t.A.T.u.

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lance
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Post by lance » Feb 24th 2003, 3:04 pm

andrewgd wrote:
candygirl wrote:it was "fun" and harmless. I'm sure the pedophiles don't see it that way.
Well, fun maybe.

One thing I feel I should point out is that the kids aren't to blame. Neither is the music industry, movies, television, etc.

The blame for kids wearing this stuff lands squarely on the parents sholders. Granted, if the kids didn't see it on tv, they wouldn't want it. But thats why parents are parents. They make the rules that sculpt the children. If they see something they don't want the kids seeing/wearing/etc, it is their duty to make sure their kids don't have access to it. It is not up to TV or government, but these parents. Maybe if they put as much time into parenting as complaining about the media they wouldn't have to worry about their kids being influenced by it....
Yeah,

I agree with you and Candygirl that parents have to bear a lions share of the responsibility for what their kids do and see. Having said that, I was raised in a single parent home so I know that many single moms and dads don't have the time to be there 24/7 for their kids.

Unfortunately, sex sells. As long as this holds true advertisers will continue to use it to push all kinds of merchandise on young consumers, even questionable items like thongs.

Lance Man

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Post by fnordboy » Feb 24th 2003, 5:12 pm

lance wrote: Yeah,

I agree with you and Candygirl that parents have to bear a lions share of the responsibility for what their kids do and see. Having said that, I was raised in a single parent home so I know that many single moms and dads don't have the time to be there 24/7 for their kids.

Unfortunately, sex sells. As long as this holds true advertisers will continue to use it to push all kinds of merchandise on young consumers, even questionable items like thongs.

Lance Man
I will agree with what was said, but I will push it a bit further. The problem definitely lies in the parents, but if you look deeper this actually goes towards the blame of the gov't, state and federal. I too was raised in a single parent home since I was 5. My mother worked all the time so I had a lot of time to get into my own trouble lol. I raised intelligently enough though to know what was what and since i spent most of my time on the streets i have a very strong street sense. So I got by with minimal amount of trouble (read as getting caught ;) ), other people I know didn't who were in the same predicament as myself.

Where I feel the gov't is to blame is that not only does this problem effect single parent households it effects regular two parent homes since nowadays both parents work usually. The cost of living is too high to get by on one decent income. You should be able to get by if you are working full time at a Mcdonalds making minimum wage. That should get you the basic requirements for living: food and shelter. Where I live that doesnt even get close, let alone allow you to raise a child or two. Hell I make good money and I really cant afford to live on my own the way i should be able to. I can't even fathom tryign to pay $850 rent for a roach infested 3 small room apartment while your making 5.25 an hour. So of course parents aren't going to be there for their kids, which still isn't right, it is no real excuse for not raising your kid properly, but parents tend to get the idea that they want a "better life" for their kid and don't realize they are sacrificiing something greater while working so hard and so long.

I don't know if that jumbled mess makes sense so I will end it there :D

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Post by andrewgd » Feb 24th 2003, 6:29 pm

fnordboy wrote:
lance wrote:I can't even fathom tryign to pay $850 rent for a roach infested 3 small room apartment while your making 5.25 an hour.
I agree that minimum wage is definitely too low. But there's no way that would justifying making materials not available on tv/movies/etc.

There's definitely a good argument to raise minimum wage, but the government needs to spend its time being the government, and not get into people's personal lives playing mommy and daddy.
"Your imagination, like a child, will explode with unrestrained possibilities for adventure."

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Post by fnordboy » Feb 24th 2003, 7:12 pm

andrewgd wrote: I agree that minimum wage is definitely too low. But there's no way that would justifying making materials not available on tv/movies/etc.
No that wasn't where I was going with that at all, if that's how it came out..my bad.

I was just blaming the gov't for forcing parents to be working instead of being with their kids. Not that that should then explain away the bullshit that the FCC and others do.
andrewgd wrote: There's definitely a good argument to raise minimum wage, but the government needs to spend its time being the government, and not get into people's personal lives playing mommy and daddy.
I whole-heartedly agree on that. I want the gov't out of my hair as much as the next guy. Moreso probably.

If the gov't would raise minimum wage, people could stay home and be mommy and daddy.


Minimum wage is just the beginning really. But that would be a step in the right direction.

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Post by lance » Feb 25th 2003, 9:45 am

fnordboy wrote:
lance wrote: Yeah,

I agree with you and Candygirl that parents have to bear a lions share of the responsibility for what their kids do and see. Having said that, I was raised in a single parent home so I know that many single moms and dads don't have the time to be there 24/7 for their kids.

Unfortunately, sex sells. As long as this holds true advertisers will continue to use it to push all kinds of merchandise on young consumers, even questionable items like thongs.

Lance Man
I will agree with what was said, but I will push it a bit further. The problem definitely lies in the parents, but if you look deeper this actually goes towards the blame of the gov't, state and federal. I too was raised in a single parent home since I was 5. My mother worked all the time so I had a lot of time to get into my own trouble lol. I raised intelligently enough though to know what was what and since i spent most of my time on the streets i have a very strong street sense. So I got by with minimal amount of trouble (read as getting caught ;) ), other people I know didn't who were in the same predicament as myself.

Where I feel the gov't is to blame is that not only does this problem effect single parent households it effects regular two parent homes since nowadays both parents work usually. The cost of living is too high to get by on one decent income. You should be able to get by if you are working full time at a Mcdonalds making minimum wage. That should get you the basic requirements for living: food and shelter. Where I live that doesnt even get close, let alone allow you to raise a child or two. Hell I make good money and I really cant afford to live on my own the way i should be able to. I can't even fathom tryign to pay $850 rent for a roach infested 3 small room apartment while your making 5.25 an hour. So of course parents aren't going to be there for their kids, which still isn't right, it is no real excuse for not raising your kid properly, but parents tend to get the idea that they want a "better life" for their kid and don't realize they are sacrificiing something greater while working so hard and so long.

I don't know if that jumbled mess makes sense so I will end it there :D
Fnordboy,

I think the jist of what you are trying to say came out right. Sunday night at mass the announcements were held raising money for habitat for humanity homes. The person said that a two family earning $17,000 a year or $8.50 an hour would have to pay $600.00 a month for decent housing. This of course doesn't include heat, phone, electric, food or medicine.

I do believe that priorites in this country are not with the have nots, or the underpaid. I think W recently cut money to state programs that helped poor people get heat in the winter. But hey a few tax cuts out to help that, right? :wink:

Lance Man

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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Feb 27th 2003, 2:01 pm

Speaking of censorship, t.A.T.u. appeared on Jay Leno on Tuesday night, but just as the two girls began making out in the middle of the song, the cameras cut to the guitar player.

Jimmy Kimmel, being the guy that he is, called them and said to come on his show and he promised not to censor them. They appeared last night and actually looked quite awkward making out on camera. One of the girls also wrote something dirty (in Russian) on his hand.

Ironic that ABC, owned by Disney, showed them making out on tv. My boyfriend and I were debating whether they would get a fine from the FCC seeing as one of the girls grabbed the other's boobs and crotch.
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Post by TomSpeed » Feb 27th 2003, 3:31 pm

I missed tATu on two nights? It's hard to say if Kimmel will get fined for what the band did on stage. The FCC has been very liberal in terms of content recently. It doesn't surprise me that the girls seemed nervous. Kimmel's show is live. I'm not sure how many people watch his show, but I can imagine that the girls would be a little nervous. Plus, Kimmel probably told them to knock themselves out. ABC doesn't seem to be lending much support to Kimmel. I don't think there have been many stars from the Disney/ABC roster on his show. Jennifer Garner was the first top drawer star from the company to be on his show. So, ABC's censors might not be watching his show too closely.
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Feb 27th 2003, 4:12 pm

Well, they were watching enough on the first night it aired to revoke the liquor license, so you never know.

Jimmy has been quite vocal about the fact that he is getting little support from ABC. The first week, all of his guests were friends because ABC wasn't exactly helping him book big name guests. Apparently he isn't allowed to have guests from any NBC/CBS/FOX/WB/UPN shows, but ABC hasn't made an effort to encourage anyone on their shows to appear on Jimmy's show. For what it's worth, the show has been pretty amusing, even the night that he got really drunk and turned the monitors to another channel to let the audience watch another late night show.

:D
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Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

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Post by TomSpeed » Mar 1st 2003, 1:04 pm

I finally saw tAtu last night on Craig Kilborn's show. As expected, a few seconds after the girls started making out during their song, the cameraman cut away to the drummer. The studio audience seemed to enjoy their performance though.
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Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Post by andrewgd » Mar 11th 2003, 8:18 pm

I'm suprised nobody has brought this point up yet: I wonder what established gay artists think of them? I would love to hear what the Indigo Girls or Melissa Etheridge think of Tatu...
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Post by lance » Mar 11th 2003, 10:44 pm

andrewgd wrote:I'm suprised nobody has brought this point up yet: I wonder what established gay artists think of them? I would love to hear what the Indigo Girls or Melissa Etheridge think of Tatu...
Excellent point!

I will have to a google search on this later. Anybody have anything on this point?

Best,

Lance Man

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Post by mglenn » Mar 12th 2003, 11:06 am

I just don't see Ani Defranco or Amy and Emily of the Indigo Girls taking this well at all. They make it clear that its part of who they are but don;t go flawnting it on stage to sell more records. They want people to like their music for the message. And I'm quite sure that they feel part of their message is respect yourself.

As for the minimum wage debate... the issue is where does the money come from to pay for the wage increase? If you raise the minimum wage then the business must raise its rates of products or services it provides which means that the wage increase will not go as far.

Of course when you cut taxes across the board you give that same business more money, which they will either invest in another business or in their employees. The idea that they would horde it all to themselves is just dumb. It does nothing for them sitting in a savings account. They will invest it somehow and that investing will filter down to the working class family.

Then theirs the issue that when the tax cut comes the family is better off because they have more money as well, along with the chance that the working members will get a pay raise due to their employer having more money.
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Post by andrewgd » Mar 12th 2003, 4:59 pm

Since I brought them up, why does it seem that gay Women rockers write the most heartfelt, honest, soulful, gut-wrenching rock love songs?

I could probably name 20 songs that either Indigo Girls or Melissa Etheridge have written that still, after listening to them for years, still "stir the heart".

Anyone else agree? Any ideas as to why its these 3 artists?
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Post by fnordboy » Mar 12th 2003, 6:37 pm

andrewgd wrote:Since I brought them up, why does it seem that gay Women rockers write the most heartfelt, honest, soulful, gut-wrenching rock love songs?

I could probably name 20 songs that either Indigo Girls or Melissa Etheridge have written that still, after listening to them for years, still "stir the heart".

Anyone else agree? Any ideas as to why its these 3 artists?
I will sort of disagree here. Not that I don't agree that these artists write songs that are as you described, I'm sure they do, though I don't know first hand as they are not artists that I listen to.

There are plenty of bands, gay/straight/lesbian/male/female/etc that I listen to that write the most emotional songs that are the soundtrack to my life. Songs that no matter how old they are, or how many times I've listened to them, they will evoke such strong emotions in me.

I think it has to do with the fact that they are for the most part underappreciated (financially as well as fan base wise). Granted the likes of Melissa Etheridge isn't necessarily unwealthy, but I think you know what I mean. The more well known acts aren't really in the business because they need to express what is in their songs, most are in it for the money or that they can sing (though that is questionable ;) ).

The more "unknown" (and yes I am using that term very loosely) acts have this need to write and perform these songs that mean so much to us. They mean so much to us because they meant so much to them getting them out.

I think we need to start another thread on emotive lyrics :) and share some of our favorites.

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Post by andrewgd » Mar 12th 2003, 10:23 pm

fnordboy wrote:I think it has to do with the fact that they are for the most part underappreciated (financially as well as fan base wise).

The more "unknown" (and yes I am using that term very loosely) acts have this need to write and perform these songs that mean so much to us. They mean so much to us because they meant so much to them getting them out.

I think we need to start another thread on emotive lyrics :) and share some of our favorites.
Very good call. I hadn't broken it down to artistic ingtegrity, which obviously plays a huge role in the emotional quality of the song. I guess it was just that I was exposed to these two acts, and not so much of other, maybe more independant acts.

Good call on the other thread too....should be interesting...
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