Does anybody like Jordan Catalano?

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
Dufusyte
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Does anybody like Jordan Catalano?

Post by Dufusyte » Jun 17th 2000, 2:58 am

That guy is a no good creep! I wish Angela would get over him. When she rides off with him at the end, it is a very bittersweet ending: I'm happy she finally got what she wanted (to date Jordan), but I'm sad that she picked such a loser guy.

Does anybody really like Jordan? Does anybody really think he will do good for Angela? She is like a sheep riding in a car with a wolf.

Beth Addis
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Re: Does anybody like Jordan Catalano?

Post by Beth Addis » Jun 17th 2000, 11:07 am

The fact that she only liked him for his looks and his "I need saving" appeal shows that she should have realised that as far as personality goes there was little of it. But there are two types of people in this, those who are intellectually stimulating yet are as exciting as scrabble, and those who look good, are rebellious yet have the conversation skills of a table. And for a well-brought up middle-class fifteen year old a guy with life-experience and sex appeal is bound to win, whether or not he acts like a sh*t. Therefore, he may not do here any good but he'll definetily make her life a little more exciting than Brian would. In my humble opinion. Beth

Dufusyte
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But are you happy when she rides off with him?

Post by Dufusyte » Jun 17th 2000, 6:32 pm

The question is, are you happy when she rides off with him? As for me, I am filled with dread, saying to myself that she is making a big mistake and fearing that she is going to get herself into alot of trouble and a world of hurt. So when she rides off, I'm like, "Girl, you are making such a big mistake."

Jack
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Re: But are you happy when she rides off with him?

Post by Jack » Jun 17th 2000, 8:30 pm

I don't think she's going to end up in "a lot of trouble and a world of hurt".
Jordan Catalano is not a trouble-maker. He picks on no one and doesn't
involve himself in illegal activities or even harmless mischief. Angela has a
much greater probability of getting in trouble hanging around Rayanne.
Remember the pilot? I think, ultimately, she would become disillusioned
and bored with Jordan, and move on. Who knows, at that point, maybe
he'd pursue her, once he realized what he had. In fact, in the final episode,
it seems like he had realized that.

As much as I'd like to see her end up with Brian, realistically, it's just not
feasable at this moment in her life (or I should say that moment, it was
many years ago). She and Brian are too much like brother and sister.
Now that could change if they don't see each other for several years, like
when they both go off to different colleges. There's a great deal of change
people go through between 18 and 22. In some respect, they'd be
strangers (with a connected past) and could almost start over. I've seen
things like that actually play out in real life.

It does make for an interesting "What if?" scenario. Unfortunately,
since the show suffered a premature death, we can only speculate.
Unless Winnie Holzman tells us. She's the creator, so if she said
that "that was going to happen" or "this was going to happen",
I guess that'd be the final word on it.

Jack

oldguy
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Interesting conversation

Post by oldguy » Jun 18th 2000, 3:04 am

This is interesting ---- usually Jordan is very much adored and
fawned over by the female fans of MSCL --- So it's kind of fun
to hear a different view. But honestly I don't think he's all
that bad of a guy. I also don't see him as boring (although as
a male heterosexual I might not be qualified to comment on that).
I think Jordan is pretty cool --- somebody who'd be fun to hang
out with (whether you're male or female) --- although I suppose if
you're a woman and you're going to get emotionally attached, that
could be trouble.

Anyway, I'm curious why Jordan would be viewed as boring. I mean,
why does a guy have to be Mr. Conversation to be enjoyable to spend
time with? From a man's perspective, an overly talkative woman can be
pretty annoying --- so someone who is a little bit quiet is a breath of
fresh air.

Jack
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Re: Interesting conversation

Post by Jack » Jun 18th 2000, 3:32 am

I don't think Jordan is really boring, but I think Angela would eventually
becomed bored with him, because she does need someone who's more
of a conversationalist. This is apparent in the final episode when Jordan
uses Brian's words and Angela says, "Good, now we can have a conversation."
"We just did", Jordan replied. To which Angela responds, "You can't just
leave a person with that!" "You can't?" Jordan asks. Angela needs more
than what Jordan can give her, at least at that stage in their lives. Rayanne
and Jordan could have a better conversation, because they move in the
same crowd and communicate with the same people, attend the same
parties. In many respects, Rayanne and Jordan see the world the same
way because of how they were raised. Rayanne has an irresponsible
mother, much more a big sister than a mom. Jordan has been hit by
his dad, and I believe it's been implied he's been thrown out a few times.
His dad hasn't hit him in awhile, because the last time he did, Jordan
"threw a chair at him". The world that both Rayanne and Jordan live in
is quite alien to the world Angela, Brian, and Sharon have grown up in.
I think that alone would create quite a few problems in a relationship
between Angela and Jordan. They would try to change each other too
much. They've already tried. Angela trying to get Jordan to quite cutting
class and signing him up for tutoring. Jordan trying to get Angela to have
sex with him, because in his world if you don't, you're "not normal".
Anyways, that's my take on it. Back to you.

Jack

mia
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Re: Interesting conversation

Post by mia » Jun 18th 2000, 4:52 pm

I agree that Angela would eventually become bored and dissatisfied with Jordan, but I think at that point in her life, she needs that relationship. She needs to come to the inevitable conclusion herself, not be guided there by well-meaning friends and family. Maybe choosing him over Brian was the wrong decision, but it was her decision to make, and besides, who ever said teenagers always make the right choices? By the way, have you listened to the audio quotes? Hearing the emotion in Brian's voice in the conversations between him and Angela - how much he cares for her - and hearing how oblivious she is to his feelings, it's heart breaking. But still, at the point she's at in her life, choosing Jordan over Brian is the expected choice. Well, enogh of this stream-of-consciousness rambling...

You know, with your <font color=red>hair</font color=red> like that? It hurts to look at you.

Jack
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Re: Interesting conversation

Post by Jack » Jun 18th 2000, 8:40 pm

Yes, Mia, I have listened to the audio quotes and the emotion in Brian's voice is
heart-breaking. It's apparent when you see the videos, but you hear it more-so
when you're not distracted by the moving-pictures (not that the moving-picture's
a distraction, but -- you know what I mean). Especially, during Everybody Hurts,
when Brian says, "Angela..." (the second time, after she falls down), and Angela
says, "I gotta go", then Brian says, very softly, "Okay." His delivery of her name
and 'okay' are absolutely heart-wrenching.

Interestingly enough, you have to wonder if Angela's truly that oblivous to Brian's
feelings, which seem obvious to everyone (To quote Sharon from Strangers In The
House, "...it's so obvious he's completely in love with you."), or does she, on
some level, know. I bring this up, because, repeatedly throughout the series,
she leaves or dodges when the moment might be revealed. In the pilot for
example: "I gotta go". In Guns and Gossip, Brian: "You didn't care what
damage it did to anyone." Angela: "What damage did it do to you?" Then
she turns and leaves before he could answer the question, though we know
he wouldn't. In Why Jordan Can't Read, when she's waiting for her 'big' date,
she tells Brian that Jordan is coming over and then asks Brian to leave. The
tone is not 'matter-of-fact' or excited and happy like it would be if delivered
to any of her other friends, but rather nervous and cagey, as though she knew
saying this to him was risking opening a Pandora's Box of emotion. And then
the one that says it all is Life Of Brian. Brian breaks off a date with Delia to
go to the dance with Angela. When this becomes apparent to Angela, she asks,
"Brian, what do you think is happening here?" And then after she calls him
heartless, she quickly leaves. And then proceeds to act clueless about his
feelings through the rest of the series (It was enough to make me want to shout,
"Angela, what do YOU think is happening here?!?!"), until the end when she had
to face it. To face Brian, and to force him to face her.

Episode 19, the final scene: Angela commands, "Brian -- look at me." Whatever
was going to go down, she wasn't about to run away, she was going to face it,
and make him face it. Brian -- look at me.

Okay, Mia my dear, or Pa...uh...I mean Oldguy, or whoever else wants to chime in
-- back to you.

"Brilliant Story Analyst" Jack
(If I waited for any of you to call me brilliant, I'd be waitin' til it got mighty cold down
where the demons live.)

richard
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Re: abused

Post by richard » Jun 18th 2000, 11:03 pm

I don't think Jordan is as evil as you seem to think, he has had an unlucky life, and has been brought up to expect certain things from girls. He obvioudly seems to truly love Angela, look at what he does, although he tries to break up with her for not sleeping with him he eventually gives in and tries to get back with her, he isn't violent, he is actually quite kind, in his way - look at the way he helped Rickie when he was homeless, he even lit a candle for him.

It isn't his fault that he didn't have a loveing family, or that he doesn't talk much, that's just him, and Angela seems willing to accept that.

And on the subject of Brian- Angela quite blatently does not love him, yes he is a nice guy, the sort of person that you could take home to meet your mother, but he is not for her. I don't think there was ever any possibility of a relationship there.

I'm sure that Angela knew what Brian felt towards her before the letter, but isn't it so much easier just to ignore it? she would have done this until she couldn't, and when she saw how upset Brian was she remembered what a friend he was, and didn't want to loose him, so had to be nice.

I hope this all makes sense.

And it's nice to know we have such a sex-goddess among us!!

Richard

mia
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I'm not sure what your issue is, but get over it.

Post by mia » Jun 18th 2000, 11:09 pm

Where did you ever get the idea that Jordan would abuse Angela? True, he was often insensitive, but what do you expect from a high school student who's been left back twice? That doesn't mean he's gonna abuse her. I think Jordan does really care for Angela, he just doesn't know how to exspress it. And that's his problem.

You know, with your <font color=red>hair</font color=red> like that? It hurts to look at you.

mia
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Re: Interesting conversation

Post by mia » Jun 18th 2000, 11:21 pm

Yes, I agree, she was, on some level, avoiding it. And I can relate. On too many occassions, my "guy friends" have fallen for me. And instead of facing the issue, I have carefully skirted it. It's easy for women to say "Oh, if someone comes on to me that I'm not interested in, I'll just call it off." But when it actually happens, it's really hard. Because emotions, and everything else, become involved. I'm going through the same thing right now. Eek. But my point is: Angela probably, on some level, recognized what was going on with Brian, but she chose not to respond.

Your Comma Queen,
Mia

You know, with your <font color=red>hair</font color=red> like that? It hurts to look at you.

Dufusyte
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abused

Post by Dufusyte » Jun 18th 2000, 11:57 pm

Speaking of abuse (Jordan's dad hitting him), Angel reminds me of a battered wife type of woman. There is a type of woman (all too common) that consistently picks men who will abuse her. She gets out of one abusive relationship, and promptly finds another man who will abuse her. These women can often find good wholesome caring men, but for some reason they do not like these men, and they always prefer the dark dangerous men, and they end up getting their dose of danger and abuse.

Angela has a nice caring wholesome guy in Brian; he is not a perfect guy, but at least he is full of good will towards Angela, and he clearly wants the best for her and will not try to do anything that would hurt her. But she does not like him. No, Angela likes the dark and dangerous Jordan, who is a selfish sex-monger, who only wants to use women, and discards them when they no longer hold his fickle attention. He really does not care at all for Angela, and he will seduce/abuse her for his own satisfaction until he moves on to seduce his next victim.

If most MSCL fan-girls are ga-ga over Jordan, it just goes to show how misoriented the female psyche often is, and how easily they can be hypnotized by any snake-like creature, of which Jordan Catalano is a prime specimen.

Dufusyte
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Can you say "emotional abuse"

Post by Dufusyte » Jun 19th 2000, 2:48 am

One word: "Betrayal."

Wouldn't you call that emotional abuse? And Angela goes back to him for a second dose... Pathetic, eh?

mia
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Re: Can you say "emotional abuse"

Post by mia » Jun 19th 2000, 10:56 am

She's a love struck teenager. It may be pathetic, but it's by no means unusual. I think you're forgeting that this is high school. We're talking about boys and girls; they haven't emotionally matured yet. They aren't going to handle things the way adults would, for the most part. Could Jordan be nicer? Yes, but he's just a boy. A typical boy. And Angela's a typical girl, who thinks she's in love.

You know, with your <font color=red>hair</font color=red> like that? It hurts to look at you.

ataris
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Re: abused

Post by ataris » Jun 23rd 2000, 6:16 pm

Did you ever see the last episode? Do you remember when Jordan was talking to Patty? It's obvious that he cares for her. And if he didn't care for her why would he go through all the trouble of getting Brian to write him the letter. If Jordan just wanted sex he would have gone to some other person to get it, he found out early that Angela wouldn't just give it to him. And Brian hurt her too, he's the one that started the rumor in Guns and Gossip about her having sex with Jordan. Jordan isn't such a bad person, I don't know where you got that. Maybe if you went back and re-watch some of the episodes you would see. It's weird because most of the people on this board like Brian better then Jordan. There are only a few of us who are on Jordan's side.

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