2004 election

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pgh kenny
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Post by pgh kenny » Nov 3rd 2004, 2:37 pm

hmmm.... I decided to revise my comments since it doesn't seem fair to call everyone who voted for bush evil.

my new approach will be to just avoid reading newspapers because I have no desire to see the deployment of bush's 'mandate' played out over the next four years.

when i was in college 1992-1996, I never paid attention to politics or the news except to attend the occasional pro-chice rally or to protest something stupid the cornell university administration wanted to do and the world didn't come to an end.

so I think that ignoring the news for the next four years will be my path to sanity. however, would someone please send me a pm when bush is about the relaunch the involuntary draft or when he has finally bankrupted the federal government? oh and for those you that missed it, check out this link for some happiness and remember to turn on the music...

http://www.miniclip.com/dancingbush.htm

http://www.miniclip.com/hiphopdebate.htm

http://www.miniclip.com/bushaerobics.htm
Last edited by pgh kenny on Nov 4th 2004, 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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wicked
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Post by wicked » Nov 3rd 2004, 2:47 pm

Sascha (sab) wrote:CNN International just showed some interesting statistics: Not terrorism or the war in Iraq or the economy were the top concerns of the voters (like I as an "outsider" would have expected) --- no, "moral concerns" was no.1 on the agenda. Bush got re-elected because of his opinions towards same-sex marriage, stem-cell research and so on.
my hubby and I were discussing this. what on earh has happened to the seperation of church and state? Wasn't this one of the founding principels of democracy and the U.S.? it's myth as far as I can see in the political system in the US.
( this is NOT american slamming by any means!!!! "Some of my best frineds are...")
"So this is hell. I'd never have believed it. You remember all we were told about the torture-chambers, the fire and brimstone, the "burning marl." Old wive's tales! There's no need for red-hot pokers. HELL IS - OTHER PEOPLE!"

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fnordboy
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Post by fnordboy » Nov 3rd 2004, 3:08 pm

Well, I have been MIA from this board for the last week or so, but I had to come back and read the SANE thoughts of the posters on this forum.

I am absolutely stunned, frustrated, angry, and sad at what has happened in the last 24 hours. It is absolutely disgusting to me. It is true that this election was based on so-called "moral values". How you can say not giving civil rights to EVERY american is moral I don't know. I am sickened by the religious right, and middle america.

I wish I could say that things can only get better, but we are nowhere near as bad as they can (and I fear will) get. The religious are taking over this country in a way I have never seen before. :evil: Hard times are definitely coming.

My vote was cast mainly just because of the gay rights and abortion issues. Terrorism will happen at this point regardless of who is in office. And the Iraq war, as much as I oppose it, has happened and we are stuck there for a time. Kerry definitely would have handled things better than Bush, but unfortunately Kerry was inheriting a clusterF there. How some born again in middle america or the south can say that gay marriage is wrong is absolutely ridiculous. IT DOES NOT AFFECT YOU in any way shape or form. A gay poster on another forum said, "since you voted for moral values are you going to start staying married?" (paraphrased). Perfect. Completely shows the hypocrisy of the populace.

I am ashamed today to call myself an American. :cry: And please, non-americans, do not think we are all this friggin stupid.

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starbug
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Post by starbug » Nov 3rd 2004, 3:34 pm

I could cry, I really could. :cry:

Kristen and Fnordboy, you perfectly summed up my feelings on the whole thing. Plus, it is only yesterday that I was saying to a colleague that there are two really scary things about the US election (in a predictive sense).
a) the way Bush bases his policies in religion, when the point (as I understood it) of independence was at least in part to ensure separation of church and state (in rebellion from that being the status quo in the UK).
b) even if Kerry wins, the amount of votes Bush gets will be scary in itself. The more votes he gets the harder it will become for non-americans to separate the administration from the people, and that's the really sad thing. I truly believe Americans are soooo misrepresented by Bush but that's because I know lots personally. If I were an outsider in the absolute sense I might be changing my opinion right about now based on the election results. I guess external perception just isn't an issue for many americans and I can see the arguments behind that. I just don't agree with them.

I just cannot believe it. I really thought it had to be in the bag for Kerry.

pgh - you thought of trying London? OK, cheap plug for my hometown but it would be lucky to have you!

Lance - you out there? Big hugs. Man, your efforts were gargantuan.

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Nothingman
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Post by Nothingman » Nov 3rd 2004, 3:34 pm

Kristin wrote:I truly believe that in the next four years, all the lies and deceit that Bush has spoonfed the American people will rise to the surface. The s*it will hit the fan, so to speak. I'm not confident that it will result in an impeachment or resignation of Bush, but hopefully it will get the American people using their ears, eyes, and brains again.
I'm in the same boat with you on this one. What scares me is what has to happen to get people to wakeup. I think over the next few years, and certianly after this next term, Bushes actions will come into perspective for people. It will be very interesting how history judges him.
Sascha wrote:Bush got re-elected because of his opinions towards same-sex marriage, stem-cell research and so on.
Keep in mind that this is the same conservative base that agrees with Bush when he say's and opposition to the current way things are going in Iraq demoralises our troops. I can't think of anthing more demoralising than the American people stating that the war in Iraq is not their number one concern. That whether or not gays can get a marriage licience is more important than them. Excuse me?

Montana is one of the states that passed an amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. I strongly appose the amendment, but I'm not surprised the conservative, elderly, republican base of the state passed it. I'm dissapointed in my fellow Montanans today. I cannot say this enough. As far as gov't is concerned, marriage is simply a business contract between two people. It shouldn't matter who those people are providing they are both concenting of it. Morality and religion have nothing to do with a business contract. Seperation of church and state people!

My state did pass the use of marijuana for medicinal use. So apparently we don't mind liberal issues. We want more freedom and less gov't, and we get really touchy about anyone taking away our rights. We even passed an amendment that "supposedly" helps preserve our rights to hunt and fish. Even thought the amendment doesn't spell out anything that legally ensures this, it just states a general intent to preserve the heritage of it. So gov't is here to ensure the protection of our rights, unless its the rights of them damn gays, with their big city clothes, and their prancing around, and forcing it en everyone faces. :roll: I just don't get it. I'm sorry to say, but untill my generation comes to political power, I don't think we'll have equality for here.
pgh kenny wrote:by the time bush gets done with the supreme court you might as well say goodbye to women's rights, free speech and sexual expression
Scary thought. It really bothers that a womans right to abortion could be threatened. If it wasn't for that right, my life would be completely different today. My only reconsiliation to this threat is that the male pill is coming out in 2005, so I won't ever be in the possition to have to make the choice to use that right again.

I'm also concerned about the crack down of the FCC on speach and sexual content. It seems odd to me that my parents generation was much more sexually expressive, and my generation has chosen to tame that a bit. But now that my parents generation has come to political power they seem to have become much more conservative.
"To come to your senses, you must first go out of your mind." - Alan Watts

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grim4746
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Post by grim4746 » Nov 3rd 2004, 3:47 pm

Congrats to the American people who came out in record numbers and voted for the bigotry, killing and fear mongering that they believe in. You've cemented the new American image. At this point I dont' know what to hope for except that histroy will remember the willfully naive and/or brutally self interested majority of Americans accordingly and not be so generous with it's pity as Kristin is. I guess I'll also hope that it's the rest of the world that are blind and that the Americans haven't pushed the world toward disaster. As a backup hope it might be preferable to discover we have overlords when they make themselves known one time only to come to earth and take President Bush with them never to be returned. But it's tricky and afer today it's going to be a long time before I won't feel foolish hoping for a new positive world direction. I do of course feel sorry for the Americans who voted for change. I hope you keep your mouth open and are able to prevent the administration from making the world a worse, more dangerous place.

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lance
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Post by lance » Nov 3rd 2004, 4:09 pm

The end of days...

Yesterday I awoke at 4:15 am. I volunteered until 7 pm with the Kerry/Edwards campaign. I drove to 9 elementary schools delivering lunches to attorneys who were there to ensure that every vote counted. I drove an elderly Asian woman to go vote for the very first time. I spent two hours taking an elderly couple to vote. I have spent over $300 in my own money in gas and time take off work to try an ensure that all Americans had their rights protected.

I have spend countless hours in the hot Vegas sun, giving up my weekends so that women would not have to have back alley abortions I went to conventions and meetings trying to make certain that my gay & lesbian friends would enjoy the same protections that I enjoy: the right to raise my child, the right visit my spouse in the hospital, the right to adopt, the right to have health care benefits for my significant other.

My reward? This morning my boss declared "The Draft will take care of all of those juvenile delinquents!"

My reward? The possibility of having not one, but two brothers bound for Iraq.

Most of you here know what lies ahead but for others let me make it perfectly clear what will happen, for here is the country's reward for its collective decision.

-The Democratic Party:
The US will become a one party nation like Mexico under the PRI.
Subsequent elections will have significant lower turnout as many such as myself surrender to the futility of continuing to fight a losing battle in a losing war.

In 2006 the Republican party will gain a filibuster proof majority in the Senate thus enshrining for all time the harshness of "compassionate conservativisim". In 2006 the massive retirement of Democratic stalwarts such as Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi and others who grew weary of spitting in the wind or saying "Stop or will say stop again".

Dark enough for you yet?

-The Country
In December we will see a massive military call up of the inactive reserve. Veterans returning from Iraq have already told me that it is coming. We will experience a draft by another name. Tighter restrictions on abortion, the return of poor women to back alley abortions. The end of environmental regulations and enforcement as we have known it. East Coasters get ready for more acid rain, courtesy of the those massive coal burning plants in Ohio. Gays and Lesbians will return to 1950s status. Expect more state restrictions on partner benefits, adoption, housing and hiring. 11 states have already enacted legislation. The Florida Supreme Court has already ruled that a gay man who has 9, NINE, foster children cannot legally adopt any of them.

George Bush did not win the 2000 election, it was handed to him. He acted as if he had mandate and pulled hard to the right. In 2002 after the Republicans won the election Dick Cheney told former Treasury Secretary O'Neal that they could run up deficits as large as they like.

Bush has won this election fair and square. More will become clear: On to Teheran? On to Damascus? Somethings that were known will become absolute: Palestinian and Arab lives simply don't count. Israel can kill with impunity, even run over American peace activists like Rachael Corrie engaged in peaceful civil disobediance with a bulldozer. The press will say northing and do nothing because these lives simply aren’t important. Israel can do all of this and still be ensured 3 Billion dollars a year in loans from the US. USA! USA! USA!

Finally, you will start to see the slow but steady migration of Americans to other countries, myself included.

-LanceMan

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Post by fnordboy » Nov 3rd 2004, 4:12 pm

grim4746 wrote:Congrats to the American people who came out in record numbers and voted for the bigotry, killing and fear mongering that they believe in. You've cemented the new American image. At this point I dont' know what to hope for except that histroy will remember the willfully naive and/or brutally self interested majority of Americans accordingly and not be so generous with it's pity as Kristin is. I guess I'll also hope that it's the rest of the world that are blind and that the Americans haven't pushed the world toward disaster. As a backup hope it might be preferable to discover we have overlords when they make themselves known one time only to come to earth and take President Bush with them never to be returned. But it's tricky and afer today it's going to be a long time before I won't feel foolish hoping for a new positive world direction. I do of course feel sorry for the Americans who voted for change. I hope you keep your mouth open and are able to prevent the administration from making the world a worse, more dangerous place.
I truely wish I could disagree with your sentiment. :(

but I can't

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Post by Nothingman » Nov 3rd 2004, 4:49 pm

There are a lot of things I could say about what I don't agree with and what concerns me about the future, but at this point the decision has been made and they would just be speculation. So I'll reserve those rants for when those issues come up.

I'd like to say thank you to Lance for his efforts in Nevada. Defeated or not, I praise you for taking the time to try and make a change.

Many of us here feel that we are being misrepresented to the world under Bush. Today, the majority has backed him, and that makes us the exception. And since exceptions only prove the rule, we deserve the stigma we get from other nations. I will not defend a majority I do not agree with to people from other countries. All I can say is, I disagree with them, and did what I could to change it, but to no avail. If that is "unpatriotic" than so be it.

I am proud of my generation for getting out and voting in record numbers. Making up 20% of the vote is quite an accomplishement. I hope losses don't discourage them from taking part again. I think that no matter who you voted for at any level, you are bound to have some wins and some loses. I think that's an important lesson to learn for many of us, and hopefully it will inspire us to remain active in the democratic process.

I cannot help but feel the irony in the fact that I never bought into Bush's blanket of fear surrounding Weaponds of Mass Destruction, only today am I now fearful.
"To come to your senses, you must first go out of your mind." - Alan Watts

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Post by SanDeE* » Nov 3rd 2004, 5:07 pm

Sascha (sab) wrote: Bush got re-elected because of his opinions towards same-sex marriage, stem-cell research and so on.
That makes me sick. I mean, I don't care what he believes personally in his own life & home, but don't project your beliefs on others that don't feel that way. I hate that about those right-wing evangelist born-again types. Fine, be that way, great, whatever ---- just don't try to "save me." I'm fine the way I am, I think I live right, I don't try to make people change to be how I am. I hate that. Like I said in another post earlier, we are moving backwards into the future.
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

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Post by starbug » Nov 3rd 2004, 5:28 pm

Check out Michael Moore's website... it just has that picture of Bush made up of all the small photos of the dead soldiers. everything else on the site has been taken down. It's full of impact in a depressingly profound way.

I feel for Michael Moore, I really do. You can agree or disagree with what he says, whatever. But he put more energy into mobilising democracy in the USA than Bush (pah!) and Kerry put together.

Lance, you should take pride in what you've achieved. You helped so many people to exerciset their rights. That's no small thing. Not many people have your tenacity and commitment, that's for sure.

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Post by SanDeE* » Nov 3rd 2004, 5:39 pm

Kristin wrote:I feel very sorry for those people in our country that bought Bush's lies...
About my earlier post... I do feel sorry for those people, but I am also so so SO angry today. So, a lot of what I say about this outcome is from anger. Can you blame me? I can't say that I'm going to move to a different country, because I'm just so young and I can't think about that yet. America's government is certainly leaving a bad taste in my mouth right now. And I'm scared: being a woman, being NOT rich, being a musician/artist (what kind of living can I REALLY make?), being a soon-to-be college graduate (are there going to be ANY jobs available for me after I get my diploma?), and being a friend/relative of lots of young men 18-35.

I just try to stay positive about the swing of the pendulum. I really hope it swings back to a realistic area of the political spectrum... hopefully in 2008. I do not completely hate republicans, and there are plenty of repblicans that are good for the country. It's the right-wing/evangelist/born-again Christianity of certain republicans that bothers me. I completely support the troops in Iraq, I just do not support this war. I LOVE the U.S. -- There are so many wonderful things to see and do. There ARE so many wonderful people who disagree with Bush. Just look at how close this election was. I am not surprised that Bush was reelected, because there is a war, and RARELY has there ever been a new president elected during wartime. So Kerry had a harder job this election than Gore in 2000. I am disappointed in our electoral system, I am disgusted by the mudslinging in the campaigns, and I am worried for children I may (or may not, now) have in the future.
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

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SanDeE*
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Post by SanDeE* » Nov 3rd 2004, 5:41 pm

Thank you, lance, for all that you have done. I really admire you and your efforts.
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

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Post by SanDeE* » Nov 3rd 2004, 5:56 pm

pgh kenny wrote:at least i live in a blue state
Amen to that. My state, Wisconsin, is blue as well. I'm proud of Wisconsin voters today, because I really really thought we'd go Bush. A lot of times we usually go republican.
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

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pgh kenny
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Post by pgh kenny » Nov 3rd 2004, 11:05 pm

hmmm.... I decided to revise my comments since it doesn't seem fair to call everyone who voted for bush evil.

my new approach will be to just avoid reading newspapers because I have no desire to see the deployment of bush's 'mandate' played out over the next four years.

when i was in college 1992-1996, I never paid attention to politics or the news except to attend the occasional pro-chice rally or to protest something stupid the cornell university administration wanted to do and the world didn't come to an end.

so I think that ignoring the news for the next four years will be my path to sanity. however, would someone please send me a pm when bush is about the relaunch the involuntary draft or when he has finally bankrupted the federal government? oh and for those you that missed it, check out this link for some happiness and remember to turn on the music...

http://www.miniclip.com/dancingbush.htm

http://www.miniclip.com/hiphopdebate.htm

http://www.miniclip.com/bushaerobics.htm

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