Jordan:Angela::Angela:Brian

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
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sirhansirhan
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Jordan:Angela::Angela:Brian

Post by sirhansirhan » Nov 30th 2003, 2:43 pm

I love me some burritos.
Last edited by sirhansirhan on Dec 1st 2003, 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hunee
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Post by Hunee » Dec 1st 2003, 12:32 am

never mind :roll:
Last edited by Hunee on Dec 1st 2003, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
so make the best of this test, and dont ask why
its not a question, but a lesson learned in time its something unpredictable, but in the end is right i hope you had the time of your life

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Post by sirhansirhan » Dec 1st 2003, 10:14 am

Today is an excellent day for a burrito.
Last edited by sirhansirhan on Dec 1st 2003, 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by grim4746 » Dec 1st 2003, 7:35 pm

sirhansirhan wrote: Jordan liked Angela for her "soul"? This is high school. Besides, Angela always acted like a moron around Jordan. He just went after her because he thought that he could get sex.
I don't think it's so black and white as that. While I doubt Jordan would be drawn to Angela because of her 'soul' (at least not knowingly or exclusively) I don't think his attraction was based on the likelihood of getting sex either. Jordan isn't the smartest guy but he knows the score when it comes to girls and he knew all along that Angela wasn't likely to put out. Plus I think if he was only after sex there would have been quite a few others he could have gone after and had an easier time of it (rayanne comes to mind).
If sex was all he wanted to begin with then the horrible relationship they began and the lack of sex probably wouldn't have been enough of a reason for him to stick around. I think that he was drawn to Angela's personality and became increasingly attracted to her in a way that had nothing to do with sex. The classroom scene in "Self Esteem" about the flaws and love and all that, helps to show Jordan's developing depth of feeling for Angela. As well if he was just after sex he'd probably have cut his losses after "pressure" rather than continuing to act like Angela's boyfriend even in an unofficial way. And if sex was all he wanted he certainly could have skipped the off screen heart to heart with Patty in "In Dreams". Hmm, can't believe i'm defending Jordan Catalano. I feel as though somehow I've been tricked.:scratchinghead:

In general Jordan doesn't deserve Angela. Angela doesn't deserve Brian. Brian certainly doesn't deserve Delia. But as luck would have it things like love and relationships aren't doled out based on who is most deserving or who has earned it

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Post by sirhansirhan » Dec 1st 2003, 7:47 pm

Here is a drawing of a burrito:

0=====0

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Post by grim4746 » Dec 1st 2003, 11:12 pm

Now that all the other posts have been edited so that I'm the only one discussing the topic, I really feel like i've been tricked. :blushblue: :furious:
And I'm left with the impression that burritos are overrated. :-P

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Post by starbug » Dec 2nd 2003, 5:21 am

WTF?
:shock:

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Post by starbug » Dec 2nd 2003, 5:21 am

I was enjoying that discussion...

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Post by sirhansirhan » Dec 2nd 2003, 8:05 am

Hi everyone involved-

Just to clear things up, and maybe to save myself some credibility in the forum, this discussion used to be about how Angela is wrong for Brian in the same way that Jordan is wrong for Angela. The discussion quickly went off in a direction that involved my trumpeting something that I don't entirely believe in (the assumption that Jordan went after Angela for sex, and not because he actually cared all that much about her), so I decided to change it to something that I do believe in--burritos.

But yes, even though I was intentionally playing devil's advocate, I was enjoying the discussion, too, and did not mean to make mad anyone involved.

As consolation, here is a slightly better drawing of a burrito.

_________
()________()


Is that really a better drawing? Maybe it is just different.

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Burrito

Post by sirhansirhan » Dec 2nd 2003, 2:09 pm

[quote="grim4746"]In general Jordan doesn't deserve Angela. Angela doesn't deserve Brian. Brian certainly doesn't deserve Delia. But as luck would have it things like love and relationships aren't doled out based on who is most deserving or who has earned it[/quote]

I think that Brian does/would deserve Delia, if only he hadn't sold her out for Angela. That is the only flaw in the Delia/Brian mechanic. If Angela only hadn't butted in, they would have been great for each other.

You see how I'm trying to get this back on track? I'm so well disciplined.

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Post by Guest » Dec 2nd 2003, 2:29 pm

Angela doesn't deserve Brian.

Yeah,that's a funny one.What the hell does that term mean anyway?She doesn't deserve him,he doesn't deserve her?What exactly do you have to do to deserve someone?And while I can certainly see why that dicksmack Catalano doesn't deserve Angela,I don't get why is Brian categorized as someone Angela doesn't deserve?

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Post by starbug » Dec 2nd 2003, 2:42 pm

I suppose I feel like Angela and Brian are both sort of as bad as each other. In that sense, maybe they deserve each other. I mean, I like them both but I can see that Angela treated Brian like crap. So in that sense she doesn't 'deserve' someone who would bend over backwards to please her.

On the other hand, Brian did some pretty reprehensible stuff. he started rumours about her, he taped her friend having sex with her 'boyfriend' and then told people about it so they knew before she did, he hung around her like some kind of stalker (that's been done to me and I can totally understand why she might be driven to be rude to him). So in a sense, he doesn't 'deserve' to get Angela.

I do agree that there is a sort of synergie to the relationships between the two characters. Angela lusts after the unobtainable Jordan, and Brian lusts after the unobtainable Angela... but Angela and Jordan are not even on the same plane of existence. When you really think about it they have nothing at all in common, Jordan treated her like crap, etc.

I don't know the answer but I certainly see sirhansirhan's point.

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Post by Guest » Dec 2nd 2003, 3:34 pm

I do agree that there is a sort of synergie to the relationships between the two characters. Angela lusts after the unobtainable Jordan, and Brian lusts after the unobtainable Angela... but Angela and Jordan are not even on the same plane of existence. When you really think about it they have nothing at all in common, Jordan treated her like crap, etc.
I don't know,I really don't think that Angela and Jordan are all that different.I mean,of course their circumstances are very different,but as far as their personality,I think they are quite similar( or better to say not all that different)

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Post by sirhansirhan » Dec 2nd 2003, 8:16 pm

It's funny how this evolved into a philosophical discussion (regarding the first Guest post)*. I also like the use of the word "dicksmack."

I'm not saying that Angela and Jordan can't/won't/didn't work out, at least to some degree, and what they had is very representative of pretty much every high school-based relationship I have ever witnessed. They are just deluded about the fact that they are in no way right for one another. After all, Angela's key characteristic in introspection, and Jordan's in complete obliviousness to morality or societal constraints. Much like most high schoolers I've met, they are fascinated with the fact that they are old enough to get away with this kind of thing; not to mention the fact that they like that someone else is willing to go along with their scheming.

And I can also agree with the argument that Angela and Brian have equally wronged and can form a solid relationship as a result, but I think that this line of thinking is rooted in the fact that the viewer is meant to identify with Angela, and if Angela and Brian were to get in a relationship, Angela would likely benefit from it more than Brian (akin to the Angela and Jordan relationship, see?), and, as a result, the pairing of Angela and Brian seems like a good one, because we as the viewer want what is best for Angela.

This is not to mention the fact that I think that average MSCL-head identifies a little too much with Brian (I'm no exception), which leads us to blindly want him to get what he wants as well, similar to the way that we all wanted Angela and Jordan to get together before we found out that Jordan was a dingleberry.



*Between my inability to figure out how to quote properly and my penchant for discourses on burritos, I bet I look like a crazy person. Sigh.

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Re: Burrito

Post by grim4746 » Dec 3rd 2003, 1:57 am

sirhansirhan wrote:I think that Brian does/would deserve Delia, if only he hadn't sold her out for Angela. That is the only flaw in the Delia/Brian mechanic. If Angela only hadn't butted in, they would have been great for each other.
I had the impression that Brian only 'liked' Delia because she liked him. From my experience relationships based on such things are doomed. Brian's wallpaper analogy showed us that he didn't desire Delia that much but just really needed 'wallpaper' pretty badly. When one person in a relationship is only there until something better comes along, the relationship is a bad idea and probably won't be that fulfilling for either party while it is going on.

Here is some help on using the quote function. http://www.mscl.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... highlight=

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