Ok... The Matrix Reloaded... who saw it?

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mglenn
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Ok... The Matrix Reloaded... who saw it?

Post by mglenn » May 19th 2003, 9:39 am

WARNING---- THIS IS MOST LIKELY GOING TO BE A SPOILER DISCUSSION! If you have not seen the movie go search the couch and find the money to see it!

Ok I know that some of you were out there with me.... So who saw it? What did you think? Did it measure up to the first one?
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » May 19th 2003, 1:05 pm

I'm going to out myself here - I still haven't seen the FIRST one!

:oops:

It's on my netflix list though, really. I thought it would be proper to see the original before seeing the sequel. I'm anal like that. Plus I thought it would make more sense that way.

:wink:

I know, I'm about to lose my geek card over this!

(my friend saw it on Wednesday night and said it was awesome. Since I haven't seen either movie, there wasn't much discussion about it besides, "It was really incredible - you should rent the first one and then go see this one.")
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Post by Megs » May 19th 2003, 2:05 pm

Yeah, you have to see the first one before you see Reloaded and Revolutions.

I loved it, but it did bring up a lot of points for discussion. I am curious as to what other people thought of it.

I will be the first to admit that I didn't quite understand everything, especially towards the end, so I want to see it again.

There were alot of biblical references in this one. Does that mean we are to think of Neo, The One, as Jesus Christ? The only one who could save Zion and the human race?

Did they explain who or what those disappearing men were? How could they do that?

If Neo could fly, why did he wait for long in that scene when he was fighting all those Agent Smiths? Did he think he could win? Why not fly away first, before getting his ass kicked (probably b/c that scene was awesome! :wink:).

The sex scene interspersed with the primal dancing in Zion went on far too long. I didn't enjoy that scene at all. Only the end where Neo looked at Trinity and saw his dream. But, yeee---aaah, didn't need to see all that sex.

Stay until the end of the credits. They show the trailer for The Matix: Revolutions at the very end.
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Post by Megs » May 19th 2003, 2:09 pm

Yes, and I liked The Matix better than Reloaded. But I never liked Empire Strikes Back that much, either. I am not one for cliffhanger endings.

:)
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Post by Nothingman » May 19th 2003, 3:50 pm

Well, let me start off by saying that I am a huge matrix fan. I loved the original, I went to it without knowing anything about what it was suppose to be, and it blew my mind. My girlfriend and I didn’t say a word for about 45 minutes after we left the theater; our brains were just numb with amazement. I had been anxiously awaiting the sequels, and couldn’t wait the matrix reloaded to comith. With that said, here’s what I thought.

Going into this movie I wanted to be blown away again and be able to rate it a 5 star movie. As a fan I want to rate it 5 stars, but to be honest it doesn’t deserve it. Keeping in mind that it is a sequel and not a remake, it can’t be directly compared to the first one, but I still don’t feel the same intense admiration for Reloaded that I felt for the original. I wondered how they could possibly turn my brain inside out again going into the second one, and I was prepared that it wouldn’t be the same since we know the general concepts of the series, i.e. we’ve already been freed from the matrix. But they do give it a good effort.

The movie starts with a bewildering death of Trinity, which leaves us wondering through the whole movie if it will really come true, but by the time the scene resurfaces two hours later, it felt like I was watching a rerun, my heart wasn’t racing. Which happened all through the movie. I never got that emotionally involved, which is the big complaint about this movie. I was never rooting for them to win, or to get out alive, I was never worried for them. The special effects are amazingly complex and elaborate, and though I thought they were fun to watch, they felt long and didn’t pull me into the action. Again, I wasn’t emotionally invested into the story, I wanted to be, and in small spurts I was, but it just didn’t happen. I felt like I didn’t know anymore about who the characters were at the end of this movie than I did at the end of the last one. We learn a few new tid bits of history about Morpheus, The Oracle, and few others, but little about who they are personally and how we can identify with them as an audience. In this movie I was expecting to be immersed into their world and be part of the adventure, but instead I felt like I was watching on the screen back in the ship with Link, the operator.

Morpheus gives a speech to the inhabitants or zion, but the Lawrence Fishburn’s voice doesn’t seem to match the character. I was expecting a commanding James Erl Jones voice inspire me, but it was just Lawrence yelling “we’re still here” (so lets party). The party that ensues is a more of a tribal orgy, offset by Neo and Trinity rolling around in a tangle sweaty mess. All and all these pair of scenes could be cut and no one would know the difference. They didn’t inspire me or get emotionally involved as they were intended. The only thing that sparked my interest is we got to see a few nipples from anonymous tribal girls, which should not be what holds a matrix scene together.

I enjoyed the first matrix because of the philosophical questions it arose, but Reloaded seems to be more focused on cool fight scenes than on making the audience think. We get a brief visit from the Oracle which gets us thinking about “control” but then that glimmer of insight is quickly drown out by a long fight scene involving Neo and 100’s of Agent Smith clones set to poorly orchestrated music. We don’t get back into the philosophy of the matrix till we meet Lambert Wilson who plays this French aristocrat rogue program and his cardboard cutout wife Persephone. The Key Maker is a very intriguing character and seems to know more than he lets on. Also the twins are very interesting but underdeveloped in this installment. Finally, after an epic video game like car chase, and a few more plot twists Neo meets the Architect, the creator of the matrix, where we finally get the real shock to our brains. This was my favorite scene and the one I had been waiting for the whole movie, but of course we are left with more questions than answers about control and the true nature of the symbiotic nature of man and machine. I can’t wait to see what develops from this in the next installment. But I was wondering why I had to wait so long for the matrix philosophy to surface and make me question everything.

Finally in the end we Neo does something mystical in the real world which leaves us to wonder if the “real world” is really “real”. The final scene shows an unconscious Neo laying on a table adjacent from this evil villain. Who we saw earlier, cutting his hand with a knife and planning on attacking Neo, before he gets interrupted. This is all we know of him and he seems like a really weak adversary for The ONE.

I’m hoping that this sequel will grow on me, especially when we see the third installment. Perhaps we will be able to appreciate the intricacies of Reloaded. Over all I’d give this movie a 3.5. I enjoyed it, I’ll watch it again, and I’ll buy the DVD, but I was expecting more, Reloaded would be nothing without the original; it is still the anchor for the series, in more ways than just being the first movie.
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Post by Megs » May 19th 2003, 5:08 pm

nothingman wrote:Finally in the end we Neo does something mystical in the real world which leaves us to wonder if the “real world” is really “real”.
That is what really threw me for a loop. Weren't they in the Matrix, though? It wasn't the real world. Was it?
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Post by Nothingman » May 19th 2003, 6:57 pm

We don't know if they were in the matrix. That's the mystery. If they are, then are they in a simulated real world, or was the real world never real to begin with? Which raises a ton of questions. Have they ever escaped the matrix to begin with? Are they really human, or just more programming? Are these experiences shared by many minds, or is this all going on in just one mind? And i'm sure i'm only touching the tip of the ice berg here. We'll have to wait till November to find out.

On another note, I think the Wachowski Brothers could have benefited greatly if they had tried to write their story as a book first, just for their own uses. That way they might have realised that telling the story with so many action scenes would have something missing and the characters needed more developement. With a book it is painfully obvious if there is no emotion in the story since that is what must carry it without all the visuals.
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Post by doodles444s » May 20th 2003, 12:30 am

I haven't watched Reloaded, but I read the posts because I don't mind spoilers... most of the time I forget the bulk of it if I don't concentrate on taking it in.. anyways... I just had an idea from what you guys have been saying about Reloaded... (it is kinda expanding on what Nothingman said in the last post)
It kinda sounds like the writers figured out what they wanted to explain to us in the first one (introduce characters and the idea of the Matrix) and probably how they wanted to end it and tie everything together in Revolutions. I think that they wanted to introduce/expand on a few things in the second, maybe the Architect and questioning even the "real" world. But they probably lacked important overarching plot twists in the second one compared to the other two. Therefore, they overcompensated with the effects that everyone was so amazed with in the first one. Maybe they should/could have made it in to just two movies instead of a trilogy. They probably would have realized this lack in their plot if they wrote the story as a book, or a few books. (as Nothingman said)

I dunno if what I am saying is at all understandable, it seemed to organized in my head after I read your posts. So sorry if i seem to be just rambling or stating the obvoius. I think after your posts I'll try to view the second as basically part of the trilogy, how it can unite the first and (eventually) the third, and what substantial things I can bring into the third :( - but not as a movie that is standing on its own.

Sorry so long.. I guess my thoughts wander more at night.. :turn-l:

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Post by mglenn » May 20th 2003, 11:25 am

First off i agree... Sex and Dancing scenes could go and the movie would be just the same.

Now being a computer programming junkie and a stickler for detail the bit about our favorite agent "downloading" into a person and then out of the matrix just didn't make sence.... UNTIL Neo did his little magic trick in the "real world". This opens up only two possiblities in my opinion.

1. Neo is really a rogue program himself. (I don't like this one.. cause how is he human and a program at the sametime? But I need to think this through more.)

2. They are in a second matrix. (This one works alittle better off the bat for me cause it explains how Smith was able to get out of the First Matrix. )

I'm sure I'll post more later as I start to get my head wrapped around more of it.
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Post by Nothingman » May 20th 2003, 6:26 pm

1. Neo is really a rogue program himself. (I don't like this one.. cause how is he human and a program at the same time? But I need to think this through more.)
There are a couple more possibilities with this one. Neo isn't human, and has never left the matrix, he just thought he did, he's been a program all along. Or perhaps Neo was some how infected by Agent Smith's "black tar virus" and now he has some sort of "connection" with the machines. Since our experiences are just electrical signals interpreted by our brains, then why couldn't that interpretation be altered by the matrix, there by changing our experiences in the "real world".
2. They are in a second matrix. (This one works a little better off the bat for me cause it explains how Smith was able to get out of the First Matrix. )
I touched on this above, but if there is second matrix, or in other words, and alternate reality within the same matrix, than Neo could be human or a program. The dream about Agent Smith crossing over to the real world is the loose end. Since it is a dream, we do not know if it will come true, however, the dream of Trinity came true, sort of, but not exactly. So we are lead to believe that this scene is from Resolutions, and that it will be resolved there. I agree with mglenn that I like the idea of Neo being human and the real world being an alternate matrix reality. Mainly because when all the science fiction is stripped away from the story, it is really about how human beings perceive the universe.

If the these questions about difference between mind and body interest you I would recommend checking out René Descartes' "Meditations on First Philosophy" here is a link regarding his philosophy about mind and bodyhttp://www.utm.edu/research/iep/d/desca ... and%20Body

Also, check out "Berkeley's Theory of Immaterialism", where he attempts to prove that all that exists in the universe is the mind
http://www.cyberessays.com/Politics/113.htm
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Post by starbug » May 21st 2003, 10:27 am

Sadly, my enjoyment of the Matrix has been forever ruined. Last year my employer made our entire office go on a 'strategic retreat' where the facilitator based the whole day round 'the Matrix'. He had it playing on silent in the background while we did naff little teamwork exercises and everybody's hatred for each other boiled under the surface.

I'd never seen it before and our homework before we went was to watch it. I now can't hear the word 'Matrix' without some fairly awful associations. Which is a crying shame as it is just the sort of film I usually really love.

That said, Mr. S is keen to see Reloaded (even though he hates Sci-Fi - what are we doing together again?) ever since he heard it had a 27 minute car chase with a specially constructed-for-the-purpose road...
If we can get tickets we may go this weekend.

Keanu should just about be gearing up for the premier in London in a couple of hours. About 15 mins walk from my office... if I thought I had any chance of getting within 100 feet I would go down there :beamup:

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Post by mglenn » May 21st 2003, 10:45 am

Starbug... that’s such a crime! I've had some experience with those team building crap and its such a joke cause it only works if you put people together for weeks not hours or days. But this is all stuff for another thread if we want to get into it in depth so I'll move on... "Go Team!" :D

On the philosophy side I'll check those out nothingman, thanks. I have read The Holographic Universe and I'm currently in the middle of Taking the Red Pill which is a collection of essays, a few of which are available on the Matrix site under the philosophy section.

The one essay I've completed on the science was good, but not thought out well enough for me. Being a programmer I didn't like the explanation that was given for why the telephones were needed for entering, and more specifically, leaving the matrix.
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Post by Sascha (sab) » May 22nd 2003, 6:09 pm

I saw "Reloaded" today and I agree with most of the things that have been said here before. The expectations for "Reloaded" were probably way too high - sadly the usual "sequel effect" took place. Too many (but very good and breathtaking) special effects, too much martial arts, too few philosophical / science fiction aspects. But still a very good movie, one of the best of 2003 for sure. I just hoped for more - well, let's wait for "Revolutions" in November.

Some of the Animatrix shortfilms can fill this "storyhole" by telling the history of the war between mankind and the machines and the history of Zion. But why didn't they include more of this background story into the main movies?

As for speculations about part 3: I also guess that there's a Matrix inside the Matrix and the only exit will be Neo and "Smith" joining their forces. But this solution is so obvious that I'll be disappointed and bored if it turns out to be true :)

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Post by starbug » May 29th 2003, 5:54 am

I saw Reloaded at the weekend and while I appreciated the special effects, there were lots and lots of loose ends (too loose, really). I think the biggest mistake is that they've made Neo too powerful; as was touched on above you don't ever really think anything is going to happen to him. He can, after all, just fly out of it. And resurrect Trinity.

I wasn't really disappointed overall but I did think the film used too many special effects and not enough plot.

I personally think they travel into a second Matrix at the end of the film, which is why Neo can stop the sentinels with his hands. I like to think that the second Matrix is a construct made to look like the RL they were experiencing in the first Matrix and that Morpheus' belief in Neo will be even more unshakable therefore; it will appear to them that Neo has special powers in RL. This could lead to some interesting dynamics in the group. It could run something like a computer game in terms of 'levels of difficulty' or something :?: Are they all programs? Is Neo a programme and are the rest of them real?

Don't know about any of this but it sure is going to be fun finding out :!:

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Post by starbug » May 29th 2003, 5:57 am

mglenn wrote:Starbug... that’s such a crime! I've had some experience with those team building crap and its such a joke cause it only works if you put people together for weeks not hours or days. But this is all stuff for another thread if we want to get into it in depth so I'll move on... "Go Team!" :D
mglenn, you are so right. The team-building 'guide each other around a building blindfolded' was such a bunch of tripe.

And yeah, I still had my boss' voice in the back of my head through Reloaded too... tainted forever :evil:

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