Brian just wants some human/family type interaction for Christmas.

I feel so bad for Brian when he actually breaks down and cries. He must feel so COMPLETELY alone, If you think about it Brian doesn't even have any close friends really he just gets blown off by pretty much everybody even his family. And everybody feels so annoyed by him. It must make him feel so worthless.

Leave it to Rayanne to deal with a situation like that in that way. It works though you know Brian is so like lol Freaked OUT that he isn't quite so depressed. It cracks me up when he says are you sure this is the help line. lol thinking he accidentally dialed a porn line. and the pun about "i better get off" that was hilarious. I hope I wasnt the only one who got that. Sharon was just like OH. MY. GOD.

Patty sees Angela's boots and thinks it is her. but I think the "angel" purposely did that like she knew Patty was going to follow her, and that Patty would realize that "that girl" COULD be Angela she just never really realized.

Poor Patty sounds so hopeless calling for Angela feeling so helpless. She realizes when she talks to the girl. She didnt ever think that "normal" girl's could get in a situation like that. And Patty picks up really quick that this isnt some NORMAL girl exactly. And then the girl says the same thing about the fight. and Patty realizes that it COULD be Angela in a situation like that. And when she finds out that the girl ran off and froze to death she is so scared..for Angela and for all the things that she herself failed to realize. I think it really opened up Patty's eyes a little. Opened up her mind a little.

I love how at the end all the different things kind of bring everyone together at the church. And I think Rickie is finally able to realize that he cant fix this himself as much as he wants to and as much as he hates to admit he finally realizes he needs help. And I think Patty realizes that she was wrong about Rickie and Rickie seems so happy and relieved to just see a familiar face and an adult to make him feel safe and comforted, he had been so scared for so long and didnt know what to do or who to turn to. He IS still a kid after all even at fifteen we are much younger than we think we are at that time, and still very much more kids than we think we are. And Patty realizes he IS a good kid and he doesn't deserve this. And that he just needs someone to make him feel like things will be okay.

Graham ends up going to church after all. Bringing Danielle and the family is reunited and brought together at the Church for Christmas eve and Brian is there too and I think he realizes that people DO care about him even if they do brush him off sometimes.

I think Angela is just so happy that Rickie is alright. It also pans over to Sharon and Rayanne having fun together, although I doubt theyd admit they had that much fun together to anyone else lol. And it even shows Jordan lighting a candle even after what he said to Rickie. I wonder if he lit the candle for Rickie since Rickie told him he would light one for him.

And then the "angel" realizes she's done her job, and I think almost justifying her own death in possibly "saving" someone like Angela and making an extreme impact on all of their lives.

I also love how MSCL touched a VERY serious issue with the missing/lost/abused children thing and had the message at the end to call the number.

Well okay, the episode is over now and I've typed this whole long thing I am sure I will think of more to say later, because I already had so many things in my head to talk about with this episode since it is very special to me and has such an emotional impact on me, even before this thread was posted. I was thinking about the discussion for this episode like earlier. So I'm sure I'll think of more. Or want to respond to different things, I may even edit this. but My fingers hurt and I think this is all for now lol.

[meggrrrl]

Whew, Kat you can write some long posts! I love your idea about watching while typing. I wish I had a tv in here so I could do that too!

Well, First off I must say it really upsets me that so many people disliked this episode, I do NOT understand why.

Well, like I said, to a lot of us, the whole angel thing seems a little corny. It's well done, imho, but it's such a Christmas show chiche. I think it's an amazing episode that could have only been improved by cutting Juliana Hatfield right out of it. But that's just me.

I'm not christian and do not believe in the christian idea of god. But you guys are right that they did a nice job touching on a touchy subject.

This is what's so amazing about this show. God, I LOVE mscl!! See, you, a total non-Christian were touched, and I, a churchgoing Christian was also touched. Not a lot of shows (moveis, books, etc) can address religion so beautifully, in a way that people on both (- or all) sides of the fence can appreciate.

One of the things in the Angela's Wrold essay that I thought was interesting that you started to touch on was the scene between Rickie and Jordan. In the essay, it points out that Jordan's rejection of Rickie's faith softens with each scene. Though he initially mocks Rickie, the next time we see him, he admits not meaining it. The last time we see him, he is lighting a candle. He's made a complete 180. It's such a great scene because it's not the slightest bit heavy-handed. Jordan might not be lighting the candle as a sign of faith, but he has at least opened his heart to the possibility that lighting a candle is a nice gesture. Or maybe it was just getting dark? The writers let us wonder - they probably would have addressed all this in later episodes.

It's really sad for some reason to me when the girl says "it's just some song i'm working on....I'll probably be working on it forever" that line makes me sad.

In the essay, it says that this is a hint that she is dead. You get that feeling. She will literally be working on it forever.

Tom, I thought your comments on being Jewish at Christmastime were really interesting. I'm a Christian in a Christian world, I know a handful of people with no real religious convicionts (ex-Christians who can kind of just belnd in at Christmastime) and one pagan, but I dont' think I know anyone Jewish. It must be difficult - especially isolating for poor Brian. I wondered briefly is Sharon could be Jewish too. Cherski could be a Jewish name, but I suppose with her intensely positive attitude towards Christmas, she is probably either a Christian or someone who attaches no real religious significance to Christmas (hence, being free to work at the helpline on Christmas eve).

Oh, and I had heard of Julianna Hatfield, I think she has a song on the soundtrack of Reality Bites. A college roommate of mine had a CD of hers, but I was never all that into her. I liked angry lesbian rock, Hatfield was a little too sacaharine for me.

Gotta run, my babies are crying.
Meg

[hurtstolookatyou]

Well, like I said, to a lot of us, the whole angel thing seems a little corny. It's well done, imho, but it's such a Christmas show chiche. I think it's an amazing episode that could have only been improved by cutting Juliana Hatfield right out of it. But that's just me.

I don't like the angel concept either. while it makes for a touching story, there isn't a lot of realism in it. i think it would have been more effective if juliana hatfield had been a regular girl who was a catalyst to bringing everyone together and helping them understand each other.

[TomSpeed]

"So-Called Angels" is the only episode that mentions Brian has a sister. The sister is married and lives in Denver. Brian seems to suffer from only child syndrome. I imagine Brian's sister to be a few or more than a few years older than Brian. The difference in ages between Angela and Danielle is four years. What do you think the difference in ages between Brian and his sister? What impact, if any, do you think Brian's sister has on his life?

[Nothingman]

I get the impression that his sister would have been a scholastic overacheiver too. That could be one of the reasons that Brian puts so much pressure on himself to get A's. I'd guess Brian's sister is done with college, but she could have a 4 year degree or if she's like Brian, she might have her masters, or maybe she's doctor, the point is this. She'd be at least 22 or 23. That would put her atleast 7 years older than Brian. Whatever the age difference, it was enough that she didn't interact with Brian, Angela, or Sharon when they were younger (they never mention her).

[TomSpeed]

brief note --

I like Angela telling Rayanne that she should have hidden Rickie in her room. This dialogue echoes the Anne Frank theme explored earlier in the series. Jews were hidden by other Jews and Christians during the Nazi occupation of Europe. I wouldn't go so far as to say Graham and Patty are like Nazis, but they do represent authority.

[TomSpeed]

I get the impression that his sister would have been a scholastic overacheiver too. That could be one of the reasons that Brian puts so much pressure on himself to get A's. I'd guess Brian's sister is done with college, but she could have a 4 year degree or if she's like Brian, she might have her masters, or maybe she's doctor, the point is this. She'd be at least 22 or 23. That would put her atleast 7 years older than Brian. Whatever the age difference, it was enough that she didn't interact with Brian, Angela, or Sharon when they were younger (they never mention her).

That's what I was thinking, too.

[shorty]

I am another non-christian who was completely touched by this episode. It kind of taught me that whatever you believe in, a church can be used as a place to seek comfort and guidance, and is a place where you will almost always be welcome. And although I'm not a religious person, I have a lot of different religions around me ie. Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Rastafarian, I find myself taking different elements of each to help me along in life...

Also when Jordan lights the candle, there is an ornament next to it. I think it's an angel? If it is, I like that little touch.

TOMSPEED- I ordered a JULIANA HATFIELD album the other day cos it's got 'Dame With a Rod' from OTHER PEOPLES MOTHERS on it which I love. The album's called BECOME WHAT YOU ARE. I would say about half of it's good but it might grow on me, and I think some of the songs are well written, and her voice sounds quite nice on the CD, less sugary than in ANGELS. Hope that helps.