Who want's to hear my thoughts on love?

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FuzzyFreaky
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Who want's to hear my thoughts on love?

Post by FuzzyFreaky » Jun 16th 2003, 2:47 pm

Okay I had a discussion with my friend about love a few days ago and I told her that I would never get involved with anyone because I don't feel I need a partner in my life to be happy because I believe love to be fictional. What is love really anyway? Companionship? or just the need to release your sexual urges? I think people in general are just afraid of being alone and they need others to help them stay away from their fears. I also don't think that love is possible, in a world with so many people how can you know for sure that what you claim you feel for someone is just for that someone?

Someone argue with me, I wanna get to the bottom of this.
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Post by fnordboy » Jun 16th 2003, 3:25 pm

Well, even though I agree with you for the most part I will take a stab at this.
Definition at http://www.dictionary.com wrote:love
n.
1.A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.
2.A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance.
3.
a. Sexual passion.
b. Sexual intercourse.
c.A love affair.
4.An intense emotional attachment, as for a pet or treasured object.
I will say that the above definitions say it all. There is no fairy tale love like people claim, that is their senses creating the perception of the "fairy tale". Of course, that makes it real to them, which in turn makes it valid. But the others, like yourself and myself to an extent, it isn't feasible with our current mindset.

I do not believe in a "one true love" and I think that there are many levels and sides of love. I have loved a few people in my life, and it would be wrong to say a newer love cancels out, or invalidates, an earlier love. Sure, my girlfriend may not like to hear that, but that is my belief.

By shunning a relationship I do think you are making a mistake. Their is a sense of completeness when you find a partner that you 'click' with. And it is a wonderful thing when you do share love (as defined above) with each other. You can not go into anything expecting this outrageous fairytale that "you" have been told your whole life...chances are it will not happen.

Of course you need to realize that with the highs comes the downs. To really love someone you must also accept that the ability to hate them is also present. Emotions are strong in this game. If they do something that hurts you you may feel it in the bottom of your soul, but it is vindicated the second they do something that you deem as beautiful, it will bring you to a new height. It could be the way they look at you in the morning, a sideways glance that maybe you weren't supposed to see, maybe a thoughtless act, something that really shows their devotion and love to you. Usually it is the little things. It makes it all worthwhile.

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Post by Megs » Jun 16th 2003, 3:48 pm

I think that fnordboy said it wonderfully.

I, too, don't believe in the one true love theory. There are many types of love out there. At some point, you make a choice to love someone, especially in marriage. Love alone won't make a marriage last. Every day you have to choose to love that person, faults and all. It can be the toughest thing you'll ever have to do some mornings, and yet other mornings, it will be as easy as pie.

I think of life as a sort of tree. At each important point in your life, you can choose a "branch" that will lead you to down a certain path. I met my husband b/c my dad forced me to go to a local college. I don't believe that if I had gone to a different college, I would have met and fallen in love with my husband. If that makes sense.

I still don't know if I believe in soulmates. I do believe a little in the "it was meant to be" theory. But I can be a hopeless romantic sometimes. I realize that this contradicts what I said earlier, but I am not quite sure what I believe in regards to the soulmates thing. I just don't know.

Love also makes you incredibly vulnerable. And I think many people are scared to completely give themselves to the other person. And to me, that is what love is. Some people can let themselves be that vulnerable, others can't. I think more people are afraid to be vulnerable and give themselves to another person, than they are afraid to be alone, as you said.

Whatever works for you. If I thought like you, I would be a miserable person. But everyone is different. I don't think all people in love are afraid to be alone, and that is their only motivation to fall in love. I think that's a sad way to think.
I also don't think that love is possible, in a world with so many people how can you know for sure that what you claim you feel for someone is just for that someone?
I can't even fathom this. What an odd question. As corny as it sounds, you know when you love someone. I know that when I look at my husband, that the love I feel in my chest, in my entire body, is because of him. We have something special, and every day I am thankful for it. What else is living for?

Just curious: Have you ever been in love? How old are you?
Last edited by Megs on Jun 16th 2003, 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TomSpeed » Jun 16th 2003, 4:21 pm

I could use some sexual satisfaction. :twisted: :oops: I agree pretty much with what fnordboy and Megs have to say in their responses. There probably isn't a perfect match for everybody. But there is a right person at the right time. Sometimes, the right time can last a long time. Relationships are hard to keep going. They are risky, even if you put in lots of work. I've probably only been in love once. I'm 34 years old. I can't really say how much she loved me. However, I have a feeling I will fall in love again. I know I would not automatically push a woman's feelings for me aside. I don't know if the woman you are talking about is interested in dating you. If she is interested in you, why would you dismiss her feelings outright?
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Post by Nothingman » Jun 16th 2003, 4:28 pm

"Being the one, is just like being in love. You just know it, trough and trough. Balls to bone."
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Post by Megs » Jun 16th 2003, 5:09 pm

Nothingman wrote:"Being the one, is just like being in love. You just know it, trough and trough. Balls to bone."
-The Oracle
Great quote. I always enjoyed that one.
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Post by FuzzyFreaky » Jun 16th 2003, 10:38 pm

I have been in love once before, but there was nothing I could do about it and it became an unrequited love of the worst kind. That, in itself, is another discussion.

Everyone who has spoken so far has made a lot of valid points. But I'm not sure if I can accept the theory or concept of 'love'. One of the definitions that fnordboy has given states that love can be an intense emotional attachment such as that for a pet or treasured object. This proves you don't need a partner to be complete (just joking :) )

And I don't believe you need love to be complete or to feel complete. Just as people don't need certain things to survive in the world; I don't feel I need love to feel/be complete.
I don't know if the woman you are talking about is interested in tdating you. If she is interested in you, why would you dismiss her feelings outright?
Oh no this isn't about one person in particular it's about my feelings of love in general. If someone were interested in me I would try my best to gently tell them I wasn't interested, if there's any way to really do that.
If I thought like you, I would be a miserable person.
I think you should be glad you don't think like I do. I told my friend this and she kept thinking about it and the more and more she thought about the more she became unhappy. I guess I just have the affect on people. :?
I know that when I look at my husband, that the love I feel in my chest, in my entire body, is because of him. We have something special, and every day I am thankful for it. What else is living for?
This is wonderful. I'm happy for you but I just don't think I need something like this to be happy myself. People live for whatever their situations dictate they need or at least in my humble opinion I think they do. I think you know where this sentence is going...
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Post by GaryEA » Jun 17th 2003, 1:08 am

[quote="StvnPtrckMoz"]But I'm not sure if I can accept the theory or concept of 'love'. [quote]

Love is of those powerfully, sweeping changes where, when once you find yourself influenced by it, any definition or argument you had against it before ceases to make sense anymore.

Right now, your idea of love is hazy, unfocused. Essentially, you're not looking to fall in love, but to understand it. And that is a good thing. Search. Find out. Ask questions. It would be a healthier thing for you to search for some understand before dating.

Just as long as you don't let the cons outweigh the pros. :wink:

You say that if someone were to be interested in you, a true compliment in every sense, you would rebuff it, and choose to stay single. That's a perfectly valid decision, but are you sure you have the right reasons in mind when you say "no"?

I would hazard a guess and say that once you are in a healthy, loving relationship, if you eventually choose to allow it, you might wonder what part of it you didn't understand before. But that's speculation.

In the meantime, my only suggestion is to be less resistant to the concept of love. Love is what you make of it, and it could be very different than anyone else's version. And that's the beauty of it. It still needs effort, but it remains yours.

Hope this helps.

Gary

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Post by FuzzyFreaky » Jun 17th 2003, 2:41 am

In the meantime, my only suggestion is to be less resistant to the concept of love. Love is what you make of it, and it could be very different than anyone else's version. And that's the beauty of it. It still needs effort, but it remains yours.

I guess I should keep more an open mind but when I see the situations of everyone around me and see people who claim they're in love fighting and cheating and mistreating their partners and whatever else it makes me think "What is it all for?" and I also see the effect of what "love" has on people and it makes me angry seeing them abuse themselves, put themselves down, all in the name of "love".

Do you really need to be in a relationship to be happy? I've been in love before it was literally the most painful time in my life. Why repeat that and be miserable again when I can just be happy?

I'll try and keep an open mind in things. thanks everyone.
anyone else have any theories?
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Post by MartinPierre » Jun 17th 2003, 5:59 am

My theory on Love comes from "The road less traveled" by Scott Peck.

According Scott Peck, love is not an Emotion, it is a decision :

"Love is the will to extends oneself to help further the growth of another person or oneself".

In this case, will is used in the sense of a will big enough to translate into action.

For example, it is the will to take the actions necessary to help your lover to solve a problem she has. Not do it in her place. But rather help her solve it.

On the other hand, the emotion associated with love is called by Psychologists is called Chatarsis ( sp ? ). It is the physicial attraction associated with love.

So, there are 2 components to love :

- An Emotion
- A Will

The emotion is what will cause the initial attraction between 2 persons. But it will die out, because the trick is that the high caused by the emotion is in reality caused by the exitement of "getting" a person we are attracted to. Like getting a new toy at Christmas when a kid.

This will eventually die out. Psychologists estimate maximum 2 years...

Depressing isn't it ???

No, because Catharsis let you see the person you love in a good light, not in reality. As such, eventually if you make efforts to learn to know that person, you can start learning to trully love that person.

In effect, true love is not a magical feeling, but a daily continuous effort.

But if you daily try to help the person you love grow, and the other person does the same for you, you will love each other in a very close way.

And BTW, all the efforts made for love are actually pleasant. If you trully love someone, you will do everything for them.

I often give the example of the movie Dirty Dancing. I HATE that movie. I think it sucks and it is badly written. My wife likes the movie a lot. When she watches it, I sit by her and actually enjoy the movie. Why ? Because I am sharing with the person I love something she actually loves.

Would I see the movie again alone ? no.
Would I see the movie again with her ? Anytimes she wants to.

My wife and I have been loving eachother for now more than 7 years, and our couple is as "fresh" as the first time.

We have fun together, and mostly, desire to be together.

Thanks to each other helping the other grow, we both helped the other solve their problems. We are both stronger, more mature thanks to the other's help.

As such, we feel more complete, stronger thanks to the other.

Is it because it is true love ? Yes.

Is it because she it my soul mate ? No.

It is only because of the efforts we both put in.

But you will never see this in a movie, or even in a book.

It is not "Romantic" enough.

But this definition doesn't exclude romance thought...

And BTW would we cheat on each other ? I wouldn't dream about it : any other woman doesn't have 1 important thing my wife has. Other woman didn't help me become a better man.

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Post by Megs » Jun 17th 2003, 9:14 am

StvnPtrckMoz wrote:And I don't believe you need love to be complete or to feel complete. Just as people don't need certain things to survive in the world; I don't feel I need love to feel/be complete.
I don't think anyone said that they need love in order to feel complete. My love for my husband is an extension of myself. I do not rely on him for my only happiness. I am a complete person either with or without him. But life is so much better with him, that I take the heartache with the good times.

Yes, people are hurt in the "name of love". In the 7 years my husband and I have been together, we have hurt each other more than you can imagine. But we chose each other and worked past it, and now we are extremely happy. I think that when you are that vulnerable and you give yourself completely to someone, it is very easy to get hurt. And you will. But it is worth it, if the love is right, it truly is. I would relive all the painful times, because I know it has brought us to this beautiful point in our relationship.

Love isn't going to be perfect, and it isn't going to be easy or painless. Anything good in life comes with a little work and heartache. It sounds to me like this woman really hurt you and has effectively made you close yourself off to the beauty of love. That is sad. Why let her do this to you? You have no idea what you are missing.

I was watching AMC last night, and "Inventing the Abbotts" was on. There was a quote that made me think of this thread. The mother tells her son (Joaquin Phoenix) something about there being two different kinds of love. The kind where you love no matter what, and the kind where you love because the situation is right. "For me, the best kind is the no matter what kind."
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Post by Megs » Jun 17th 2003, 9:18 am

He whom love touches not walks in darkness. - Plato

Love is a force that connects us to every strand of the universe, an unconditional state that characterizes human nature, a form of knowledge that is always there for us if only we can open ourselves to it. - Emily H. Sell

Nothing in the world is single; All things by law divine In one spirit mix and mingle. Why not I with thine? - Percy Shelley

To live without loving is not really to live. - Moliere

Greater is he who acts from love than he who acts from fear. - Simeon Ben Eleazar
"I have all these dreams where I know exactly what to say. And you tell me, you know, that you forgive me."

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Post by mglenn » Jun 17th 2003, 9:19 am

Ok I'm not an expert or anything but I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about the subject so here goes.

First I'm going to read into what you are saying and try pointing out a few things I see. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong don't take it personally!

What jumps right out is the reoccuring question of whether or not you have to be in love to be happy? To which the answer is no! I know several people who lived their life without a partner and are very happy.
If someone were interested in me I would try my best to gently tell them I wasn't interested, if there's any way to really do that.
This statement is the one that strikes me... why would you rebuff them outright? It suggests less that you feel you'll be happy alone and more that you are afraid to let someone else get to know you well. Sort of a pre-rejection, in that you are rejecting them before they have a chance to reject you. Once again if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm just throwing out what I see so you can reflect on it.
I see the situations of everyone around me and see people who claim they're in love fighting and cheating and mistreating their partners and whatever else it makes me think "What is it all for?" and I also see the effect of what "love" has on people and it makes me angry seeing them abuse themselves, put themselves down, all in the name of "love".
True Love makes you vulnerable. Although the love is a feeling you see as something you have for someone else, there's a second side to it. Love is also opening your self up to that other person so that they can know you. So they know the good, the bad and the ugly about you. Now as you point out this can make people do strange things. Some people try to "make" the other person love them by attempting to become what the other person wants. But this can quickly become destructive, and leads to many of the situations that you point out. But this is not true love, its a perversion of the desire to be loved that we have as humans.
I've been in love before it was literally the most painful time in my life. Why repeat that and be miserable again when I can just be happy?
I could sit on the couch all day and toke up. I'd certainly be happy most of the time, but over all my life would be uneventful and would get boring. Instead I go out and live my life I meet new people and don't rebuff new experences. Now I am and have been dating a girl for over a year and I do believe that I am in love with her. So I don't go out seeking companionship with other women. Not that I don't make new female friends just that the relationship I share with my girlfriend, is important to me and therefor I don't do things that would harm that relationship.

What I'm saying here is that you shouldn't shutout other people. Do you need a companion to make you happy? No! But if you are happy and you meet that someone special who you can share that happiness with life can become that much sweeter.
"When I disagree with a rational man, I let reality be our final arbiter; if I am right, he will learn; if I am wrong, I will; one of us will win, but both will profit." - Ayn Rand

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Post by FuzzyFreaky » Jun 17th 2003, 10:33 am

In effect, true love is not a magical feeling, but a daily continuous effort.
If true love isn't some magical feeling and inexplicable and blah blah blah would it be safe to assume that the term love in and of itself is made up? I mean if love is just an effort then that's all it'll ever be.

and MartinPierre's post seemed somewhat striking. If 'love' is the will to help further someone's life couldn't that term literally be about anyone? Which brings me back to one of my other questions "what makes you think that what you feel for someone is to be exclusively for that someone?" With all the people in the world how do you know what you feel for your significant other is only for them?

sorry MartinPierre if it seems I'm tearing into your post, I just found it fascinating.
It suggests less that you feel you'll be happy alone and more that you are afraid to let someone else get to know you well. Sort of a pre-rejection, in that you are rejecting them before they have a chance to reject you.
It's like that in a sense but it's not that shallow.. If I don't feel it I won't get hurt and when it comes down to the wire I don't want to get hurt I would rather be alone than to experience pain.

But I still don't find the idea of love believable in any respect. I mean MartinPierre said it best (and I'm sorry for misquoting you or taking your words out of context if it's the case) "Love isn't a magical feeling, it's a continuous effort" and like I said if it's just an effort what else more can it be?
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Jun 17th 2003, 1:26 pm

StvnPtrckMoz wrote: I guess I should keep more an open mind but when I see the situations of everyone around me and see people who claim they're in love fighting and cheating and mistreating their partners and whatever else it makes me think "What is it all for?" and I also see the effect of what "love" has on people and it makes me angry seeing them abuse themselves, put themselves down, all in the name of "love".
But it IS possible to love someone without fighting, cheating, or emotionally abusing. It's called being mature. I know that I was guilty of that kind of crap when I was in high school/college. Once you are secure with who you are and don't feel the need to control/manipulate others, it is very possible to have a normal healthy relationship. I have been with my boyfriend for years and I can count on one hand how many times we have fought. Not because we agree about every little thing, but because we don't feel the need to be petty and competitive and turn everything into a conflict, have tons of drama, etc.

I agree with what others have said about the existence of different kinds of love. The way I look at romantic love, what I have with my boyfriend, is similar to the way I love my sisters or best friends with physical attraction thrown in. That's a gross oversimplification, but it'll have to do for now as I'm swamped!
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