Discussion for Episode 7: Why Jordan Can't Read

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
User avatar
SanDeE*
So-Called Addict
Posts: 989
Joined: Sep 24th 2002, 4:40 am

Post by SanDeE* » Feb 25th 2003, 12:04 am

I'm sick of the pressure put on girls to want a boyfriend. It angers me that it is just assumed that if you are a girl, you must desire a boyfriend at all times if you do not have one already. If you do not, it is non-sensical and there must be something wrong with you. Angela could be feeling this pressure. She did say in VO in another episode (The Zit) that Sharon having a boyfriend and not her is kafkaesque. That was worded poorly, sorry, I'm tired. But you get the idea. Angela always wants a boyfriend, and she wants it to be Jordan. I mean, believe me, I can relate in a lot of ways. But I'm just sick of that expectation and the pressure to find and covet a boyfriend. Is it just me, or do any of the other females on this forum feel this pressure too?
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Feb 25th 2003, 12:18 am

I am only going to say one thing about how Angela looks when she is waiting for Jordan to appear for his audience/interview/interrogation with Graham and Patty: she looks very hot. If I were in high school, there wouldn't be any doubt that she'd be on my "it" list. Brian's comment, that she looks like she is trying to look like a different person is so true. She is trying to look her best. She is also trying to look like an adult. The makeup, lipstick, even the dress are all meant to impress. It's a shame her efforts are totally wasted.

Angela and Brian are on the same wavelength in many ways. He overanalyzes things, so does she. She thinks with her heart just as he does. Even when they cut each other down, like people who have passion for each other, they share a mutual respect.

Back to dressing to impress. I've had the good fortune to have women dress to impress for me. I am extremely thankful. Few things make a man walk tall like having on his arm who makes an effort to look good. I think in some ways, men might be lacking in this department. I guess it helps that women have a wider variety of clothing choices, including day-wear and night-wear.

I keep talking about the same woman in my life. I probably do it because she meant a great deal to me. Even though things didn't work out, I will remember that she always put forth an effort to thrill me with how she looked for me. Little things mattered to her. She brought the black lingerie I spent an hour trying to pick out two years before when she visited last time. She also brought her white lingerie that she wore on her wedding night. Doing those things meant our time together was special.

Ummm....What was I talking about again?
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Feb 25th 2003, 12:31 am

Kristin wrote:I'm sick of the pressure put on girls to want a boyfriend. It angers me that it is just assumed that if you are a girl, you must desire a boyfriend at all times if you do not have one already. If you do not, it is non-sensical and there must be something wrong with you. Angela could be feeling this pressure. She did say in VO in another episode (The Zit) that Sharon having a boyfriend and not her is kafkaesque. That was worded poorly, sorry, I'm tired. But you get the idea. Angela always wants a boyfriend, and she wants it to be Jordan. I mean, believe me, I can relate in a lot of ways. But I'm just sick of that expectation and the pressure to find and covet a boyfriend. Is it just me, or do any of the other females on this forum feel this pressure too?
I agree that there is pressure from society for men and women to pair off. Also, though, I think people have a natural desire to be with someone. People get lonely without any pressure from outside. I love living alone. It bites financially. However, if I want to walk around in my boxers, my dog isn't going to say anything. Would I trade living alone for living with a woman I love and whom loves me? Sure.

It's funny that I get subtle hints from my mom that I should find the right woman, settle down, and have children. The pressure is not overwhelming, but it is definitely present. I think her concern comes from her wish to see her child happy. What can be a greater wish than that?

Angela compares herself to Sharon. She also wonders whether not having a boy friend is abnormal. Women and men measure themselves in many ways. Can the measurements they take be deceiving? Yes. Can they also be true? Yes. They can also be very confusing.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

User avatar
SanDeE*
So-Called Addict
Posts: 989
Joined: Sep 24th 2002, 4:40 am

Post by SanDeE* » Feb 25th 2003, 12:45 am

TomSpeed wrote:Angela and Brian are on the same wavelength in many ways. He overanalyzes things, so does she. She thinks with her heart just as he does. Even when they cut each other down, like people who have passion for each other, they share a mutual respect.
I know this is a discussion for Why Jordan Can't Read, but Camille says something in the last episode in this vein. If people can fight like that there must be some passion involved? I swear every time I watch the scene with Brian and Angela fighting about Jordan and the Bicycle Thief, right at the end where they stare at each other for a second, I have to yell "KISS HER!" Too bad they don't, because there is so much passion between the two of them. Hot hot hot!
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Feb 25th 2003, 12:49 am

Ugh. It's getting late. I feel like I've dropped the ball discussing this episode. I'll have more stuff tomorrow. I'm tired now though. Mr. Sandman is catching up on me.

However, I will make a last post. Fathers both need and want sons. Yes, having daughters rocks, but daughters aren't the same as sons. I could really feel Graham's buildup and disappointment over Patty's pregnancy scare. He pulled out his baseball glove for heavens sake. I will be thankful for any children I am blessed with, but I want at least one son.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

User avatar
SanDeE*
So-Called Addict
Posts: 989
Joined: Sep 24th 2002, 4:40 am

Post by SanDeE* » Feb 25th 2003, 12:49 am

Rayanne leaves Angela's note to Jordan on an encased sculpture. The sculpture is of a person, reclined, barely covered, sexual, vulnerable, open. I'd like to think that this was a clever way to show how Angela's letter made her - vulnerable. Also Angela's budding sexuality, I don't know. Any art buffs out there recognize the piece and artist? Or maybe it's listed somewhere on this site?
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

Lindsay
Overlooked Sibling
Posts: 48
Joined: Nov 14th 2002, 8:10 pm

Kristin

Post by Lindsay » Feb 25th 2003, 2:21 am

I must say I totally agree with you- there is alot of pressure on girls to have a boyfriend. I get asked all the time, by people I've even just met "So, do you have a boyfriend." I'm of course at the point where I have NO interest in "finding" a boyfriend- I seem to be MUCH happier single.
I relate to the way that Angela feels towards Jordon and expects things from him.... even if they are a "couple", you're right- they do have this unspoken connection. I can't really explain it, but I completley COMPLETLEY can relate to it. Therefore, I don't think Angela reads into things way too much.... or at least I hope she doesn't!

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Feb 25th 2003, 10:30 am

I hate to admit it, but I've never seen The BicycleThief. Has anyone seen it? If you have seen it, do you recommend the movie to others? Is it on DVD?
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

User avatar
SanDeE*
So-Called Addict
Posts: 989
Joined: Sep 24th 2002, 4:40 am

Post by SanDeE* » Feb 25th 2003, 11:37 am

Patty tells Graham she may be pregnant, she says, "Graham, what if it's a boy?" and he says, "It's not a boy, it's not anything. You're not pregnant. You mean you feel like it might be a boy?" Patty was kind of liking that idea of having a boy, wasn't she? That's what I drew from the way she said that to Graham and everything. But then Brian comes over, a real life boy, and Patty is visibly uncomfortable, backing away into a table and things like that. Maybe the IDEA was appealing, but the actuality made her uncomfortable. I don't know if I want kids yet, but if I did, I'd definately want boys. Or at least one boy and one girl.
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

User avatar
SanDeE*
So-Called Addict
Posts: 989
Joined: Sep 24th 2002, 4:40 am

Re: Kristin

Post by SanDeE* » Feb 25th 2003, 11:57 am

Lindsay wrote:I must say I totally agree with you- there is alot of pressure on girls to have a boyfriend. I get asked all the time, by people I've even just met "So, do you have a boyfriend." I'm of course at the point where I have NO interest in "finding" a boyfriend- I seem to be MUCH happier single.
I relate to the way that Angela feels towards Jordon and expects things from him.... even if they are a "couple", you're right- they do have this unspoken connection. I can't really explain it, but I completley COMPLETLEY can relate to it. Therefore, I don't think Angela reads into things way too much.... or at least I hope she doesn't!
YES. Exactly. About a month and a half ago, I broke up with my boyfriend of 2.5 years. It was really hard and broke my heart and his heart too. He just couldn't understand that I wasn't leaving him for another guy. He couldn't fathom that I just wanted to be on my own for now, for a WHILE. And I've learned recently that there are maybe five or so guys that like me now and I'm just overwhelmed by it all. Part of me is flattered, but the other part just doesn't want to deal with it at all. One of the guys that likes me here at school said to me, "Kristin I bet you'll have another boyfriend in a month." That p!ssed me off because I really don't want one now and I won't have a bf in a month. That right there shows you the pressure to have a bf.

I can totally relate to Angela, however, because the one guy that I do like (and thankfully he likes me too) is pretty unattainable right now. We don't live in the same city, and he's a bit older than me, but there has always been a very strong physical and chemical attraction between us ever since we first met five years ago. I read the emails he sends me about fifty times before I respond. I rewrite the my emails to him about fifty times before I send them. I analyze conversations I've had with him and things we've done together (which isn't much - like maybe one real date). I really want to see him next time I'm in his city, but I'm nervous about it. I want him to be affectionate and want me as his girlfriend. (But that won't happen for a while.) This is all pretty harmless wishful thinking, in my opinion. Angela doesn't expect too much from Jordan. I mean, I know girls my age, 19-20, who have picked out engagement rings and shown them to their bfs. Scary. Angela wants Jordan to look at her, hold her hand, talk to her, kiss her. She doesn't seem to be expecting a knight in shining armour or prince charming. Wanting something is different from expecting it.
Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

~~Kristin~~

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Feb 25th 2003, 12:17 pm

Brian walks in on Graham and Patty while they are having an intimate conversation about her possibly being pregnant. They are caught unaware and in their real element being themselves.

It's interesting that Brian doesn't knock when he enters the house. He says that the door is open. I guess he probably knocks on the door and no one hears him. However, he apparently feels comfortable entering the house without someone letting him in. It makes me wonder just how much time he has spent at Angela's house.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Feb 25th 2003, 1:12 pm

from the transcript wrote:[in Jordan's car, in front of Chase house]
Angela : I was just thinking...could you maybe have dyslexia?
Jordan : What, that backwards thing?
Angela : Lots of people have it, I mean, my father's brother has it. Makes
reading incredibly difficult 'cause your mind, like-
Jordan : Let's not talk about this.
Angela : reverses things. I'm sorry. [pause] It's actually not...I mean,
a lot of really intelligent people are dyslexic. Just because a
person can't read-
Jordan : Hey, I can read, okay? [pause] Just not...
Angela : No, I know.
Jordan : Just not that good. [pause] You know those guys...up in the
mountains? [inching closer to her]
Angela : What guys? [inching closer herself]
Jordan : Who make snow, like, like, as their job?
Angela : Oh, yeah.
Jordan : [long pause] I would really like to do that.
Angela : [pause] You mean, part-time or-
[they kiss]
Jordan : Sorry.
Angela : For what?
Jordan : Uh, I, I interrupted you.
Angela : Yeah. Thanks.
Jordan : Okay.
Angela : Yeah. [leaves]
[the infamous "Angela's Dance" -- appropriately titled by Ms. Sherry]
This is a really interesting scene. At the beginning, is Angela using her knowledge of Jordan's reading disorder as some kind of tool? Does Jordan really care about his reading disorder enough to do anything about it? Who knew Neal has dyslexia? Funny line: "I can read, okay. Just not...that good." Jordan should say that he can't read that well. I know this is a cheap shot, but what I can I say?

"You know those guys up in the mountains....." Wow! This whole thing seems like a pickup line/story to me. Good lines work because they don't seem like lines. Jordan could be saying anything, of course. The tone of voice, the softness, works. Angela wants to hear him.

The kiss. Another wow! This is their first "real" kiss. It will be the first one Angela thinks of when she thinks of Jordan.

The apology Jordan gives for interrupting Angela. I think he is prepared with this apology. He remembers what happened before.

Maybe he isn't running a scam on her. However, I think he is running one. Jordan is seducing Angela. Anglea wants to be seduced.

Last part, Jordan lets her leave the car way too easily. I'm not saying anything bad would happen. But, I get the feeling he thinking about fishing. He has a fish hooked. He reels her in gently. Then, he gives her some line.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Feb 25th 2003, 2:04 pm

The Dating Rules

1. You have a curfew.
2. We have to know where you are going.
3. We need to know who is going to be there.
4. No drinking.
5. Don't let someone drive you around who has been drinking.
6. We have to meet who you want to date before you go out.

These are great rules, IMHO. Having rules is a way to let your children know you care about them. I'm going to have to print these rules and frame them for future reference.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Feb 25th 2003, 4:09 pm

TomSpeed wrote:I hate to admit it, but I've never seen The BicycleThief. Has anyone seen it? If you have seen it, do you recommend the movie to others? Is it on DVD?
I have seen the Bicycle Thief and it is available on DVD. There was a discussion about the film in a previous thread - please refer to the link in the second post of this discussion thread. Sorry, I'm at work and time is of the essence!
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Feb 25th 2003, 4:27 pm

candygirl wrote:How did Angela get Patty's permission to go to "band practice" on a school night? Was Patty so busy obsessing about her possible pregnancy to enforce her own rules?
They are pretty distracted by Patty's possible pregnancy. I don't think they would have said it would be OK for Angela to set the house on fire, but anything remotely school related would make it past them.
Why is Angela so intent on having Jordan meet her parents that night? He could have just met them that weekend when he came to pick her up for the movie.
She wants to get the terrible chore of having Jordan meeting Patty and Graham completed. Plus, she is so excited about the possibility of dating Jordan she cannot help herself.
Why does Angela choose The Bicycle Thief as a movie to see with Jordan? Given Jordan's confession regarding his reading skills, this seems an especially cruel choice since the movie is in Italian, meaning he will have to spend two hours reading the subtitles in English. Does "Red" really remind her of the Bicycle Thief? If so, why? (I saw the Bicycle Thief and "Red" didn't remind me of it at all!)
She is on the spot with coming up with something to say to Jordan. If she had watched Moonraker the night before she would say that it reminded her of Jordan's song.
Has Sharon had sex with Kyle at this point? Her guilty expression (as well as her hemming and hawing) prior to her self-righteous speech about her "solemn promise" seem to indicate she has. Then again, maybe the reason that she and Kyle make out so much is because they haven't had sex yet! Seriously, the way she tells Rayanne that maybe "[Rayanne] hasn't found the right person yet" seems like Sharon admitting that her sex life with Kyle is reaching the heights of ecstasy because he is right for her and she wishes that Rayanne could feel that.
I don't think they have had intercourse, but they have probably gone beyond friendly kissing. Like Brother Bill said, "It depends on what your definition of 'sex' is."
When Rickie tells Angela, "You haven't even heard his side yet," is he just playing devil's advocate or is he actively defending Jordan in an attempt to live vicariously through her relationship with Jordan? Does Rickie still have a crush on Jordan? It's true that once you know someone's schedule, it's still filed away in your head so that could explain his detailed recall of where Angela should be if she wants to run into Jordan, but the way that Rickie looks at Jordan's hand on his shoulder before telling him he should have called speaks volumes IMHO.
Rickie has a crush on Jordan. Listening to Angela talk about her longing for Jordan must be very painful for him.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests