2004 election

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lance
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2004 election

Post by lance » Oct 29th 2003, 4:54 pm

Hey all,

With just a year away I thought I would start a discussion thread for the upcoming campaign. So here is your chance to say who you think rocks and why.

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stuff

Post by lance » Nov 11th 2003, 3:42 pm

Hey all,

2 billionaries are pledging money to support anti-bush political ads. You can read about it here courtesy of the Guardian Unlimited:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections20 ... 77,00.html

-LanceMan

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Post by andrewgd » Nov 11th 2003, 3:59 pm

I don't know about you, but based on Dean's Rock the Vote commercial, he's definitely locked up the raver vote. I think I'll nominate Kerry since he obviously has a strong "cute girl" following.

http://www.rockthevote.org/rtv_cnn_video.php

These are hilarious :wink:
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2004 election

Post by guitarchick » Nov 18th 2003, 8:59 pm

What do you guys think about Wesley Clark? Michael Moore sort of put in a good word for him in his new book (and that was before Clark officially announced he was even running). He sounds like a good guy though... He was a general so the conservatives will like that and he worked for CNN and often critisized Bush on tv. I think he might have a good shot of beating Bush since he seems to be liked by a lot of people with both liberal and conservative viewpoints... what do you think?

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Re: 2004 election

Post by andrewgd » Nov 18th 2003, 10:30 pm

guitarchick wrote:What do you guys think about Wesley Clark?
He seems to be floundering lately...haven't heard much from him. I get the idea that there are a lot of people trying putting a lot of support behind him, but there isn't enough substance yet for people to connect with.

Though this interview with Fox News was pretty cool, he totally goes off on the dumbass commentator:

http://66.230.216.3/111703/fnl_clark_111703_300.wmv (11mb)

(and yes, the way the commentator was asking the question was totally putting words in Clark's mouth)
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Post by TomSpeed » Nov 23rd 2003, 10:03 pm

General Clark sunk his campaign on his first day out. His flip-flopping on Iraq and other issues showed that he's not ready for primetime. I'd be surprised if he stays in the race past Iowa and NH.

It's going to be hard to stop Dean. Kerry might have a chance, but unless Dean's temper gets away from him, Kerry isn't going to catch him.

We'll see Bush and Dean slug it out against each other. Bush's money advantage over Dean will be compelling. Unless there's a double-dip recession or Bush gets totally caught up in Iraq, Bush will cakewalk to victory.

Of course, I thought his father would win reelection, so don't bet any money on my projections.
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lance
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2004 election

Post by lance » Nov 24th 2003, 10:24 am

Hey all,

I think the feeling among all Democratic activists right now is: "I would love my guy to win, but hey anybody but Bush (pause) and Lieberman."

Personally I would love Clark to win, IMHO I think he is the best Democratic canidate currently running. Is he the only Democrat who can win? No. William Shapire and crew are saying that Dean will be another Mondale. I don't think so. I think Dean can win but not by as much as Clark can. I definately think the momentum at the moment is with Dean: he has the energy, the backing of the Democratic base, several union endorsements and a huge war purse.

I think Clark had a rough start, no two ways about it. I also think that fund raising will probably be his biggest issue. He has tried to address domestic issues on the stump but most of the people he has come across want to hear about Iraq & Terroism.

The real question will be what happens after New Hampshire & Iowa. If any other canidate can stop Dean, their last chance is going to be in the southern primaries like South Carolina. Can Dean appeal to Southern moderate and conservative Democrats? Can Dean appeal to black and latino voters? I think so, time will tell.

A fairly postive article on Clark in the New York Times can be found here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/23/polit ... 3CLAR.html

A large piece on Edwards campaign here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/23/magaz ... WARDS.html

Another piece on Edwards courtesy of Guardian Unlimited:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/stor ... 12,00.html

A piece on Dean's appeal to black voters can be found here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/24/polit ... 4DEAN.html

-LanceMan

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Post by lance » Nov 24th 2003, 12:53 pm

Hey all,

Great bit from the American Prospect, November issue, sorry no link available. This is from an interview with Bill Clinton where he gives his take on the 2004 race.

"Now what we should say is that they, not we have brought class warfare back to America. You know, every time I complain about these tax cuts some conservative says I'm praticing class warfare. I am not. I pay these taxes. And I live in New York State and Westchester County, so I think I probably pay as high (of) rates as anybody in America. And I should. Nobody makes me live in this country. America has been good to me. And I think for somebody to give me a tax cut and then turn around and say, "We gotta have $87 billion sepnd in Iraq, but we're gonna kick 300, 000 kids out of after-school programs, 84,000 kids out of student loans...25,000 uniformed police off the street? We're gonna kick a copula thousand police off the street in New York City who put their lives on the line on September the 11th, and they're gonna give me a tax cut?" That's class warfare! And I think we ought to say that!

And the other thing I think is, we can smile when we say that. I don't want our side ever to treat the Republicans with the sort of personal animosity and contempt with which Hillary and I and Al were treated. I don't like that, I don't believe that, I don't think that's necessary. But we got to argue. And we got to fight hard. Otherwise they'll run right over us like they did in 2002."

Great stuff, pick up a copy if you can or check with your local library system, definately worth the read.

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elections

Post by lance » Nov 28th 2003, 1:11 pm

Found a good link to an article about Bush and the upcoming election:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/ ... index.html

The article clearly lays out the feelings of both Democrats and Republicans heading into an election year.

-LanceMan

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Post by lance » Dec 8th 2003, 3:52 pm

Hey all,

A small article about Wesley Clark's gun collection:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/07/polit ... 7POIN.html

-LanceMan

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Post by grim4746 » Jan 26th 2004, 10:37 am

:go:
From Monday's Globe and Mail--[i]Soaring Kerry edges Bush in poll[/i]-- ALAN FREEMAN wrote:The Massachusetts senator has been soaring in the polls against his six rivals in tomorrow's crucial New Hampshire primary since his surprise win last week in the Iowa caucuses, but a survey conducted for Newsweek magazine and published on-line Sunday also showed him leading Mr. Bush on a national basis, 49 per cent to 46 per cent.[...] The Newsweek poll also showed that 52 per cent of Americans are dissatisfied with the country's direction, compared with 43 per cent who are satisfied. And Mr. Bush's approval rating has fallen to a bare 50 per cent from 70 per cent after last spring's campaign in Iraq.
Kerry wasn't my first choice but at this point I'd vote for Toonces the Driving Cat over Bush. Erm, except that i'm Canadian so it's not up to me. But these numbers are encouraging and caused the knots in my stomach to loosen slightly.

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Post by TomSpeed » Jan 26th 2004, 3:05 pm

My theory, which is shared by others, has proven to be correct. Dean continues to be his own worst enemy. It's one thing to be a straight-talker, it's another thing to be a mad person who speaks without thought. I refer you to Dean's "concession speech" for the Iowa caucus. Clark continues to show that he has almost no political savvy. His statement that he didn't know the facts about Bush's National Guard service during the Vietnam War, which was brought about by filmmaker Michael Moore's endorsement of him and Moore's statement that he'd support the general over the deserter, was comical. Clark could have said that while Mr. Moore's comment wasn't necessarily true, Bush's tenure in the National Guard seems to have many questionable qualities. Bush seems to have not reported for duty, etc. Kerry seems to be peaking now. He looked downright presidential on 60 Minutes last night. Unfortunately, Kerry is probably the most liberal major Democratic candidate. And he will not be likely to carry any Southern states if he is the party's nominee. I can't write off Dean, but he will need to focus his message and persona if he wants to have a chance.
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Post by TomSpeed » Jan 26th 2004, 3:33 pm

I don't think I would put too much stock in any polls pitting a Dem against Bush right now. Kerry is hot because he just won Iowa. Also, in polls done a couple of months ago, the Democratic Unknown was beating Bush while named Dem candidates were losing to Bush rather handily. You won't be able to put a handle on things until the Dem nominee is known. Bush is basically sitting on the porch. He'll let the dogs loose on his opponent when one is identified. I have a feeling that this will be a really hard fought campaign. Bush still stands a good chance to win easily. Or we could be facing a Red States vs. Blue States election like 2000. Bush will win Florida. After all, Jeb is still governor.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
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Post by andrewgd » Jan 26th 2004, 4:30 pm

TomSpeed wrote:I refer you to Dean's "concession speech" for the Iowa caucus.
I'm soo sick of this. I don't have anything for Dean, I think him, Kerry, and possibly Clark have the best chance against Bush. But c'mon, wasn't it about time you saw someone put a little PASSION into what they're doing?? I sure am. Half these politicians walk on eggshells, never wanting to offend. They seem like paper dolls, walking through the motions. But you can never question how passionate Dean is about what he's doing. I enjoyed seeing that excitement.

(Plus there's all the arguments about him just raising his sound level to match the crowd, which you couldn't hear through his mic.)

As for Clark and the deserter charge. All he needed to say was that Moore mispoke, and that Bush was AWOL, not a deserter. Bush has never refuted the fact that he was AWOL. Clark did fumble that unfortunately, but I didn't think it was fair for Jennings to basically berate him about it.

And you're right about the polls, unfortunately ;). All we have to do is look at Iowa to see how well polls work. But I think the one thing the polls do show that the country is pretty well split down the middle. I think that shows Bush is going to have to fight to stay in.

Hehe, and Bush isn't just sitting on the porch, he's ordering ribs:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 122-5.html

Quite an amusing little read.
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Post by TomSpeed » Jan 26th 2004, 5:40 pm

That's actually a pretty good response by Bush. He's buying ribs. He's spending money, which helps the economy grow. The reporter is grossly insensitive to the fact that Bush is hungry and wants some ribs. Like every other American, Bush is entitled to eat in peace.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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