the contradiction that we call Jordan

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
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Post by Guest » Jul 19th 2003, 3:15 pm

[quote="cinnamongirl12"] We don't know too much about jordan, but from So-Called Angels, we know that his father used to beat him and his brother up. I'm gonna guess that if Mr. Catalano hit his sons then he probably hit his wife, if Jordan's mom is still even in the picture. Even if he didn't hit the missus, he's a pretty evil guy and i can't imagine his parents having an ozzie and harriet relationship, or even the stability that Patty and Graham give Angela.

I don't think Jordan has a brother.I mean he never said anything about it.All he says in "So-Called Angels" is that his "old man used to knock him around too but hasn't done it in last couple of years..., cos' the last time he threw a chair at him"( no mention of a brother).

And if Jordan's father abused him, do you think there's a pretty good chance that Jordan will do the same to his wife or kid or whatever?Because like you guys pointed out he will only imitate what he's grown up with,right?
Tell me what you think.

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Natasha (candygirl)
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Jul 19th 2003, 3:33 pm

People tend to either imitate what they know or make a conscious effort to do the opposite. In Jordan's case, I would say that based on the way he treats Angela and his friends, he is trying to be a good person - as Jordan points out, he has NEVER lied to Angela and he has displayed loyalty towards his friends (showing up on Halloween even though he didn't want to be there) and compassion towards others (advising Rickie to leave on Halloween, offering to tell people that he and Angela mean nothing to each other to quell the sex rumor, taking Rickie to the warehouse). In addition, Jordan values his relationships and tries to keep the peace (like during band rehearsal). Although Angela feels wronged by Jordan several times throughout the show, most of his actions bear no ill will towards her. Jordan seems to have his own code of conduct, a sense of right and wrong that obviously differ from Angela's, but his intent is not malicious. The fact that Jordan had an abusive father contrasts with Jordan's own behavior, which is what leads me to believe that he is deliberately trying to be different from his father.
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You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

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Post by Guest » Jul 20th 2003, 1:13 pm

candygirl wrote:People tend to either imitate what they know or make a conscious effort to do the opposite. In Jordan's case, I would say that based on the way he treats Angela and his friends, he is trying to be a good person - as Jordan points out, he has NEVER lied to Angela and he has displayed loyalty towards his friends (showing up on Halloween even though he didn't want to be there) and compassion towards others (advising Rickie to leave on Halloween, offering to tell people that he and Angela mean nothing to each other to quell the sex rumor, taking Rickie to the warehouse). In addition, Jordan values his relationships and tries to keep the peace (like during band rehearsal). Although Angela feels wronged by Jordan several times throughout the show, most of his actions bear no ill will towards her. Jordan seems to have his own code of conduct, a sense of right and wrong that obviously differ from Angela's, but his intent is not malicious. The fact that Jordan had an abusive father contrasts with Jordan's own behavior, which is what leads me to believe that he is deliberately trying to be different from his father.
Yeah,but sometimes altough you try to be different from your parents , you unconsciously imitate them.For example, when it comes to abuse, no one says"I 'm going to abuse my kid",it's just something beyond your control.
Howewer I agree with you.Jordan is "not a haunted mind, not a toughtless kind"

Another question.I don't know if this is gonna sound right, but okay.Does Jordan strike you as a kind of guy who would ogle every girl that passes by?I mean I always thought that he's the kind of guy who's like"I don't care what they look like as long as they put out"(of course if the girl is good looking it's better because of his reputation not because he likes the girl).I don't know if that makes sense .Anyway,what do you guys say? 8)

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Natasha (candygirl)
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Jul 20th 2003, 7:58 pm

Anonymous wrote:Yeah,but sometimes altough you try to be different from your parents , you unconsciously imitate them.For example, when it comes to abuse, no one says"I 'm going to abuse my kid",it's just something beyond your control.
Yes, sometimes people unconsciously imitate their parents, but people who are aware that they are modeling unacceptable behavior CAN break the cycle. Not everyone who has crappy parents ends up being a crappy parent or dysfunctional person.

As far as abuse being "something beyond your control," I totally disagree. Anyone who chooses to hit their kids is CHOOSING to let their temper control them rather than choosing to control their own temper and take responsibility for their actions.
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

speechless

Post by speechless » Jul 22nd 2003, 2:07 pm

I never posted anything on this site, but I really liked the show.

Altough I enjoyed the show very much,I REALLY disliked(maybe even hated) Jordan Catalano.First of all,he is soooo dumb(C'mon -"So getting back to that metamorphosis story-it's made up,right? or "AngeLLa", he doesn't know what cuticles are for god sake).Secondly,the way he hurts Angela.Instead of being grateful that such a beatiful and genuine person cares about him,he craps all over her saying stuff like" You're kind of crowding me" or calling her "abnormal" or sleeping with her best friend(altough I don't think it was his fault that Angela got hurt in WJCR-that was self-induced).And the truly frightening thing is that she forgives him.And what really pisses me of is when in "IDBR" Patty says something like" It's pretty clear that you never meant to hurt her" and I was like HUH?!" You ARE her mother,right?"

As for people who say that Angela isn't pretty enough to be with him,you couldn't be more wrong.Angela is unusually attractive,unique.But I guess, you'd have to walk around half-naked to be worthy of a certain Jordan Catalano.Angela has substance,class,intelligence.She could probably accomplish everything

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Post by Guest » Jul 25th 2003, 2:22 pm

speechless wrote:I never posted anything on this site, but I really liked the show.

Altough I enjoyed the show very much,I REALLY disliked(maybe even hated) Jordan Catalano.First of all,he is soooo dumb(C'mon -"So getting back to that metamorphosis story-it's made up,right? or "AngeLLa", he doesn't know what cuticles are for god sake).Secondly,the way he hurts Angela.Instead of being grateful that such a beatiful and genuine person cares about him,he craps all over her saying stuff like" You're kind of crowding me" or calling her "abnormal" or sleeping with her best friend(altough I don't think it was his fault that Angela got hurt in WJCR-that was self-induced).And the truly frightening thing is that she forgives him.And what really pisses me of is when in "IDBR" Patty says something like" It's pretty clear that you never meant to hurt her" and I was like HUH?!" You ARE her mother,right?"

As for people who say that Angela isn't pretty enough to be with him,you couldn't be more wrong.Angela is unusually attractive,unique.But I guess, you'd have to walk around half-naked to be worthy of a certain Jordan Catalano.Angela has substance,class,intelligence.She could probably accomplish everything
I agree with everything you said about Angela, she is a unique person, but I think you are a bit off when it comes to Jordan.I mean the guy has his issues but he's not the bastard you make him out to be,you know?
Tomspeed I think Jordan's reaction to Angela's interest in Corey is typical male bahavior.He has taken Angela for granted.It isn't until he sees her with somebody else that he realizes that he wants and needs her.People usually have a greater value when somebody else wants them.Jordan now must decide whether to go out on a limb and pursue Angela.Does he risk rejection?We don'r really know how many times he's seen Angela and Corey.Time is often truncated for TV.One incident might be meant to represent a dozen incidents.So, faced with the possibility of losing Angela,jordan gets drunk.He wants to forget how stupidly let Angela get away.I think Jordan's behavior fits a pattern.He cares about her, but he doesn't wan't to risk showing how he feels.He's fine with having her sit around waiting for him to approach her.And he feels badly when she decides to stop wasting time waiting for him.
Exactly.He doesn't show his feelings because he is afraid of getting hurt.But I can imagine how he felt when he saw Angela with Corey.Here he is thinking Angela is probably one and only person who really cares about him,who looks at him with those adoring eyes, who cares what happens to him and now all of a sudden she's talking to "that guy Corey" and Jordan is like"sometimes I really think I know her and then it'll be like we're total strangers."I gotta say that he looked really sad when Graff said that "Angela didn't come and it's like usual" or when he asked whether Angela likes Corey.I must say that I felt kinda bad( just a little)for him.[/list]

koko

jordan was an ass

Post by koko » Jul 26th 2003, 3:56 am

i just finished watching the dvd set recently after not having seen the show in almost ten years. damn was i naive and clueless about guys at that time. now that i have had an ample amount of experience i can agree with speechless that yes, jordan was an asshole. he never did anything genuine for angela--the only thing he wanted from her was sex. there is no evidence otherwise. from the very beginning all he wanted was sex and he became infuriated when she refused to give it to him. i mean he dumped her just because of it? who would forgive a guy like that? then he slept with rayanne just to spit in angela's face. jordan and angela barely had a relationship-they could hardly talk to each other. they didn't have anything in common. furthermore, he had the I.Q of patio furniture and he was really not that attractive--but maybe that was considered attractive in 1994 i guess. i admit i found him very hot--when i was 10!

there was one tiny little quote from him about his past when he tells rickie that his dad used to "knock him around" and that softened me a little but it's still no excuse to use angela for sex. god and she forgave him. that's what pissed me off the most. there was no good reason to take him back. i mean who knows what would have happened after the show got cancelled, so we don't know if the fact that brian actually wrote that letter would have changed her mind. through all these years after the show was cancelled, there were so many girls who watched the show, talking about how hot and wonderful jordan was but i'm wondering, were they as naive and clueless as i was the last time they saw the show, or do they really have such little self respect to think that kind of guy is wonderful? bah..brian and rickie were the only decent guys on the show, but brian was a total nerd and rickie was gay! i'm just saying, they weren't angela's type. even graham was close to cheating on pattie. that bugged me a little how it wasn't much of a big deal on the show, like all married men are so closely tempted like that from time to time and he was still portrayed as a great husband. i mean he was so close to meeting that woman at a motel in the 2nd episode--not to mention that near-kiss in the last episode with hallie...

anyway thanks to anyone for actually reading this. it's really been bugging me the last couple of days...i know i sound a little obsessed but i have just spent the last four days straight watching the entire series and it has consumed my mind a little..this has helped though. whether anyone reads this or not it's off my chest...

speechless

Re: jordan was an ass

Post by speechless » Jul 26th 2003, 1:59 pm

Even graham was close to cheating on pattie. that bugged me a little how it wasn't much of a big deal on the show, like all married men are so closely tempted like that from time to time and he was still portrayed as a great husband. i mean he was so close to meeting that woman at a motel in the 2nd episode--not to mention that near-kiss in the last episode with hallie...

Yeah, I mean Graham had two "almost" affairs, and he is a good husband.Plus, later on he was thinking about that annoying Hallie person all the time.And I don't know, maybe I am a bit naive but I just think that a good husband( or wife for that matter) shouldn't think about somebody else all the time.It was pretty obvious that Patty was annoyed with Hallie altough she was faking that she wasn't but Graham obviously didn't care about that.

[/quote]furthermore,he had the I.Q of patio furniture and he was really not that attractive-but maybe that was attractive in 1994 i guess.i admit i found him very hot--when i was 10!

Okay, he was kinda cute but he was definately not that big a deal.Teenage girls are really exaggerating when it comes to guys like that.And I have to say that I only liked how Jared looked in MSCL.Look at the way he looks in "Fight Club"(man he's blond) or "Requiem"(damn skinny).

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jordan was an ass

Post by grim4746 » Jul 29th 2003, 1:12 am

I have to agree with Koko that jordan was an ass. BUt I'm not convinced that he only wanted sex from her. I think sex was the only thing he was certain he wanted but I believe that he always wanted more but just never made any effort to figure out exactly what he wanted. But that might just be because of how dumb he is. I guess it's not a big distinction anyway.
As for Graham, I didn't think his near cheating was presented as not a big deal. Angela was messed up by what she saw in the pilot which although very suggestive really wasn't very much. And I definately think Graham's fidelity issues had not finished playing out. I think that had the series contiued Graham would have been unquestionably a bad husband. but maybe he would have been able to be better to Hallie or which ever woman finally came between him and Patty.
And i have to say that i thought jordan was cute, at least when he didn't have too much of a mullett.

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Post by Nostradamus » Jul 29th 2003, 3:44 pm

Er, technically, I don't think Jordan ever had a mullet. A proper mullet is short in the front and long in the back; Jordan's hair was equally long (or, in the pilot, short) all the way around. Um, I don't know why, but somehow I thought was important to mention. Carry on.

:wink:
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Post by Nothingman » Jul 29th 2003, 4:26 pm

A mullet is business up front and all party in the back. Jordon had no business to his hair, it was all party. He was simply growing it out.
http://www.mulletjunky.com/
Behold the beauty that is the mullet. :shocked!:
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Post by TomSpeed » Jul 29th 2003, 5:43 pm

I know way too much about mullets after going to that site. Thanks!
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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grim4746
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mullet police

Post by grim4746 » Jul 30th 2003, 9:55 pm

Okay you got me. It was never a mullet, my phobia of such hairstyles has made me jump the gun a bit. It is technically true that his hair was the same length all the way around and it was the position on his head that caused his hair to be lower in the back than in the front. I'm a little ashamed to say i've relaxed my objections to the mullet (and it's look-a-like cousin that i have no name for) over time and sometimes think that it can look good.

whatever

what a dumbass

Post by whatever » Aug 3rd 2003, 6:30 am

Jordan Catalano?Yeah, that guy sucks big time.He's stupid,obnoxiuos and has greasy hair.Oh yeah,when Angela said that maybe he has dyslexia,I don't think that's true.He was just way to stupid to learn how to read,but of course she's so into him that she is too blind to see it.Oh well, what can you do? 8)

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Post by TomSpeed » Aug 4th 2003, 9:33 am

I don't think Jordan is stupid. I'll quote Hallie Lowenthal's assessment of Jordan to Patty in "Pressure:"
Hallie : Psh. You're asking a *man* [to Graham, Brad] -- sorry, sorry -- to describe someone when I'm sitting here? Here's what he's like -- fairly -- out of it, not unintelligent. Sort of um -- stray puppy, you know the type you're always trying to ease their pain. He may even be a halfway decent person, but let me tell you -- *trouble*. *Way* too gorgeous.
Things have always come easy for Jordan. He's probably lazy. He also probably has an actual reading problem. His feelings for Angela seem to grow during the year.

I think Hallie also has a good read into Angela, even though they haven't met. Angela wants to ease Jordan's pain. She does Jordan's homework and signs him up for tutoring. Also, it's interesting that Angela mentions in another episode that she imagines she would be a nurse when she falls in love. Angela's a caregiver. Jordan needs care.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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