What did he mean?

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S&F

What did he mean?

Post by S&F » Nov 18th 2003, 3:15 pm

What exactly does Catalano mean when he says to Rayanne;"Sometimes it's like I really think I know her and then it'll be like we're total strangers?

When did he think he knew her(Angela) and when were they like strangers?

Another question;

What is Angela's perception of Jordan's feelings?I know she lives in some kind of fantasy world where Jordan is this ideal guy, but I also know that she can tell the difference between dreams and reality.What I'm trying to ask -is she even aware that Jordan cares for her?Because it sure didn't look like it when she was flirting with Corey.


One more;
How does Jordan know that Angela knows about the "incident"

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MarsJunkie
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Post by MarsJunkie » Nov 18th 2003, 4:05 pm

~I think what Jordan means is that she is nice to him and does anything he wants (except for that whole sex thing) and after she found out they had sex, she was different. She didn't care what he thought anymore.
~I think that she thinks Jordan is not very in touch with his emotions.
~At times I think Jordan does know that Angela knows he and Rayanne had sex, and other times I don't. When he tells Rayanne that sometimes he feels like he knows Angela and sometimes he doesn't, it makes me think he might not know that she knows. (IMHO)
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Post by Jody Barsch* » Nov 25th 2003, 9:56 pm

I realize many out there will disagree, but I argue that Jordan, like Brad, “is surprisingly perceptive.” For as many times as Jordan misunderstands Angela, there are many when he does:
“What, you miss him?” Jordan understands from just a look that Angela misses Rickie and needs to be reassured by seeing him.
“I have this philosophy…” in “Life of Brian,” Jordan anticipates what Angela wants from him, and what information she is trying to get from him, and responds with a philosophy that gets him off the hook of making any more definite plans with her.
Jordan and Angela share personal information with each other early in their relationship: Jordan confides in her that he has difficulty reading, and she turns to him when she is feeing depressed and alone in “Strangers in the House.”
Although Jordan at times hurts Angela, he is aware of it and makes a start to fix things: In “Pressure” after he infers that she is, “abnormal?” he is aware of how this hurts her, and does want to take it back. This may not directly prove that he knows her, but is evidence that Jordan is aware of Angela. (YES! I know that we can argue that many times Jordan does not know what Angela needs or feels, but that does not cancel out the times when he does.)
Jordan knows her locker combination, he knows her phone number, he has seen her cry and attempted to comfort her, they have joked together (“Your mother says you like me”), he confides in her (about his band breaking up, his dream to be one of those guys who make snow, like as their job, his learning disability, his academic career, his frustrations), he learns how she feels about sex, he has seen her deal with the pressures of driving/growing up, he has seen her walk out of a class two times, they have kissed, he knows that she surprises him with little things like updates on the condition of his cuticles … He loves her, we can never say how well Jordan knows Angela because so much of their relationship is left out of the story of My So-Called Life. At the point he realizes he loves her, Jordan himself isn’t quite able to say why, but perhaps it is enough to say that he loves her, and however you may rate it, Jordan and Angela do have a relationship, and they do indeed know each other, to a degree. One important thing to remember when discussing this topic is that Jordan does not claim that he has known her all along, but that sometimes he feels like he really knows her – from their misunderstandings and awkward exchanges he has come to know and trust Angela Chase.

“When were they like total strangers?”
I think what Jordan is referring to here is Angela’s recent liberation from her obsession. Just as Jordan has come to know Angela as a person and “a friend, or whatever,” he has also come to know her as a constant in his life, someone who is always there for him to listen to him and wait around for him, until one day… As discussed on another strand, it is reasonable to believe that Jordan has seen Angela talking with Cory more than just the one time we witness it, and he is noticing that he no longer has her undivided attention, but probably it is more that she seems to be trying to make him jealous that is the side of her that seems strange to him. Even after they broke up, they were still seeing ach other everyday, and it was evident that they were both still interested in each other (“I’ll see you tomorrow” ‘”you must have me, as your own, you can’t live another day knowing others could possess me” “it would be different if we were… but now you’re just a friend, or whatever” “you could have sex with me if you really wanted to help” ) and now she is ignoring him in the halls.

“Is she even aware that Jordan cares for her? Because it sure didn't look like it when she was flirting with Corey”
I would say that she is flirting with Cory exactly because she knows he cares for her. You do not try to make someone jealous if they don’t care about you, I doesn’t work that way.

How does Jordan know that Angela knows about the "incident"
I’m not sure that he does. Jordan has his own moral code: he never lies, he approaches Rayanne after they slept together to check in (his actions in this scene indicate that his is somewhat of a ritual for him – an obligation after a hook-up, and he feels bad about sleeping with Rayanne (who he really doesn’t like) rather than Angela. I don’t think he knows that Angela found out when he approaches her with a pen, but rather that he is full of regret and wants to reach out to her in a way to refortify their relationship. It is an act of conscience that motivates the pen conversation.

MarsJunkie wrote:~and after she found out they had sex, she was different. She didn't care what he thought anymore.
~When he tells Rayanne that sometimes he feels like he knows Angela and sometimes he doesn't, it makes me think he might not know that she knows. (IMHO)
Re-screen this episode, your sequence of events is off.
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Post by Guest » Nov 27th 2003, 4:12 pm

Jody Barsch;
How does Jordan know that Angela knows about the "incident"
I’m not sure that he does. Jordan has his own moral code: he never lies, he approaches Rayanne after they slept together to check in (his actions in this scene indicate that his is somewhat of a ritual for him – an obligation after a hook-up, and he feels bad about sleeping with Rayanne (who he really doesn’t like) rather than Angela. I don’t think he knows that Angela found out when he approaches her with a pen, but rather that he is full of regret and wants to reach out to her in a way to refortify their relationship. It is an act of conscience that motivates the pen conversation.
Doesn't he get that from Brian in the hallway?Because Brian's all like "It doesn't matter who has the stupid tape....." and Jordan's like" So,what was on the tape?"And tehn we cut to another scene and we really don't know if Brian told him or not.But I think he did.

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Post by Guest » Nov 27th 2003, 4:21 pm

Jody Barsch;
‘”you must have me, as your own, you can’t live another day knowing others could possess me”
Do you think there's any truth in that?

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Post by Guest » Nov 28th 2003, 6:37 pm

Anonymous wrote:Jody Barsch;

And tehn we cut to another scene and we really don't know if Brian told him or not.But I think he did.
I disagree that Brian told Jordan. A good friend of mine dislikes MSCL because of the show's tendency to set up difficult and awkward situations and then cut to another scene without showing how these scenes are resolved, this scene in particular bugs him for that reason. While the scene does end without closure, I do not think that Brian Krakow stood there in the halls and explained to Jordan Catalano that he video taped him having sex in a parking lot. When Jordan asks about the tape, he clearly does not know that others know about him and Rayane (or at least that it was recorded) and Brian kind of shrugs it off and stuffs the tape away, indicating that he was only willing to address the issue with Jordan when he was under the impression that Jordan was going to confront him about it in a seemingly hostile way.

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Post by Jody Barsch* » Nov 29th 2003, 2:12 pm

I disagree that Brian told Jordan. A good friend of mine dislikes MSCL because of the show's tendency to set up difficult and awkward situations and then cut to another scene without showing how these scenes are resolved, this scene in particular bugs him for that reason. While the scene does end without closure, I do not think that Brian Krakow stood there in the halls and explained to Jordan Catalano that he video taped him having sex in a parking lot. When Jordan asks about the tape, he clearly does not know that others know about him and Rayane (or at least that it was recorded) and Brian kind of shrugs it off and stuffs the tape away, indicating that he was only willing to address the issue with Jordan when he was under the impression that Jordan was going to confront him about it in a seemingly hostile way.[/quote]

Um, that was me, I keep forgetting to log-in.

I do not think that it is until after (or during) the pen conversation that Jordan realizes that Angela is aware that anything happened between him and Rayanne.
Kickstart The Riches movie!

Whatever

Post by Whatever » Nov 30th 2003, 1:25 pm

Jody Barsch* wrote:I disagree that Brian told Jordan. A good friend of mine dislikes MSCL because of the show's tendency to set up difficult and awkward situations and then cut to another scene without showing how these scenes are resolved, this scene in particular bugs him for that reason. While the scene does end without closure, I do not think that Brian Krakow stood there in the halls and explained to Jordan Catalano that he video taped him having sex in a parking lot. When Jordan asks about the tape, he clearly does not know that others know about him and Rayane (or at least that it was recorded) and Brian kind of shrugs it off and stuffs the tape away, indicating that he was only willing to address the issue with Jordan when he was under the impression that Jordan was going to confront him about it in a seemingly hostile way.
Um, that was me, I keep forgetting to log-in.

I do not think that it is until after (or during) the pen conversation that Jordan realizes that Angela is aware that anything happened between him and Rayanne.[/quote]

So why does Jordan approach her in the first place?I mean if he doesn't know that she knows,why is he acting so puppy like?

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Post by Guest » Dec 19th 2003, 5:17 pm

I’m not sure that he does. Jordan has his own moral code: he never lies, he approaches Rayanne after they slept together to check in (his actions in this scene indicate that his is somewhat of a ritual for him – an obligation after a hook-up, and he feels bad about sleeping with Rayanne (who he really doesn’t like) rather than Angela.
You say that Jordan doesn't really like Rayanne.I wouldn't say that.He WAS attracted to her that night when they had sex.I know that's hard to accept.But the truth is that Jordan Catalano does NOT have eyes only for Angela.

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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Dec 19th 2003, 5:38 pm

Anonymous wrote:You say that Jordan doesn't really like Rayanne.I wouldn't say that.He WAS attracted to her that night when they had sex.I know that's hard to accept.But the truth is that Jordan Catalano does NOT have eyes only for Angela.
Just because Jordan is attracted to Rayanne doesn't mean that he likes her. It is very possible to be attracted to people who you don't like. If you watch the interaction between Rayanne and Jordan in earlier episodes, at best he tolerates her as an acquaintance. By the time Rayanne starts campaigning to join the band, it is clear that he doesn't want her around. I don't think it's a matter of Jordan LIKING a lot of other people - he is a high school boy so he is attracted to anything that moves and wants to have lots of sex (you know, because he isn't "abnormal" :wink: ).
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Post by Guest » Dec 19th 2003, 6:00 pm

candygirl wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You say that Jordan doesn't really like Rayanne.I wouldn't say that.He WAS attracted to her that night when they had sex.I know that's hard to accept.But the truth is that Jordan Catalano does NOT have eyes only for Angela.
Just because Jordan is attracted to Rayanne doesn't mean that he likes her. It is very possible to be attracted to people who you don't like. If you watch the interaction between Rayanne and Jordan in earlier episodes, at best he tolerates her as an acquaintance. By the time Rayanne starts campaigning to join the band, it is clear that he doesn't want her around. I don't think it's a matter of Jordan LIKING a lot of other people - he is a high school boy so he is attracted to anything that moves and wants to have lots of sex (you know, because he isn't "abnormal" :wink: ).
I don't know how to explain this but Jordan doesn't really strikes me as a "horny guy".That probably sounds stupid but I think he has sex not because he's attracted to everything that moves( because then he would hump Brain in tutoring room) but because that's just something "that you do" and it all adds to the numbers and popularity.

Come to think about it, the way he looked at Brian in IDBR was a bit horny :lol:

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Post by grim4746 » Dec 19th 2003, 9:52 pm

candygirl wrote:Just because Jordan is attracted to Rayanne doesn't mean that he likes her. It is very possible to be attracted to people who you don't like. If you watch the interaction between Rayanne and Jordan in earlier episodes, at best he tolerates her as an acquaintance. By the time Rayanne starts campaigning to join the band, it is clear that he doesn't want her around. I don't think it's a matter of Jordan LIKING a lot of other people - he is a high school boy so he is attracted to anything that moves and wants to have lots of sex (you know, because he isn't "abnormal" :wink: ).
I agree, Jordan clearly didn't like Rayanne very much and I don't even think he was even really attracted to her. I think he just wanted sex in a drunk teenage boy kind of way plus he was feeling sad and confused about Angela and for a lot of people sex is a good distraction/cure all and he knew that Rayanne would have sex with him. I do agree with Anonymous Guest that Jordan doesn't "have eyes only for Angela" but just maybe his heart (if in fact he has one) is only for Angela, at least temporarily. I'm sure there are other girls he'd have sex with but probably not other girls he'd walk through the halls holding hands with, or stop by her house and have a talk with her mom about his feelings for her.

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Post by Guest » Dec 20th 2003, 4:48 am

grim4746 wrote:I agree, Jordan clearly didn't like Rayanne very much and I don't even think he was even really attracted to her. I think he just wanted sex in a drunk teenage boy kind of way plus he was feeling sad and confused about Angela and for a lot of people sex is a good distraction/cure all and he knew that Rayanne would have sex with him. I do agree with Anonymous Guest that Jordan doesn't "have eyes only for Angela" but just maybe his heart (if in fact he has one) is only for Angela, at least temporarily. I'm sure there are other girls he'd have sex with but probably not other girls he'd walk through the halls holding hands with, or stop by her house and have a talk with her mom about his feelings for her.

Why do you say "at least temporarily"?I mean, the way you guys talk about him, like he's God's gift or something.They should just get married or whatever."Maybe his heart is only for Angela":Oh please!!! :roll:

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Post by igor » Dec 20th 2003, 4:54 am

Anonymous wrote:
I’m not sure that he does. Jordan has his own moral code: he never lies, he approaches Rayanne after they slept together to check in (his actions in this scene indicate that his is somewhat of a ritual for him – an obligation after a hook-up, and he feels bad about sleeping with Rayanne (who he really doesn’t like) rather than Angela.
You say that Jordan doesn't really like Rayanne.I wouldn't say that.He WAS attracted to her that night when they had sex.I know that's hard to accept.But the truth is that Jordan Catalano does NOT have eyes only for Angela.
Yeah,he does not have eyes only for Angela, but it's not like has eyes only for him either despite the fact that she's totally into him.
Angela : Oh, yeah? Right! And he's wearing a towel, right? See, I
had this dream last night...
Rickie : Angela...!
Angela : ...He was wearing a towel, but this really weird towel,
made of, like, saltines! And it kept crumbling...<gasp!>

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Post by grim4746 » Dec 20th 2003, 2:01 pm

Anonymous wrote:Why do you say "at least temporarily"?I mean, the way you guys talk about him, like he's God's gift or something.They should just get married or whatever."Maybe his heart is only for Angela":Oh please!!! :roll:
I say "at least temporarily" because they are in high school and have only known each other for a few months, regardless of what level of dedication they exhibit for each other at that point they could easily, and almost certainly would have moved on at some point in the future. I hardly think Jordan is a God, he's not even a better than average guy. But I do think the character cares about Angela in a way he's not likely to care about another girl until well after Angela is out of the picture. Unfortunately, he's also a big dumb jerk so his feelings for Angela aren't really 'worth' as much as they would be if he were a better person. I notice you didn't comment on the hand holding in the halls or Jordan's chat with Patty about Angela. Is that because you agree with me or because you don't see the relevance of such points?

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