Should Angela have Jordan or Brian?

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.

Should Angela choose Jordan or Brian?

Jordan
38
54%
Brian
32
46%
 
Total votes: 70

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KrokRos
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Should Angela have Jordan or Brian?

Post by KrokRos » Jul 31st 2002, 6:09 am

Just, would be interesting to know what you guys think.
Last edited by KrokRos on Aug 14th 2002, 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by just-likeKrakow » Jul 31st 2002, 8:25 am

i liked jordan...i think he was coming around near the end of the season and have no doubts that he his character would have grown

But for Angela...

i think she was slowly seeing that Brian could have been what she was needing. So, i like to dream that they eventually got together or atleast awhile. :wink:
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Jul 31st 2002, 1:08 pm

I'm so torn - I picture the cover of my Sixteen Candles video but with Brian looking at Angela who is looking at Jordan. :D

I think that there was more to Jordan than meets the eye and that it was a matter of letting down his guard so that Angela could see more than his silky hair, eyes like the sea before a storm, and...sorry, I was wandering off a bit there!

Jordan's "whatever happens, happens" philosophy might seem like a cop-out (okay, it is a stupid excuse for not making plans and commitments - despite the fact that he makes plans and commits to band rehearsal and tearing up the track on Halloween), but at least he has given it some thought. The fact that brainiac Brian has the same philosophy? I'm not saying that Jordan is a genius, but he is not as stupid as people assume.

The biggest glimmer of hope IMHO, was when Jordan went to Angela's house to have sex with her while her parents were sleeping :wink: - after listening to Angela and Patty's exchange, he says, "Do you like me? Your mom says you do." This shows that he has a sense of humor and knows how to push Angela's buttons (in a non-sexual sense). For one moment, they seem like a couple flirting with each other.

Interestingly, Brian has shown most of his true colors to Angela but she hasn't been paying attention enough to see him for what he really is - a nice guy who is in love with her. I guess that old saying "you see what you want to see" is true in this case. Instead of seeing him as someone who has genuine concern for her emotional well-being, she views him as the annoying neighbor who won't get out of her life.

In the last episode, Angela glimpses the real elements of both Brian and Jordan. She finally sees Brian as something besides the guy who lives across the street - she sees him as a sensitive caring person. She also sees what Jordan is capable of - going to her house (the abortive attempt at meeting her parents notwithstanding), talking to her mom, and making an effort.

Jordan is the fantasy that I wish could come true for her, but Brian seems to be the reality that will be dependable and stable (in a good way!) and in the end better for her. I think that in those last moments of MSCL Angela began to realize that Brian would never hurt her the way Jordan has.

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Wow

Post by mgreeson » Jul 31st 2002, 4:31 pm

Well said, all true and completely on the money. But I still think in the end Jordan is who she needed to be with right now. Because Brian was just all wrog for her at that period in her life. They are too different for each other right now. But wow, everything you said just almost made me cry it was so right on and sincere. It makes me really wish that I could have been able to push through Jordan's rough exterior to see the sensitive side.
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Post by dTheater » Jul 31st 2002, 11:57 pm

She shouldn't have chosen either of them. She had enough trouble loving herself.
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Post by Guest » Aug 1st 2002, 12:35 am

First of all, I think this board should have a seperate category for this subject rather than just compiling it under the heading "The Show" because this subject will be debated until the apocalypse or if Holzman decides to put the matter at rest by releasing scripts 20,21....etc (if any exsists, and in my opinion, does or at least a vague idea that needs to be expanded upon).

I've pondered upon this question for a long time and I just can't find any reasoning that would support the idea of Chase and Catalano. Brian has so much more to offer and there is one quality that no one in the show has except for Brian( maybe Graham.....) - intuition.
Catalano might have the potential to evolve into the next level of sophistication, however his qualities are no substitute for substance. Not only does Krakow demonstrate his intellectual superiority but his ability to foresee and analyse certain events/human conditions is equal to none.
And this quality cannot be learned, it is a trait by birth.
Chase needs to realize her potential to become a well-rounded character and to nurture and expose this quality, Krakow is the answer.

But, I think Bri-boy needs to do two things:
1. It seems to me that his ego gets in the way of everything and he needs to realize that he is not alone in this world. If this can be remedied, Chase will have a hard time trying to find his equal.
2. What's up with that Anglo-Afro(aka. Mop-Top)?

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Post by kimincali » Aug 1st 2002, 12:39 am

I think Angela should and would have ended up with Jordan.

To Brian, Angela is just a fantasy, like Jordan was to Angela at the beginning of the show. I'm not sure if it would have worked out at all if he had actually gotten to go out with her. He is still awkward and pretty much incapable of expressing himself (although he did so through Jordan). And not that Jordan was any better, but as it has already been stated, he was coming around.

At the end of "Pressure," you can see that Jordan is really in love with Angela, but could not separate himself from his desire to be "normal" and do what his friends expected. But I think that you can see in the final scene with Patty, that he is willing to do things he would not ordinarily do (talk with Angela's mom) in order to be with Angela.

Brian is not ready for Angela, but Jordan definitely is.

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Is Angela Ready?

Post by Nostradamus » Aug 1st 2002, 6:42 am

We're so busy wondering whether Angela should choose Brian or Jordan, maybe we should stop to think whether either of them would really be better off with her. Angela has demomstrated all of the sensitivity of a brick wall when she finally realized Brian's affection for her, even though all of her friends and family figured it out long ago. Similarly, she is so blinded by her dreams of what Jordan could be that she cannot see the good, if imperfect man that he really is, and the resulting discrepancy often hurts them both. Agela is a fine young woman to be sure, but she is perhaps too young for the kind of relationship she has in mind. I can't help but feel that either Jordan or Brian is in for a rocky romance, at least until Angela reaches a higher plane of emotional maturity.

Ah, hell, it's such a close call between those two guys, she'd probably just despair of them both and join a convent or something :wink:
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Post by sine » Aug 1st 2002, 8:12 am

Anonymous wrote:Catalano might have the potential to evolve into the next level of sophistication, however his qualities are no substitute for substance. Not only does Krakow demonstrate his intellectual superiority but his [Jordan's, I assume] ability to foresee and analyse certain events/human conditions is equal to none.
And this quality cannot be learned, it is a trait by birth.
On the contrary! To foresee and to be able to analyse events and human conditions is, I think, a quality of mature. And none of these high school kids is necessarily yet fully grown up on the emotional side -- they have time to learn these kind of things, how to read people, how your actions may cause harm even when you don't mean it, and so on.

And this learning process in real life can be really cumbersome, which is quite well portrayed in the show, for example through the character of Brian.
Last edited by sine on Aug 2nd 2002, 3:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by kimincali » Aug 1st 2002, 12:20 pm

I have to agree with sine on this one. Of course Angela is not ready to have the long-term, emotionally-invested relationship she is dreaming of. She's 15. Failed romances are part of life, part of growing up. It is in these beginning relationships that Angela will gain the experience necessary to have meaningful relationships later on.

I also disagree with Nostradamus, in that I think Angela was very emotional when she saw that Brian had written the letter, but her reactions are non-verbal. I think at that point she realized that she had never truly "seen" Brian, and in fact had not been one of the friends that let friends change (as she talks about in the pilot), and always saw Brian as he was when they were ten. However, she couldn't just ignore all the feelings she had for Jordan in those 5 seconds that they're walking to his car and run into the arms of Brian. He probably would have vomited if she did. If there had been more episodes, we probably would have seen her debating between the two.

In short, Jordan is what Angela needed then. perhaps she and brian would have ended up together when they were older, and both had romantic experience.

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Post by william bloke » Aug 2nd 2002, 3:25 am

I agree that none of the characters have the level of maturity that of an adult. However, Bri-boy is the only one in the show that comes even close. His unrelenting devotion and selfless sacrifice for the one he loves demonstrates that he is close to a relationship that Chase longs for. Angela is not ready for such a relationship even though she desperately wants one. Although Catalano appears to "come around" in the finale, he just does not have the substance to fulfill the gaps in Angela's life. Even if Chase/Catalano works out, at the end of the day, Jordan will always go home thinking "why is she like this?" and Angela "why is he like this?" But, Brian on the otherhand will think(no matter what happens) "well, she is like this." Brian is ten-times the man that Jordan wishes he could be.

Because of the "discombobulated" nature of Angela's life, Krakow is the cure-all. His intuitive nature could be a guide to the search for Angela's "true self, aka. toaster" and Angela's style of nurture could remedy his bloated ego and cynicism. What does Catalano have to offer? Asthetics and hollow sensitivity?
If intuition is a "learned" trait, I must have missed that class. I wonder where I could retake this "course" because recently my monetary investments have not been too sound.

Question: With regards to Angela's life, can Catalano be replaced? In my opinion, easily. There must be a "Jordan" in every city across the nation. There is no replacement for Krakow. He is exclusive.

I'd suggest...."Take the money and run, Chase-Face!"
(Rallies for more "Mop-Top" fans!)

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Post by Nostradamus » Aug 2nd 2002, 8:08 am

kimincali wrote:I have to agree with sine on this one. Of course Angela is not ready to have the long-term, emotionally-invested relationship she is dreaming of. She's 15. Failed romances are part of life, part of growing up. It is in these beginning relationships that Angela will gain the experience necessary to have meaningful relationships later on.

I also disagree with Nostradamus, in that I think Angela was very emotional when she saw that Brian had written the letter, but her reactions are non-verbal. I think at that point she realized that she had never truly "seen" Brian, and in fact had not been one of the friends that let friends change (as she talks about in the pilot), and always saw Brian as he was when they were ten. However, she couldn't just ignore all the feelings she had for Jordan in those 5 seconds that they're walking to his car and run into the arms of Brian. He probably would have vomited if she did. If there had been more episodes, we probably would have seen her debating between the two.

In short, Jordan is what Angela needed then. perhaps she and brian would have ended up together when they were older, and both had romantic experience.
Well, I've just been reviewing my last post, and it's a good thing kimincali called me on it because that was the worst possible grammatical error I could have made :oops: . I first said "Angela has demonstrated all of the sensitivity of a brick wall when she finally realised Brian's affection for her, even though all of her friends and family had figured it out long ago." OK, now go back and substitute "had" for "has" and "until" for "when" in the previous sentence. What I meant to say and should have said was "Angela had demonstrated all of the sensitivity of a brick wall until she finally realised Brian's affection for her, etc." A couple of words make a big difference, eh? Anyway, my point is, I actually agree with kimincali's entire second paragraph, and I definitely think that if Angela had suddenly embraced Brian, he would at least faint, probably have a stroke :lol: . Still, I'm not so sure that Angela "needed" Jordan, or any beau. Sometimes I feel like screaming at the TV: You're just fifteen! Stop obsessing! It's not a big deal! :P
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Elinor

Post by Elinor » Aug 2nd 2002, 1:31 pm

Neither Jordan nor Brian is exchangeable as every human being is unique.

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KrokRos
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Post by KrokRos » Aug 2nd 2002, 2:01 pm

...but the fact that they're just characters in a tv-show. But you're exaclty right. I agree. I wasn't gonna bud in here because the discussions seem to have gotten too far. I mean. I don't know if I meant the poll to be about the day after och years after. I'm not even fully sure which one I would vote for. In the ending I was holding my thumb for Brian but you can reason many way. *diplomatic*

So this far, there is split opinions about it anyway and those who think neither shouldn't vote at all. I mean, this is not a matter of life and death. :)

Thank you guys for voting and sharing your opinions. :)

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Just realized

Post by mgreeson » Aug 2nd 2002, 2:09 pm

I just realized how close the vote is. I thought Jordan would have won by a landslide.
-This whole day has just been one big long thing that makes no sense.\"

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