Patty and Graham suck!

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
Debs
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Re: Patty and Graham suck

Post by Debs » Jul 24th 2002, 12:47 pm

"maybe we should have got rid of the young cast altogether and turn the show into Thirtysomething part two"

Why do you feel the need to categorize MSCL??? Can't it just be what it is; a thought-provoking drama about people who may or may not be teenagers??

How many years have you got left before you officially become 'boring'?
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Patty and Graham suck!!!!

Post by Tyler Durdenx » Jul 24th 2002, 2:17 pm

I was not catagorising MSCL, but merely suggesting a way in which i feel that the show could have been better. I was under the impression that was what the forum was for, and not just raving about what your favourite part was and how much of a good program it was. We can all do that. We all know it was a good program, or we wouldnt be here. I was merely attempting a discussion and putting my views forward on the parts i think could have changed.
Can't it just be what it is; a thought-provoking drama about people who may or may not be teenagers??
Well, it WAS about teenagers. Its not a case of whether it may or may not be. it just .....WAS. And, everyone who seems to think that it wouldnt have been as good without the parents in it as much seem to be forgetting that in the beggining, the writers seemed to agree with ME. the only reason the parents were in it so much is because Claire Danes couldnt work such long hours cos she was too young.

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Re: Patty and Graham suck!!!!

Post by Debs » Jul 24th 2002, 3:30 pm

"Well, it WAS about teenagers."

Yes! And the people who surrounded them / mattered to them / affected them! The writers and producers wanting to get a brand new television show off the ground would not invest in it unless each and every detail was worked out before hand. They wouldn't haphazardly slot in random adult characters simply because the younger ones had legal ties associated with their age. Plus, Claire Danes was an unknown then, so it's not like MSCL was a vehicle for her to "star in".

The show's creators will have researched and constructed every character and planned every single episode before launching into filming. Your point of view is understandable because until MSCL, there were only either "teenage shows" or "adult shows", never one which so charmingly mixed the two together. This bravery was probably the main reason for its downfall. The show was billed for a youth audience - obviously - as the main character was Angela. But as viewers, our involvement doesn't just stop there.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours. But if your belief is under such a passionately expressed title as "Patty and Graham suck", then it's only to be expected than people are going to respond equally as passionately.
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Re: Patty and Graham suck!!!!

Post by Nostradamus » Jul 25th 2002, 7:53 am

"It's only to be expected that people are going to respond equally as passionately" --Well here's my response--
Tyler Durdenx wrote:I was not catagorising MSCL, but merely suggesting a way in which i feel that the show could have been better. I was under the impression that was what the forum was for, and not just raving about what your favourite part was and how much of a good program it was. We can all do that. We all know it was a good program, or we wouldnt be here. I was merely attempting a discussion and putting my views forward on the parts i think could have changed.


Hmmm... I wonder if Adam and Eve ever said: "Hey God, this Paradise is pretty good and all but we were thinking that it would be a lot nicer if you just changed a few things..." Did several thousand people from around the world really put their time and effort into reviving an obscure TV show on expensive, pre paid DVD's with no guaranty of production just because said obscure TV show was pretty good but could have been better? :roll: Too many of my favorite programs were ruined when some smart-ass network exec, hot-shot star, holier-than-thou producer, etc. decided on a brilliant plan to "improve" the show. In some ways it was a blessing that MSCL didn't last long enough for anyone to "improve" it beyond all recognition. Bottom line: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
the only reason the parents were in it so much is because Claire Danes couldnt work such long hours cos she was too young.
Patty and Graham bolted on to fill in for a few minutes of screen time Claire couldn't fill? Open your eyes, man! You don't make as carefully planned a storyline as MSCL's and then toss in two major characters on a lark--it's obvious that they were key players from the beginning--in my not-so-humble opinion... :)
I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.
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I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.
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Post by K-man » Jul 26th 2002, 4:27 pm

I think Patty and Graham were as much a part of the show as anyone else. Well; maybe Patty more-so because of her mother/daughter relationship with Angela. Patty was such a strong personality within the Chase Family (possibly overbearing at times) I feel she was an absolutely necessary part of Angela's personal development and growth and after all...isn't that basically what My So Called Life was all about in the first place?
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Post by nkatsa » Sep 10th 2002, 3:28 pm

I definitely appreciate the adult issues more as I've gotten older, and i think it did add a lot to the show. And i think it broadens the audience a little more (my parents could relate to them, and graham and patty helped me relate to my parents), and helps depict parent/child relationships very realistically, which a lot of shows don't do. And it did it in a very clever way by paralleling the child/parent experiences.

"Father Figures" is in my humble opinion, an incredible episode. I don't know about the rest of you, but I could definitely relate, and the same things happened between me and my dad. That necessary temporary falling out, and that moment when your parents become people, and not Gods... that really got me.

Angela: I thought you were on my side.
Graham: I'm not on anyone's side.
Patty: Graham, grow up, choose a side.
Thanks for posting that. definitely a classic. ;)
I bet you can actually die of embarrassment. I bet it's been medically proven.

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Re: PATTY AND GRAHAM SUCK!!

Post by So-Called Loon » Oct 26th 2002, 2:49 am

Tyler Durden wrote:Patty and Graham really annoy me. I find myself fast forwarding through the tape when they come on. I know there are reasons for them having to be in it so much (Claire Danes too young to work loads). But, quite frankly i think that the show would be much better off without them, or any older people for that matter. Anyone agree?
:shock: Not a chance! The entire cast was not only perfectly chosen, but absolutely necessary!
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Post by So-Called Loon » Oct 26th 2002, 2:54 am

"Father Figures" is in my humble opinion, an incredible episode.
Not that all the episodes weren't brilliant, but Father Figures had some exceptional undercurrents.
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patty and graham rule!

Post by likelife » Nov 14th 2002, 5:17 pm

i agree with all of the folks out there who think that patty and graham are essential parts of the show. i, too, have appreciated their scenes more, the older i've gotten. when mscl aired on mtv (saturday nights when i was a junior in high school) i would get my dad to tape the episodes while i was at my boyfriend's house. then on sunday afternoons my dad and i would watch the show together and sometimes BOTH end up crying. i'm not sure we could have found a mutual love for the show if it hadn't included patty and graham.
my little pet peeve concerning people who bitch about the parents is that nobody seems to want to give patty a break! yeah, she nags and she's a control freak and sometimes her insecurities get the best of her and she ends up saying something she shouldn't...but that's what happens to EVERYONE!! why must we give the mother such a hard time? i guess it's a sore spot for mebecause she reminds me a lot of my mother and though they both drive me crazy sometimes, i see where they are coming from now, more than i ever could in high school.
to me, patty is a positive role model as a strong woman who manages to both a bread winner, career woman, and good mother. this multi-faceted model is not one that is well-promoted in our society. if you love angela you have to appreciate patty and graham because they are (in the plot of mscl, at least) the ones who helped her to become the awesome young woman that she was.

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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 14th 2002, 5:36 pm

I agree - it's too easy to accuse Patty of being the stick in the mud. If you look at the situation and the way the family interacts, Patty is the aggressive one because Graham isn't. He loves Patty and their daughters, but he sits back - you know: whatever happens, happens.

Why else do you think Patty has to be the mean one, as she puts it? Because Graham won't.

I realize that is a gross oversimplicifaction of the situation, but if you keep that in mind as you watch Patty it makes sense.

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Post by So-Called Loon » Nov 15th 2002, 3:20 am

Some of Patty's frustrating overintensity simply comes from the circumstances of the particular piece of the family's history that we're seeing.

I had the impression that their lives were in a pretty intense period. Nothing to indicate she wouldn't relax in times when the family as a whole was having easier times.
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in closing

Post by likelife » Nov 18th 2002, 6:47 pm

i guess the point that is most resounding to me re: are patty and graham worth watching, are they annoying, what's the deal? is that for me, the show is so multi-faceted that at times it serves different purposes. i love the presence of the parents and the supporting caracter roles. i think that they make the show more real, more interesting, and thus allow mscl to appeal to a wider audience.
BUT, i'll be the first to admit that sometimes, i pick an episode to watch based only on its teenage romantic drama elements.... and yes i do rewind the scene where jordan takes angela's hand as they walk down the hall to "go somewhere"...

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Post by TomSpeed » Feb 6th 2003, 6:11 pm

I'll just bump this thread just a bit.

MSCL without Patty and Graham? Not a chance. The show simply would not work. Plus, without Patty and Graham, ABC would not have bought 19 episodes.

Additionally, I'll echo the comments of others -- children do not grow up in a vacuum.
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Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
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Post by likelife » Feb 6th 2003, 9:24 pm

you are right, tomspeed. i think that the fact that mscl had such a variety of central characters made it appeal to a wider audience. i also think that patty and graham specifically are very important to the show because the give us a context (i.e. "stuff" instead of vacuum) in which to put what we know about angela. aha! so THIS might have influenced what angela did here, and so on.

IMHO, patty and graham bring a lot of humor to the show also. most of scenes that make me laugh in the show are the scenes between the chases.

if we are to see the show as one which chronicles the self-actualization and self-growth of angela chase, how would we be able to do that without seeing her role model and the very people against whom she is trying to rebel?

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Post by nkatsa » Mar 22nd 2003, 7:37 am

i agree about the parents actually adding a lot of humor to the show, which is kind of ironic when you think about it since it seems like a weird role to play... but when the teenagers are all full of angst that they hope they'll just outgrow, it always was pretty funny to cut to the grown-ups that are still going through some of the exact same things. :) it added a lot of layers of depth to everything, as well as just making it weirdly funny to see. ;) "Oh god... i hate being called to the principal." :lol:

just to add to the discussion about patty getting the short end of the stick... i loved patty and graham, and i think there were a lot of moments where patty's real humanity came shining through and just made me want to cry. the end of the pilot, for example, when angela's talking about how "for awhile she was looking for her real parents... i guess that's what everyone's looking for." And it always kinda tears up my heart to hear her shake her head and say "I know she loves you more." *sigh*
I bet you can actually die of embarrassment. I bet it's been medically proven.

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