Some things I noticed...

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
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Megs
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Some things I noticed...

Post by Megs » Nov 21st 2002, 9:44 pm

I just finished watching So Called Angels and Resolutions, and I noticed a few things that I would like input on (please forgive the fragments and run-on sentences).

1. So Called Angels. When Angela and Jordan are talking about Rickie in the hallway, and Jordan tells her that he can take her to the warehouse that Jordan took Rickie to (first of all, Jordan was very sweet, understanding and sensitive in that scene. I forgot that aspect of his personality...) when they turn and walk away, Jordan grabs her hand and they kind of swing their arms together, like children often do. I rewound it three times, and I definitely saw that. It just seemed out of place in the scene. They are talking about a very upsetting subject (Rickie being homeless), and they look like they are skipping away happily at the end. Very odd.

2. Just an honest opinion: I love So Called Angels, and I always cry, but, man, is Juliana Hatfield a terrible actress. I love the idea of her character, her voice, and her music, but the way she delivers her lines... it just rubs me the wrong way.

3. Resolutions. Mr. Katimsky wears a gold wedding ring on his left finger in the guidance office when he and Mrs. Kr-something (Winnie, right?) are tryng to get Rickie into the Pride House. At the end of Resolutions, when Mr. K is talking to (presumably) his lover about Rickie, he is not wearing a wedding ring. Is this significant in any way, or just another goof?

4. This I noticed in a few of the earlier episodes (forgive me, but I forget exactly which ones). Rickie seems to know where Jordan should be, such as when and where he has class. He knows what hall that Angela should wait in to "run into" Jordan before shop, because "Jordan never ditches shop"... Is this an indication that Rickie had/has a crush on Jordan as well? There were a few other examples of this that have slipped my mind now, but it made me wonder...

5. What is WITH Hallie's humongous bag? It is almost as big as she is! Is this symbolism, as well?

Ok. That's all I have to say about that. Let me know what you think.

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Re: Some things I noticed...

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 21st 2002, 9:47 pm

Megs wrote:5. What is WITH Hallie's humongous bag? It is almost as big as she is! Is this symbolism, as well?
I'm on my way out the door, so I chose the question with the shortest answer - I think Hallie's bag is a symbol of her emotional baggage. She has issues!

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Ring

Post by glitter_punk » Nov 21st 2002, 11:20 pm

About the Mr. Katimski thing.. many men wear those rings for fashion... other things I can't explain.
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Post by starbug » Nov 22nd 2002, 6:02 am

For the Rickie always knowing where Jordan is, I definitely took it that he has a crush on Jordan too - that's why Angela says 'oh Rickie' in a sympathetic, sort of shocked voice.

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Post by Nostradamus » Nov 22nd 2002, 6:24 am

Remember the pilot: "Don't you just love the way he leans."

:P

Oh, and while we're noticing things, the book that Jordan leaves in class in "The Substitute" is "Of Mice And Men" by John Steinbeck. I love frame by frame advance.
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Re: Some things I noticed...

Post by NIGHTJESSI » Nov 22nd 2002, 11:20 am

Megs, my take on why Jordan and Angela are holding hands in So Called Angels wasn't one where they were happily walking through the hallway. I took it as Jordan comforting Angela during this time of worry about Rickie, by grabbing her hand and leading her to where Rickie was. Maybe that's just the HR in me, but the moment happens so quickly that I took it as just another facet of Jordan and Angela's connection and how they act toward each other.
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Re: Some things I noticed...

Post by Megs » Nov 22nd 2002, 12:55 pm

Good point... but the swinging of the hands really struck me as odd and out of place in the context of the scene. I could understand him just grabbing her hand and leading her away, but why would he swing it?

And the comment about how some men wear rings as fashion can be true. But it really looked like a wedding ring...

Thanks for the responses... :)
NIGHTJESSI wrote:Megs, my take on why Jordan and Angela are holding hands in So Called Angels wasn't one where they were happily walking through the hallway. I took it as Jordan comforting Angela during this time of worry about Rickie, by grabbing her hand and leading her to where Rickie was. Maybe that's just the HR in me, but the moment happens so quickly that I took it as just another facet of Jordan and Angela's connection and how they act toward each other.
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Some things you noticed...

Post by likelife » Nov 25th 2002, 5:50 pm

Megs -
About the things that you noticed...

-- I think that it was a little out of place when Jordan and Angela are holding hands in "SO-called Angels," but I sort of took it as a) he was being supportive, b) high schoolers always want to touch each other and never really know how, so now that Jordan is taking Angela somewhere, he has a perfect excuse to take her hand, and c) because the show does such a good job of pulling us in and making us feel intimately connected with the characters, we forget that we do not see them every day. maybe Jordan and Angela have a sometimes-we-hold-hands thing going on, I mean, he DOES still know the combo to her locker!

-- I agree that Julianna H's acting is less than perfect, but I liked the songs of hers that the show used. I guess we can forgive the acting because she may have just been a figment of all of the characters imaginations -- a collective consciousness thing, if you will. If you see Patty as Scrooge (and I believe that's been written about on this very website!!!) then you can see JH's character as a force who is leading the characters to their destinies, and not an actual person. like the ghost of xmas past, or present or future.

-- Yep, Hallie's bag is emotional baggage. It's also a terrible left-over of the hugs tote bag purse things from the eighties. Remember, Hallie is younger than patty and Graham, so she was probably a late teen in the eighties. Still has the big hair and the big bag.

-- Rickie has a crush on Jordan, but a very far removed one... he is totally untouchable to most GIRLS who want him, so Rickie knows it's a lost cause. I think the crush is esp. evident in the episode where Jordan plays "Red" for Angela. When he walks up to Rickie in the hallway in the very last scene, Rickie tries to shrug off the conversation about why Angela is so upset. Jordan say, "no" and puts his hand on Rickie's shoulder. Rickie looks at his hand, and then turns to continue the conversation.

I think that about covers it..

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One more thing

Post by likelife » Nov 25th 2002, 5:53 pm

And about Mr. Katimsky and the ring, I wouldn't be surprised if he PURPOSELY wore the ring to seem more "respectable" (i.e. possibly straight and married) when he went to speak about Rickie. Remember, he is not really comfortable sharing his sexuality in the workplace. I have known people who wear wedding-type rings in the work place or while they are traveling in order to protect their private lives a bit.

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Re: Some things you noticed...

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 27th 2002, 3:05 am

likelife wrote:because the show does such a good job of pulling us in and making us feel intimately connected with the characters, we forget that we do not see them every day. maybe Jordan and Angela have a sometimes-we-hold-hands thing going on, I mean, he DOES still know the combo to her locker.
I agree - there is a lot that we don't see. I mean, there is no explanation as to how Angela and Jordan progressed from the "Why are you like this? Like how you are?" conversation in the parking lot of the World Happiness Dance to making out in the boiler room.

When Angela tries to convince Jordan to go to class (to avoid being expelled), she says she has a message from Miss Lerner. Jordan has no idea who she is talking about. Angela reminds him that Miss Lerner has been their English teacher for over a month, yet only two episodes earlier Vic was their sub, meaning a month elapses in the time span between the end of the Substitute and the beginning of Halloween (Strangers in the House is the only episode between the two). I'm sure that Sharon's dad's heart attack is not the only thing that happened in that month, but that is all we know about.

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Post by Megs » Nov 27th 2002, 12:35 pm

I guess what I was trying to say was that I wasn't surprised that Jordan grabebd Angela's hand as support. I was surprised that they were swinging their hands. I just thought that it seemed out of place. The hand holding didn't, but the swinging of the hands did. Does that make any sense?
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Post by TomSpeed » Jan 28th 2003, 10:58 am

In many ways, Jordan represents Rickie's obsession/unobtainable dream and Jordan plays the same role for Angela. Rickie's obsession is more painful, because Jordan seems in all respects clearly heterosexual. Angela at least has a chance to get Jordan's attention. It's interesting that Angela uses Rickie in her pursuit of Jordan in a way that's very much like how she uses Brian. It's Rickie's curse to have homosexual feelings and have no outlet for them.

I attended high school (10th to 12th grades at the time, although I believe high school grades changed to 9th-12th grades in my hometown after I graduated) in the years 1983-1986. I only remember one or two openly gay classmates. Although, there were probably more than those few. I think the level of acceptance of gays/lesbians in high schools has probably increased since I was a teenager.

However, during the time period of MSCL, homosexuals still seem to encounter hatred, misunderstanding, and fear. Additionally, the pains of being a teenager can only be increased if one is different in such an elemental way than almost everyone else.
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swinging of the hands

Post by Lindsay » Jan 30th 2003, 12:20 am

I have to disagree, and say that I thought that whole scence was great! I loved how Jordon took Angela's hand after offering to help out, and must say the actual swinging of the hands looked very natural, and fit in. I don't know why, I can understand what you mean because it IS such a serious subject, but I feel it totally adds.

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Post by Guest » Jan 30th 2003, 6:28 am

I noticed Mr K's ring too ( its really noticible in that scene) but figured maybe the actor is married forgot to take his ring off and no one noticed ...

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Jordan and Angela hand holding swing thing

Post by TooCool4Skool » Nov 5th 2004, 8:04 pm

Megs Wrote:
I just finished watching So Called Angels and Resolutions, and I noticed a few things that I would like input on (please forgive the fragments and run-on sentences).

1. So Called Angels. When Angela and Jordan are talking about Rickie in the hallway, and Jordan tells her that he can take her to the warehouse that Jordan took Rickie to (first of all, Jordan was very sweet, understanding and sensitive in that scene. I forgot that aspect of his personality...) when they turn and walk away, Jordan grabs her hand and they kind of swing their arms together, like children often do. I rewound it three times, and I definitely saw that. It just seemed out of place in the scene. They are talking about a very upsetting subject (Rickie being homeless), and they look like they are skipping away happily at the end. Very odd.
How I viewed this part is completely different. I think that this was Jordan sub-consciously acting out. What I mean is that at this time he is feeling (sub-consciously) the loss of Angela. And, here's his chance to act on his feelings- he misses her... but won't admit it to himself. He sees that Angela's brain is somewhere else, and is taking advantage of the situation (Once again- sub-consciously). At this stage he doesn't understand his feelings. All he knows is that he likes holding her hand. Throughout the hand-holding thing, Angela (surprisingly) doesn't read into it, for her mind is somewhere else- Rickie. I think the whole "swinging of arms" was Jordan's actions. He likes the familiarity of the situation... and is happy. Happy = swinging of arms. Now, this whole thing, I think, doesn't play in Jordan's head. He isn't thinking, "God I miss her, I think I should hold her hand, because it makes me feel good." I think it's blurry for him- like I said he can't explain it, but he doesn't care why, he just acts on it.

Hopefully, that made some sense. Sorry, I ramble frequently.
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