Jordon & Angela

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
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Jordon & Angela

Post by Lindsay » Nov 22nd 2002, 9:42 pm

So how did Jordon ever really feel for Angela then? To what extent did he care for her????

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Jordan & Angela

Post by NIGHTJESSI » Nov 26th 2002, 2:58 am

I think the answer to your question depends on each person's interpretation of the events we saw between Jordan and Angela. I'm an HR, and I perceived Jordan's feelinga about Angela to grow through the season. When we first see Jordan and Angela, he barely even knows who she is and is only mildly interested in her. But as time goes on, and she proves to be different than any other girl he's known or been with, Jordan begins to get more and more intrigued. And once he loses her, that's when he realizes how much he truly loves her. The fact that he goes out of his way to have Brian help him craft a letter to win back Angela shows just how much Jordan really wants to be with her. He knows that nothing short of spectacular will have her back in his arms again. The question is: once he regained Angela, would he have wanted to stay with her? After all, for some, the chase is better than the actual reward.
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Post by Nostradamus » Nov 26th 2002, 4:27 am

I'm sure it's incredibly obvious and I'm just not making the connection, but what is an "HR"? I don't think I know that one.

:?:
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Post by K-man » Nov 26th 2002, 2:34 pm

UMMM; I'll take Hopeless Romantic for $50 Alex......
OOOPS, I meant,"WHAT IS A hopeless romantic for $50 Alex?..". Whew!!!! I am really bored this dull day. Please bear with me.
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Post by K-man » Nov 26th 2002, 2:48 pm

I have written lots on this topic over the years but to re-hash a bit, I think Jordan initially keeps Angela at a distance so as to keep the 'relationship' more in step with his wants/needs. He wants to be with her when there's nothing better to do. He is obviously insecure when it comes to being seen with her in public, at least in the beginning. And his jerk-off friend Shane doesn't make things any easier for him. That scene in "Why Jordan Can't Read" when Angela approaches J in the hall and asks to go to the movie and meet her parents, and Shane is in the background making like he is playing the violin with his drumsticks and prompting J with "Let's Go!", I just want to pound him. What a prick! I know plenty of guys who pull that s**t. (Actually I don't pound people but you know what I mean. I hope.) And Jordan should tell him to get lost or meet him later or whatever. That would be the respectable thing for him to do in front of Angela. But as we see in Self Esteem, Jordan apparently has changed as he takes her hand. Then later in the series, when Angela is gone, it seems Jordan wants her even more. Lots more. He looks none too happy when he sees Angela talking to Cory. The jealousy oozes as he walks past her and she is all "Yeah, I'd love to!" towards Cory. Maybe it's b/c she is gone, he all of a sudden decides he MUST have her back.
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 26th 2002, 3:03 pm

K-man wrote:Shane is in the background making like he is playing the violin with his drumsticks and prompting J with "Let's Go!", I just want to pound him. What a prick! I know plenty of guys who pull that s**t. (Actually I don't pound people but you know what I mean. I hope.) And Jordan should tell him to get lost or meet him later or whatever. That would be the respectable thing for him to do in front of Angela.
Despite Angela's perception that Jordan is sooooo cool and Mr. Non-Conformist, he is a weak-willed conformist when it comes to his friends. On Halloween, he tells Rickie, "I wish I was [leaving]. Every year we come out here, tear up the track, and throw garbage cans over. God, it's getting old. That's, like, something I can't get out of. It's always the same. But you come because you think, you know, maybe something cool will happen. 'Cause what if something did, happen, and you missed it?" He feels peer pressure to be there, even though he so clearly does not want to be part of their vandalism. He also feels that if something cool happens when he isn't there, he will feel left out. He can't stand up to his friends because they are all he has. As stupid as he may come off in class (when he bothers to show up), he is smart enough to realize that they aren't a good influence on him.

Going back to Shane's bad attitude about Angela (or just in general), he doesn't even have to poke his drumsticks at Jordan in "Strangers in the House" - his presence alone is enough to cause Jordan to release Angela from a much needed hug and say, "That's rough." Wow, that's sympathetic. Going off to cut class is so much more important that comforting someone who is crying.

And in "Self Esteem" when Shane asks, "Who you got in there?" (knowing that it is most likely Angela), Jordan responds, "No one - just a girl. Shut up!" Shane's opinion matters a lot (for no reason that I have figured out yet since Shane doesn't seem to be the leader) so his analysis of Angela as "that weird girl [Rayanne] always hangs out with" prompts Jordan to reject Angela at Pike Street. All this makes me see Jordan as a little *NSync puppet with Shane holding the strings.

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Post by K-man » Nov 26th 2002, 3:10 pm

Wow, that's a harsh angle on Jordan, but Shane is totally pushy and seems to walk all over Jordan. I have always wondered what Shane was saying to Jordan at the end of Self Esteem before Jordan departs to approach Angela. I wonder what Shane's problem is. Could it be Jordan is the good-looking guy all the girls notice and he has a problem handling that?. I wonder how much of that occurs in real life between the Leto Bros. Hmmmm.
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 26th 2002, 3:23 pm

I don't think it's so much Shane's jealousy of Jordan's looks - I have a feeling that their crowd gets action from the Cynthia Hargroves and Rayannes who are in their social sphere. It may be reluctance to accept someone from a different group, or just the classic "change is bad" attitude in terms of Angela.

In general, though, I think that Shane's Jedi mind tricks are related to what I said about Jordan. Their crowd likes to characterize themselves as the rebels who don't follow the rules and don't care about what other people think about them, but this is self-fulfilling prophecy and defeatist mentality. They know that they don't fit in with Sharon's goody goody yearbook/band/World Happiness Dance organizing friends, Kyle's jock friends, or Brian's compulsive overachieving chess club friends. All Jordan and Shane have is each other. In that sense, they are similar to Rayanne and Rickie - misfits who found each other - and there is strength in numbers. Look at it this way - if Shane tried to leave their crowd, who would he hang out with? It seems almost silly to think of it that way as an adult, but remember what high school is like - everyone is trapped in that building for 6-8 hours a day. Everyone needs alliances and support and conspirators to make it through each class, each hour. Imagine sitting through class (on the occassion that Jordan goes to class) and having no friends. Imagine lunch with no one to talk to. Imagine going to the dance and walking around the gym looking for one person you know well enough to hang out with. That is the mentality that binds Jordan's friends together. All they have is each other, so they need each other.

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Post by K-man » Nov 26th 2002, 3:35 pm

O.K., I'm beginning to follow your thoughts here Candygirl, to borrow a line from the GREAT movie 'Stand By Me' , you are saying Jordan and Shane are part of 'that group of rejects who end up taking shopclass making birdhouses and ashtrays'. Although I feel the show never really told us who Jordan hangs with, (save Frozen Embryos and Tino) is Shane his only friend.?. Are Jordan and Shane charter members of 'the outsiders'? If they leave that group is there nowhere else for them to go? And though I do like your description of high-school, I find your description applies to where I work as well. Maybe high-school never ends they just change the name to "Career" to fool us. :?
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 26th 2002, 4:09 pm

You must have read my mind! I was totally thinking of that conversation between Chris & Gordie in Stand by Me when I said that Jordan realizes that his friends aren't a good influence.

I think that there is ALWAYS somewhere to go when you leave a group, but it requires a lot of effort and we have seen that Jordan isn't big on that. I'm also not saying that Jordan will necessarily be in some dead end job working for minimum wage for the rest of his life. He is already aware that his friends are keeping him down rather than encouraging him to achieve (and I use the middle class high school definition of achieve here to mean graduating, although I realize that pursuing his dream of being a musician is another way to "achieve") so now it's just a question of whether he has the inner strength to think about what he wants to do and the perseverence to follow through.

I know that everyone has different definitions of achievement, accomplishment, etc. but it seems that Jordan, like many others, is drifting, trying to find something that gives him a sense of fulfillment or happiness. Even though he is in the band, he never indicates that it's a passion. It just seems like something to do. He has to go practice at the loft about as much as he has to watch them rip up the track on Halloween.

As far as people who still act like they're in high school, I must now reference High Fidelity (although I'm paraphrasing): some people never get over the fact that their band once opened for the Rolling Stones, some people never got over the 60's, etc. And some people never get over high school so they keep that inane mentality and apply it to every situation.

I think the trend I have noticed is that certain aspects of people's growth are arrested at the last stage of school. Fashion, certainly because once you reach a certain age, clothes are something that are "appropriate" for certain situations (work versus home, so-so restaurant versus company party) rather than something that will attract the admiration of girls and the lust of boys. That is how you can carbon date a lot of people at work. One girl I worked with still wore long sweaters, stretch pants, thick socks with hiking boots, and had big curly hair. I guessed that she gradauted from college circa 1991 and upon talking to her discovered that I was off by a year, but her clothes said it all.

Anyway, back to emotional growth - some people look to their past as a time of glory rather than their future as an opportunity for more. That's how we get Al Bundy talking about his "four touchdowns in a single game" at every opportunity. Nostalgia is one thing - living in the past is another.

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Post by K-man » Nov 26th 2002, 4:28 pm

Candygirl wrote: "I think that there is ALWAYS somewhere to go when you leave a group, but it requires a lot of effort ....."


That is WAY true. I think we all come to a point in life where we have to make that decision as painful and scary as it may seem. I finally came to the decision that my life is better withOUT certain people in it no matter how many positives they may have had to offer. Whether it be girlfriends, friends or whoever, I finally dropped the excuses and said ENOUGH! It was very difficult at first but in the long run it was for the best.
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 26th 2002, 4:34 pm

It takes a strong person (or sometimes a really horrible situation) to take the initiative and make a decision that involves so much risk and effort. Too often people resign themselves to the status quo, preferring the predicability of being unhappy to the upheaval of change, which is scary. Moving, changing jobs, leaving a relationship, etc. - all difficult to do when the alternative is "I might not be happy, but at least I know what to expect." People find comfort in routines, and the aforementioned changes disrupt routine and strain relationships. Knowing that that helps to understand Jordan's situation better.

Congrats on doing the right thing though K-man!

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Post by K-man » Nov 26th 2002, 4:56 pm

Thanks Candygirl, unfortunately I still have some people/situations I need to purge from my life but I am working on it. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say. I always remember a quote from an interview with an NHL coach that went something like," People say my team is hated b/c we are arrogant. I tell them I would rather have a bunch of arrogant guys playing for me than a munch of [wimps]. I don't think [wimps] are successful. It's easy to sit around the bar and cry in your beer and complain about how tough things are. But; if you're going to accomplish anything you've got to get off your butt and do it yourself......and THAT takes some guts." I must suscribe to this philosophy because that interview was in like 1984 and I still retain it clear as day. Although I have no use for arrogant people and pray I never am labeled as such, the part about 'doing it yourself' really makes sense.
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 26th 2002, 4:59 pm

I agree - no one can make things happen for you except YOU.

And there is a huge difference between being assertive and being aggressive. Bad things happen to people every day, but it's the way you deal with it that shows your character.

I really hate the way that Gen X has been portrayed as a bunch of whining babies who blame everyone else for what has happened. I know lots of people my age who have picked themselves up and moved on instead of sitting around crying about it incessantly. You can play the victim or you can take responsibility for your actions and learn from your mistakes - it's a choice.

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Post by Megs » Nov 26th 2002, 5:11 pm

candygirl wrote: And in "Self Esteem" when Shane asks, "Who you got in there?" (knowing that it is most likely Angela), Jordan responds, "No one - just a girl. Shut up!"
Did anyone else notice that in that scene, after Shane asks who Jordan has in there, Jordan says "No one", and Shane goes, "Rayanne?" And Jordan says, "Yeah. Shut up." Foreshadowing, anyone?
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