Discussion for Episode 5: the Zit

[Grace]

Thank you. I did a bit of research, but I didn't find anything.
When I look for "Mary Kwant fashion" google shows me this site.

[hurtstolookatyou]

Thank you. I did a bit of research, but I didn't find anything.
When I look for "Mary Kwant fashion" google shows me this site.

piqued my curiousity so i tried to look....the name is spelt wrong. it's Quant.

here's a web site i found with info on the designer:

http://www.swinginchicks.com/mary_quant.htm

i dunno about patty and rickie....the fabric doesn't resemble what this site says is her "style". i guess it is a bright fabric with lots of colours...but to me looks a bit more like laura ashley .

[Natasha (candygirl)]

You beat me to it!

Mary Quant was a famous fashion designer in the 60s - she moved pop culture fashion away from the proper conservative styles (think singers wearing long gowns and gloves, Jackie Kennedy) to what we think of as the quintissential swinging 60s style (as parodied in Austin Powers).

Her two biggest contributions - mini skirts and hot pants! Yeah baby, very grrr!

[igor]

GRAHAM

i like that graham TOTALLY stays out of angela's and patty's way during the talent show argument. i also think it's pretty sweet and realistic the way he talks to patty about her wrinkles..
and she's right to say that women find graham more attractive as he gets older... it's something that he isstarting to notice as well.

Uh,this is my first time.I mean,that I posted something.Not in my whole life,oh well you know what I mean.Assuming someone will actually read my junk.

I agree with the post above.We know that Graham is attractive but we also know that it was not always so.
In the Pilot he says how Patty had 900 friends and "meanwhile I couldn't get a girl to look at me" and in this ep. he says that he had zits.So it's pretty obvious he was no Jordan Catalano in highschool.Meanwhile,Patty was the prettiest girl in school.They probably hooked up in their early twenties and dated for a while.Patty was extremely beautiful and he wasn't.So I think that somewhere in her mind Patty thought she was doing him a favour and she felt extremely self-confident.But now the tables have turned.She is getting older and her good looks are fading,as is her good self-image while Graham's point of view is similar to Camille's("I can't go anywhere but up").

I think it's pretty hard for beautiful people to deal with their aging because less attractive people think" so I have a few wrinkles,so what?It's not like anyone will notice."

And I have to say,the way Patty dealt with Angela's problems was just awful.That girl is so self-conscious,and all Miss Patty Queen can think about is herself.She didn't even thought about Angela and the effect that it might have on her.Patty's good looks undoubtedly contributed Angela's self-consciousness.That's probably the reason why they don't have a very good relationship.Well that and the fact that Patty is a complete control freak. [/img][/list]

[Guest]

I liked "The Zit" episode because I can truly relate to it. I am not sure if Angela felt as if there was something wrong with her because she couldn't get guys to notice her. But that is how I felt or maybe I still feel this way. It is strange because in a way I believe that Angela wanted to be noticed (as in her beauty), but at the same time wanted to be seen as an individual and be known for her personality. In the "Guns and Gossip" episode towards the end of this episode Rayanne talks about how great the attention was for Angela. While Angela denies the whole thing with a smile. I believe that the smile clearly showed that Angela in a sense did enjoy it, except for the incident in history class, - when the classmate tried picking her up.
Also I had feelings of "not stacking up" and still feel this way. I'm glad that the show addressed that because I don't think I am the only one in the world like that. A classmate of mine mentioned that "all the girls stuff their bras." Yes I know this is an exaggeration, but I'm sure you get my point.
Another thing is I could relate to what Brian and Rickie were saying, "When did people pair off?" It was in middle school that people still thought that dating was weird. Don't ask me why. Then once a person is catapulted into high school you see people french kissing in the hallway. All I have to say is what a drastic change.
I agree with the above post. Patty did take Angela's insecurities the wrong way, but maybe Patty herself was blinded by her own insecurities and wanting to have Angela have the same thing that Patty had herself. Maybe even Patty didn't want this for Angela maybe she was just projecting how she, Patty herself felt. If a person looks at this show in a psychoanalytical way it ties up a lot of loose ends also.
Another thing is that I think that the prettiest girl on the poll isn't that pretty I think that Angela is much prettier. but that is just my opinion. Is this suppose to be symbolic that the poll is not that accurate (exceptions: Rayanne and Sharon.) Also "beauty rests in the eye of the beholder." So I probably shouldn't make such a statement.
I also felt sad that a close friend of mine had a boyfriend before I ever did. So I could relate to what Angela said in the beginning.
The last scene of this episode which someone did mention is very poignant. I also agree is poignant its just so true and deep at the same time. I love it!!! I love many of the last scenes in the episodes of MSCL.

[igor]

"So why Angela instead? There's all the surface stuff, the importance of which is not to be underestimated. More often than not, it's the little things about characters in books and movies which pull us in. And so it goes with Angela. She's stunningly attractive in that unstraightforward way where real beauty lurks. She has those little idiosyncracies which you end up latching onto when you fall for someone, as opposed to the bland statistical beauty of, say, mainstream modeling. And here I'm clearly riding some kind of line between wouldn't I love to look like her and wouldn't I love to go out with someone who looked like her. She's got her totally identifyable style of dress, centering around that shirt. Don't I still try to build an identity in part with my wardrobe? Why else do I smile so much when someone says I've got my own style and they like it. Then there's her body language, that awkward posture and limb position I find so totally familiar. And she dances around her room in a way totally different from how she acts in public. Also hauntingly familiar. I guess I find the shy and awkward mannerisms, and the self-doubt they manifest, so appealing because so unneccesary. In the capable, fetching and charming, such humbleness is becoming. She really could be all the things she thinks she can't, and isn't this how I want to see myself? Secretly capable despite my doubts, even conviction of the opposite. Definately not doomed." from Breathless

I just thought this description of Angela is sooo on right track.It also confirms what the post above said that "Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder".For example,Angela is self-conscious about her chest.But I really didn't see throughout the show that Brian( or Jordan for that matter)had any problems with that.I think someone on this thread already mentioned that they never dissected her to certain parts( you know breasts, butt).They find her attractive just the way she is.

[Hunee]

the zits final scene is definitly one of my favorites and her VO is just so beautiful...

Sometimes it seems like we're all living in, like, some kind of prison. And the crime is how much we hate ourselves. It's good to get really dressed up, once in a while. And admit the truth. That when you really look closely, people are so strange and so complicated that they're actually...beautiful. Possibly even me.

[Sophia CH4]

In many ways, Graham breaks male stereotypes. Patty talks about her wrinkles in almost the same way women talk about their weight. Yes, Graham could have swerved her concerns by saying that he didn't notice any wrinkles. That's a guy's natural reaction. However, he does a brave thing. He acknowledges that the wrinkles exist. He's being honest. However, his love for Patty shines through. He loves her, wrinkles and all.

i must confess i sometimes (quite often actually) dislike graham, he just seems like a weak character, and i know i'm probably bein' a bitch about it,but if he loves patty wrinkles and all, why does he even consider sleeping with that chick, who was like half his age

[TomSpeed]

This is discussed elsewhere in the forum, but it's natural for people to be attracted to other people. People must, however, choose to act on their attraction for others. It's common for older married men to be attracted to younger unmarried women. Some men act on this attraction. Others choose not to act. Graham constantly fights against his attraction for other women. In "Pilot," we see Graham is his early contemplation phase. He's thinking about cheating. And he's evaluating the risks that cheating will bring. He decides not to pursue the younger woman. But this decision does not mean he will not be tempted to cheat again.

[Sophia CH4]

It's common for older married men to be attracted to younger unmarried women..

my old man is about graham's age and just the idea of him, like messing around with chicks my age makes me wanna puke, and if something like that actually did happen, i would rip his head off. and just because something is common it doesn't make it right.




tomspeed wrote;

Graham constantly fights against his attraction for other women. In "Pilot," we see Graham is his early contemplation phase. He's thinking about cheating. And he's evaluating the risks that cheating will bring. He decides not to pursue the younger woman. But this decision does not mean he will not be tempted to cheat again.

graham is a weak character and i don't really see him fighting against his attraction for other women or if he is, he's making a lousy job of it, because he constantly flirts, first the girl from the pilot, and then of course hallie lowenthal. people say how nothing in life is simple-if a man loves his wife and decides to be faithful to her, then he will not constantly put himself in a compromising situation like graham did so many times,it's as simple as that.

[Guest]

This is discussed elsewhere in the forum, but it's natural for people to be attracted to other people. People must, however, choose to act on their attraction for others. It's common for older married men to be attracted to younger unmarried women. Some men act on this attraction. Others choose not to act. Graham constantly fights against his attraction for other women. In "Pilot," we see Graham is his early contemplation phase. He's thinking about cheating. And he's evaluating the risks that cheating will bring. He decides not to pursue the younger woman. But this decision does not mean he will not be tempted to cheat again.

I agree that it's normal to be attracted to other people and thatit's common for older man to be attracted to younger women, and I think that goes both ways.Women who have been married for a longer period of time also have all sorts of fantasies about guys in their prime( altough they don't talk about it as much as do men).But, I also agree with Sophia CH4 that he wasn't just attracted to someone else (because I'm attracted to someone other than my boyfriend ten times a day), he also made plans to slepp with that girl( exact time and a place) but changed his mind at the last minute and he was always staying late talking to Hallie later in the show.But if he was to cheat it wouldn't be beacuse he's sex crazed or hungry for some fresh meat, it would be because he is unhappy with his marriage and his role in it.He obviously feels emasculated with the fact that his wife is his boss and flirting with that girl is his way of saying" see?I can do stuff without you and your control." Because Patty resembles Jordan in one way- they both took their partners for granted ( not until "Betrayal" when he saw her with Corey did he realize he might loose Angela ). Patty never listens to Graham, for ex. in #Pilot when they are in bed and Graham's like.."having sex like we did" it obvious he wants sex, like right now, and she doesn't even notice that.Or whenever thay have a misunderstanding he's always the one who has to compromise his opinion in order to match hers.And she does fire him so he can do what he really wants but that's after fifteen years of selling printing and being treated like crap by her entire family.And yes she decides to be 100% supportive, but that's only when Hallie enters their lifes.And above all, Graham wants to feel needed;

Graham:I like it when you're.....when you actually need me.

Patty:Of course I need you.

( Father Figures)

I don't think that this casual reassurance is enough for Graham. I think that Jordan Catalano did a better job in IDBR, explaining his need for Angela.


Sophia CH4wrote;

my old man is about graham's age and just the idea of him, like messing around with chicks my age makes me wanna puke, and if something like that actually did happen, i would rip his head off. and just because something is common it doesn't make it right.

Okay, you're 20 years old and Angela said the girl was in her twenties.But I don't think she was really your age.She was maybe in late twenties or early thirties.And altough there is an age difference between GRAHAM and the girl, it's not as shocking as you make it out to be.


Does all of this make any sense to you?

[svenkid]

lol, Jordan to Brian > "so this metamorhisis story, is like, made up, right?"

[MSCL Fan]

Did anyone else get a little emotional when Angela started to cry when she saw how happy Danielle was to walk down the aisle with her mom in the fashion show? Were there any other reasons why Angela started to cry, that I might've missed?

[Stick]

Does anyone know what's going on during the credits?
I don't think they're in character because I can hear someone say "Come on, Claire."

[Mutajon]

Just a little tidbit I don't think was mentioned before (could be wrong though)...

At the beginning of the episode we see a "Don't Smoke" poster in the girls bathroom, asking you "Who looks better?" comparing a smoking girl and a non-smoking(perfect, smiling blond) one.



Latter that same episode, we see the same poster - after it was given a little "touch up" by the inhabiting girls... The "Don't" word has been cut off, and the non-smoking girl has been
sketched all over (and the word "PIG" written on her)...



When first we see this poster, we see Rayanne playing with her finger on the non-smoking girl's face - is this a hint the she will be the one to draw the beard and "mutilate" the poster?