Star Wars Original Trilogy Petition

This is the place to discuss new and old movies or DVD releases of movies. You can also create topics about your favorite actor/actress.
Please post topics related to new productions of the MSCL cast and crew into the "Afterlife" forum.
User avatar
lance
Ed Zwick Wannabe
Posts: 1983
Joined: Jul 6th 2002, 4:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

darth lucas

Post by lance » May 14th 2003, 9:45 am

The thing is that somewhere along the line, whatever concessions Lucas had to make while filming that first movie did two things. First, it kept him from ever doing another "American Graphitti", a completely human story that has a tone missing from the current trilogy. By never directing another "Graphitti", I think Lucas forgot how to write human interaction. Not fantasy chat - REAL interaction. Like when Han asks Luke if he could see him with Leia, and Luke says no.

That's real, and it was in hyper-space. I don't see that in the new films.

Gary
Gary and heater_05,

Man you guys are so dead on about Lucas. Gary I like you point as quoted above. I have been watching the two prequels and something kept bothering me. I kept asking myself, why don't I like these movies.

Gary you have illustrated the point exactly: writing and good dialogue. All the characters in the prequel seem to lack depth. They all seem like cardboard cut outs.

Best,

Lance Man

User avatar
fnordboy
Ed Zwick Wannabe
Posts: 1954
Joined: Sep 25th 2002, 10:29 am
Location: Exit 16E, NJ
Contact:

Re: darth lucas

Post by fnordboy » May 14th 2003, 1:18 pm

lance wrote: Man you guys are so dead on about Lucas. Gary I like you point as quoted above. I have been watching the two prequels and something kept bothering me. I kept asking myself, why don't I like these movies.

Gary you have illustrated the point exactly: writing and good dialogue. All the characters in the prequel seem to lack depth. They all seem like cardboard cut outs.
It is not only that, but the fact that they are more kid's movies than the OT were. When I walked out of the theater after the Phantom Menace I was very disappointed because I felt like I had just sat through a kids movie, and not even a good one at that. Granted, the first OT were definitely for the enjoyment all ages, but there was also something 'grown up' about them. That is lacking in the newer releases.

Maybe that feeling is just an extension of the cardboard cut outs and the crap dialogue. I don't know.

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » May 14th 2003, 1:20 pm

I have only seen the first prequel so far, but I concur. The writing and the dialogue are very wooden. I finally figured out what it reminds me of - Titanic. Both movies had the potential to be really great (and I don't just mean in terms of money) epic stories, but the lame writing is what's holding both of them back.

I have the second prequel sitting on top of the DVD player. Netflix sent it to me about a month ago and I still can't bring myself to watch it!

George, why hast thou forsaken us?
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » May 14th 2003, 2:38 pm

I liked SW2 much better than SW1. Although, neither movie can hold a candle to the original trilogy. I'd go ahead and watch it, Candygirl. Get it over with.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

User avatar
fnordboy
Ed Zwick Wannabe
Posts: 1954
Joined: Sep 25th 2002, 10:29 am
Location: Exit 16E, NJ
Contact:

Post by fnordboy » May 14th 2003, 2:45 pm

TomSpeed wrote:I liked SW2 much better than SW1. Although, neither movie can hold a candle to the original trilogy. I'd go ahead and watch it, Candygirl. Get it over with.
I always said that too, but I am not sure anymore which I thought was "better". The problem is that they both have their downfalls.

Ep2 is better in the sense that the acting is not as cringe inducing as in Ep1, primarily because of the absence of lil anakin. I thought the dialogue and writing in Ep2 was worse though. It is a tough call either way.

I agree though, you should watch it candygirl, then we can mock it together :lol:

User avatar
Nothingman
Liberty High Graduate
Posts: 704
Joined: Feb 26th 2003, 3:39 pm
Location: Hockey Falls, USA
Contact:

Post by Nothingman » May 14th 2003, 3:37 pm

I agree that the new episodes lack character depth. Even in the second one, we learn more about their background, but we still know little about who they really are personality wise, or maybe i just miss the inteaction between Luke and Han. Most of the character depth seems to be borrowed fro the original trillogy. Perhaps it is my age now, but the new movies seem aimed towards kids more than the old one's. Do they feel a bit like a saturday morning cartoon to anyone else?

I've read some of the books that take place after Return of the Jedi, but is there somewhere I can read the storylines Lucus intended for the final three installments?
"To come to your senses, you must first go out of your mind." - Alan Watts

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » May 17th 2003, 12:53 am

I still haven't watched Ep 2 yet, but in the meantime here is a little something for you to watch:

Star Wars Kid

:D
Apparently some kid used a video camera at his school to record his Star Wars fighting skills, then failed to remove the cassette. It didn't take long for the online community to remix it with full Star Wars special effects and lightsaber noises.
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

User avatar
fnordboy
Ed Zwick Wannabe
Posts: 1954
Joined: Sep 25th 2002, 10:29 am
Location: Exit 16E, NJ
Contact:

Post by fnordboy » May 17th 2003, 1:57 am

candygirl wrote:I still haven't watched Ep 2 yet, but in the meantime here is a little something for you to watch:

Star Wars Kid

:D
WOW :shock: WOW .... that is all I can say....

That was friggin hilarious. :lol:

Goddamnit I LOVE the internet!

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » May 17th 2003, 7:19 pm

Too funny. Thanks for sharing!
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

andrewgd_on_vacation

Post by andrewgd_on_vacation » May 17th 2003, 9:02 pm

What strikes me as odd is that there are thousands of people who are seriously offended on how the current Star Wars trilogy is being made. THEY'RE NOT YOUR MOVIES!!! If you don't like them, fine. If you have issues with the writing, fine. If there's too many effects, and not good dialogue, fine. But too freakin bad!!

If you don't like the new trilogy, thats your right. But it seems more and more people act like George has taken your favorite toy and smashed it to bits. These are movies. People make them to make money, and to express themselves. If you don't like what George is doing, thats your right, but people act like he's taken THEIR toy and smashed it to pieces. Its not yours, its HIS. And he if he wants to screw it up this way, thats completely his right.

Who are we to say how he should tell his story? We can dissagree with it, but the way people discuss it, it sounds like he's committed a grave sin. Its no that big of a deal people, they're just movies. They're just someone else's tale. Maybe Moby Dick shouldn't have dragged Ahab to his death, but thats how Melville wanted to tell his tale...

heater_05
Three Rivers Resident
Posts: 54
Joined: Sep 24th 2002, 7:04 pm

Post by heater_05 » May 18th 2003, 3:52 am

Well Andrew, true Lucas does own the rights to all the Star Wars films. No one is disputing that. That being said, he also has an obligation to his fans, who he has obviously lost touch with. The Lucas that is now is not the Lucas that made the original Star Wars. And in a sense they do belong to us. There are certain movies that have become cultural icons and have ceased to be just movies as you call it. Yes, true movies are just shadows on a wall physically and photographs are just a chemical process using silver nitrate on paper, and computer are just machines that use 0's and 1's to compute. This is all true on the surface. But, movies become more than that because we attached more meaning to them because of what they represent and what they make us feel. I mean even Lucas doesn't think of them as just movies.

In a sense I do own Star Wars, I own the feelings they make me feel each and every time I watch them. I mean as I child I lived breathed and ate Star Wars. And that was a Star Wars where Han shot first, which made sense and I never thought twice about it. The OT were the films I saw that inspired to be a film maker and made me love and want to study films. Star Wars was the first movie I saw in the theatre. It has been part of my life, and Lucas is messing with that. No one is disputing his right, we just don't understand why. He has lost touch with his fans, and what makes a movie good.

Also Andrew, I think you are in the wrong place if you think of movies as just movies. So is MSCL just a show? I don't think so. If that is truly what you believe than what are you dong here? This is a place for people who obviously find meaning in what you call" just movies." Sure it is just a TV show, but to us it is so much more. As is Star Wars to some people. I am sure there are some movies you are very attached to, and I am sure you would not be happy if someone messed with it.

What if in 20 years Winnie decided that the grunge clothing in MSCL has got to go and that it needed to be completely redone, and it was changed. Or maybe the betrayal of Angela by Rayanne and Jordan was too harsh and it was redubbed poorly and redited to be different. I think all of us would be very pissed and unhappy and wonder if Winnie had smoked too much crack.

So in conclusion, movies are not just movies and TV shows are not jut TV shows. So why are you here Andrew if you think this? Are you here to make fun and criticize because if you are, frankly I do not appreciate it.
"It just goes to show you, if it's not one thing it's another, but it's always something!"

Roseanne Roseannadanna

User avatar
lance
Ed Zwick Wannabe
Posts: 1983
Joined: Jul 6th 2002, 4:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Post by lance » May 18th 2003, 1:46 pm

andrewgd_on_vacation wrote:What strikes me as odd is that there are thousands of people who are seriously offended on how the current Star Wars trilogy is being made. THEY'RE NOT YOUR MOVIES!!! If you don't like them, fine. If you have issues with the writing, fine. If there's too many effects, and not good dialogue, fine. But too freakin bad!!

If you don't like the new trilogy, thats your right. But it seems more and more people act like George has taken your favorite toy and smashed it to bits. These are movies. People make them to make money, and to express themselves. If you don't like what George is doing, thats your right, but people act like he's taken THEIR toy and smashed it to pieces. Its not yours, its HIS. And he if he wants to screw it up this way, thats completely his right.

Who are we to say how he should tell his story? We can dissagree with it, but the way people discuss it, it sounds like he's committed a grave sin. Its no that big of a deal people, they're just movies. They're just someone else's tale. Maybe Moby Dick shouldn't have dragged Ahab to his death, but thats how Melville wanted to tell his tale...
Yup,

its his to do with what he wants. I think though the general feeling held by many is one of profound disappointment. The prequels could have been much better done than they were.

Since we and our parents are the ones who bought him Skywalker ranch (through movie sales, action figures, etc) we feel empowered to "vent our collective spleen" about the content of the prequels.

Best,

Lance Man

andrewgd
Liberty High Graduate
Posts: 676
Joined: Sep 11th 2002, 9:49 pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Post by andrewgd » May 18th 2003, 10:57 pm

First off, I should have prefaced my previous comments saying it was said with a light heart and a smile. I don't exactly mean to attack, I just find the sense of ownership confusing.
heater_05 wrote:That being said, he also has an obligation to his fans, who he has obviously lost touch with.
Actually, his only real obligation is to his own pocketbook. If he feels like screwing over his fanbase, thats his right. Who is anyone to tell him how to shape his creative vision?
In a sense I do own Star Wars, I own the feelings they make me feel each and every time I watch them. It has been part of my life, and Lucas is messing with that.
Is Lucas going into your home and taking away your OT tapes? Is he going into your memories and changing it so you never remember Han shooting first? No. Not at all. Those moments will always be "yours". He's not changing the precious moments of our childhoods. He's changing his work of art. Adding to it, and in his eyes, improving it. Just because Van Gogh painted a wonderful portrait that people saw and loved, doesn't mean he can't paint over it and change it.
What if in 20 years Winnie decided that the grunge clothing in MSCL has got to go and that it needed to be completely redone, and it was changed. Or maybe the betrayal of Angela by Rayanne and Jordan was too harsh and it was redubbed poorly and redited to be different. I think all of us would be very pissed and unhappy and wonder if Winnie had smoked too much crack.
I wouldn't be. I didn't write them, act in them, or have any creative input in them. My interaction with the shows, and my love for them have already been cemented in my memory. Just because they are changed in the future does not change my memories of them. Nor does it change my DVDs that I own of them that I can watch any time I want. People say the new movies are cheapening the series. Well, I haven't read them, but I heard the MSCL books weren't too good. Do they cheapen the show? I doubt it. People seem to think these new movies are ruining all that is Star Wars. I don't see how that could possibly be true. Sure, they aren't as good as the originals, but they hardly make the original ones worse.
So in conclusion, movies are not just movies and TV shows are not jut TV shows. So why are you here Andrew if you think this? Are you here to make fun and criticize because if you are, frankly I do not appreciate it.
I was only questioning this false sense of ownership over these movies. You own your experience with the movies, and that will not ever change. I'm glad they influenced you. Movies can do wonderful things like that. I would not be where I am without Jurrasic Park. Now, if Spielburg decided to replace the dinosaurs with stop-motion animated poop, fine. I'd still remember the movie that got me into animation. I would still own that version that I could watch over and over. I'd seriously question why he would replace the dinosaurs with moving poop, but that would be his right.

It seems as though people are taking these changes and new movies way too personally. He's not ruining your childhood. He's not ruining your experience with the original movies. It sucks that its not available to buy, but there are tens of thousands of movies that aren't on DVD. If you don't like the changes/new ones, don't watch them. Relish in the original movies, and ignore everything else.

Nobody has the right to tell someone how they should create their vision. Critisism is fine, but don't get offended when someone elses vision for their own work doesn't line up with your own.
"Your imagination, like a child, will explode with unrestrained possibilities for adventure."

User avatar
fnordboy
Ed Zwick Wannabe
Posts: 1954
Joined: Sep 25th 2002, 10:29 am
Location: Exit 16E, NJ
Contact:

Post by fnordboy » May 18th 2003, 11:33 pm

Well I have to jump in here.

I agree with andrewgd on this for the most part. These are his movies, he can do whatever he wants to do to them. On the other side of the coin, we all, as fans, have the right to bitch and complain and spread our love or dissatisfaction about these projects as much as we want. Of course, Lucas can still do what he wants to do with them. The only way we can combat that is by doing the one thing that most of us won't do: stop giving him money. I am just as guilty as the next guy, I own both ep1 and 2 on DVD, and I saw both in the theater. While I think they are not that good at all, I still have this fanboy mentality that I have to own them. And from a DVD collectors standpoint they are pretty damn good DVD releases, that can not be denied.

When he started tweaking the OT I went to the first films theatrical release and was expecting something decent. What I got was crap, so I stopped watching them. I do not have the altered VHS, nor did any of my money go to the rest of the altered OT. I woudn't support them, unless there is something amazing with the DVD release, then I would have to debate the issue and weigh if it is worth it to go against my feeling on it.

Atleast with every new release in the prequels I have this hope that maybe there will be something redeeming in this release, so far that hope has been shot down. There is still a slight glimmer that there maybe something good in the next one, atleast this will be the one we get to see the real Vader. See I can't help myself. I really want to like these, but I just can't.

Do I think that he is ruining the collective series of the movies? Yes. If they are judged as a whole (assuming that the 3rd comes out as bad as the first 2) then the series would get a 5 or 6 out of a possible 10 in my book. Does this tarnish the OT? No, not really. It doesn't ruin my initial feelings for the trilogy, in the same way Jedi doesn't ruin Empire for me. Do I think Lucas has no clue what he is doing? Yes, film making wise. Business wise, he definitely has a clue. Mainly he knows most of us will still pay to see inferior movies.

User avatar
GaryEA
So-Called Addict
Posts: 773
Joined: Oct 30th 2002, 6:45 pm
Location: Exit 15W, NJ
Contact:

Post by GaryEA » May 20th 2003, 1:50 am

Its no that big of a deal people, they're just movies.
:roll:

(looks at film school diploma on wall, then back at monitor)

Um, no.

Gary

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests