Discussion for Episode 17: Betrayal

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
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TomSpeed
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Post by TomSpeed » May 21st 2003, 11:09 am

I think the main reason why there was only one cafeteria scene was the cost of filming such a scene. Scenes with many extras cost a great deal to film. The producers didn't have big budgets. In some of the school scenes, you see the same extras entering and exiting a scene over and over again.
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Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Natasha (candygirl)
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » May 21st 2003, 1:26 pm

As reported in the MSCL encyclopedia, the number of extras required for cafeteria scenes were too expensive!
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Post by Nothingman » May 21st 2003, 2:09 pm

Well, it's a shame that there weren't more cafeteria scenes. Because "the cafeteria is like the embarassment capitol of the world." Lunches are always a big deal, it's when you get to do all your "networking". You see people there you don't see in your classes. I remember having some sort of plan in place for what i wanted to do in my lunch period. Who i was going to eat with, what girl i was hoping to see, or what part of my lunch i was hoping to trade away. Seems my whole day would be focused around one class with someone I liked, or passing them in the hall and saying hello. I'd spend the whole morning thinking about what I wanted to say or do, then it would happen, and i'd spend the rest of the day thinking about what an idiot i was, and wondering "why am i like this?". I remember timing my gum chewing so that I would have a fresh piece in whenever, "the event" for that day happened. For instance, i'd have half of a piece of gum before the end of second period because i would pass her in the hall, and I would have the other half after lunch so i had fresh breath for the next period where i'd sit next to her in class. And good thing Winterfresh came in 5 piece packs so I only had to buy a new one once a week. I always think of Winterfresh when Jordon gets his little bottle of breath freshener out. When i look back on it, it's a wonder i learned anything in highschool.

I know i'm way off topic, sorry, the cafeteria just brought back so many ridiculous memories and I felt like sharing. I was such a dork, at least I know I had Brian for company.
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Post by Megs » May 21st 2003, 3:03 pm

We weren't even allowed to chew gum in my high school. :twisted:
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Post by Guest » May 23rd 2003, 11:17 am

hey guys, I have a question about Jordan in this ep. When he sees Angela in the hallway,he immediately stops. What does he want?To talk to her?Because if you want to talk to a person, you don't just stop and wait, you go to that person,right? And when he sees her talking to Corey,what is he waiting for?I mean, it's pretty obvious she's talking to someone else, right?

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Post by TomSpeed » May 23rd 2003, 12:18 pm

Anonymous wrote:hey guys, I have a question about Jordan in this ep. When he sees Angela in the hallway,he immediately stops. What does he want?To talk to her?Because if you want to talk to a person, you don't just stop and wait, you go to that person,right? And when he sees her talking to Corey,what is he waiting for?I mean, it's pretty obvious she's talking to someone else, right?
I think he is waiting for Corey to leave Angela before he approaches her. He doesn't know how serious Angela's relationship with Corey is. He probably feels uncomfortable speaking with her when Corey is with her.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Post by crimsonglowgurl » May 23rd 2003, 5:43 pm

nothingman wrote:Seems my whole day would be focused around one class with someone I liked, or passing them in the hall and saying hello. I'd spend the whole morning thinking about what I wanted to say or do, then it would happen, and i'd spend the rest of the day thinking about what an idiot i was, and wondering "why am i like this?". I remember timing my gum chewing so that I would have a fresh piece in whenever, "the event" for that day happened. For instance, i'd have half of a piece of gum before the end of second period because i would pass her in the hall, and I would have the other half after lunch so i had fresh breath for the next period where i'd sit next to her in class. And good thing Winterfresh came in 5 piece packs so I only had to buy a new one once a week. I always think of Winterfresh when Jordon gets his little bottle of breath freshener out. When i look back on it, it's a wonder i learned anything in highschool.
Dont leave me hanging!! what ever happened?? How did it end?? Did u ever talk to her? Did you guys ever have a boiler room moment?? Did she ever find out you liked her??? Spill!!! :)

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Post by Guest » May 31st 2003, 12:20 pm

[quote="candygirl"] "You lost nothing, Angela. You lost a lousy, selfish friend, a guy you never really had...you lost nothing!...I lost a really good friend - I lost everything."

Okay, I get the part when she says that Angela lost a lousy,selfish friend but what does she mean by that other thing?( "a guy you never really had"). HAD? In what sense?Does she mean she never had sex with him? Emotionally? Or what?

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Post by TomSpeed » May 31st 2003, 9:27 pm

I think Rayanne means that Angela and Jordan haven't had a real relationship. Most of the relationship has been inside of Angela's head. Sex can be part of a relationship, but it isn't the entire relationship. Another part of a relationship is the act of giving yourself to someone. Angela might not see what has happened in the same way. Even though Jordan isn't necessarily hers to lose, the loss of even a potential relationship must hit her pretty hard.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Natasha (candygirl)
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » May 31st 2003, 10:42 pm

I don't think that Rayanne is crass enough to mean, "You never had sex with Jordan so he was never really your boyfriend."

When Rayanne says that Jordan is a guy that Angela never really had, she is reiterating what Angela said at the beginning of the episode: "He was only my boyfriend for, like, a split second." Previous to that split second when they were officially together (which I always assumed was from the end of Self Esteem until the end of Pressure), Angela had intermittent interaction with Jordan (she had established "verbal communication," as Brian would say) but most of their "relationship" was her obsessing about him, scheming to talk to him, etc. In other words, she was making a mountain out of a molehill.

:wink:

A good discussion about this is in the Angela's "relationship" with Jordan thread.
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Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

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Post by Guest » Jun 2nd 2003, 4:12 pm

Do you think Jordan blames Rayanne( and vice versa) for the wedge that now exists in his/hers relationship with Angela? In all fanfic stories they either really hate each other or they are really annoyed by each other. I find that plausible seeing how people usually place responsibility( partially, at least) on somebody else. What do you guys think?

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Post by TomSpeed » Jun 2nd 2003, 9:51 pm

Jordan and Rayanne both seem to look at what happened realistically. They accept responsibility for their own actions. I don't think they hate each other. Unfortunately, I haven't used Jordan much in my fan fiction stories. But Jordan continues to care for Angela in his own way. Rayanne doesn't dislike Jordan. However, she does think that Angela has outgrown him.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

seedman
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Post by seedman » Jun 4th 2003, 3:31 pm

Watching this episode for the third time last night I saw something I hadn't noticed before.

When Ray and Jordan were leaning against his car and started kissing they were twirling (or the camera was) and there is a shot where the light catches her hair and turns it red. It looks very much the colour of Angela's at that instant.

Voila, the transformation into Angela is complete. Another nice detail.

Len

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Post by Guest » Jun 4th 2003, 3:32 pm

[quote="TomSpeed"]Jordan and Rayanne both seem to look at what happened realistically. They accept responsibility for their own actions. I don't think they hate each other.

Okay, I agree, but every time they see each other it will be like" Why did I have to sleep with HER. I totally blown it" or " I lost my best friend because of THAT guy", so maybe they don't hate each other but they are certainly not fond of each other either.I mean, look at their mannerism in the hallway next day-leaning against the wall,their backs turned, not even being able to look at each other-okay they feel guilty because of what happened but for Rayanne Jordan will always be the reason she lost THE best friend she'll probably ever have( you don't meet people like Angela every day, especially if you're Rayanne) and Angela will not easily get over the fact that Jordan slept with her best friend, so for Jordan Rayanne will always be THE reason he lost the best girl he'll ever have.( Because I don't think she has REALLY forgiven him, no matter what Jordan fans say)
I'm talking in circles and that makes no sense."But I meant every word. I mean the person who wrote it meant every word....Probably."

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Post by Guest » Jun 5th 2003, 1:31 pm

[quote="seedman"]Watching this episode for the third time last night I saw something I hadn't noticed before.

When Ray and Jordan were leaning against his car and started kissing they were twirling (or the camera was) and there is a shot where the light catches her hair and turns it red. It looks very much the colour of Angela's at that instant.

Voila, the transformation into Angela is complete. Another nice detail.

I totally saw that. And while they are talking about Angela leaning against his car behind them there's a mixture of red and green light-hmm, I wonder what that means( green-envy, red-anger, jealousy!?)

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