Episodes
- My So-Called Life (Pi... - #1 »
- Dancing in the Dark - #2 »
- Guns and Gossip - #3 »
- Father Figures - #4 »
- The Zit - #5 »
- The Substitute - #6 »
- Why Jordan Can't Read - #7 »
- Strangers in the Hous... - #8 »
- Halloween - #9 »
- Other People's Daught... - #10 »
- Life of Brian - #11 »
- Self-Esteem - #12 »
- Pressure - #13 »
- On the Wagon - #14 »
- So-Called Angels - #15 »
- Resolutions - #16 »
- Betrayal - #17 »
- Weekend - #18 »
- In Dreams Begin Respo... - #19 »
Cast
Forum
2004 Summer OlympicsI was especially disappointed to see Svetlana Khorkina fall off the uneven bars. I was rooting for her to medal ... she did well to hide her disappointment, but what a way to go out.
![]() --------------------------------------------- http://www.urban-hills.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------
I was rooting for her too. She seemed much less drama queenish during the team finals than the Sydney Olympics (when she yanked off her silver medal in disgust), so I was really hoping she would go out on top (even though she was catty when she lost the all around to Carly Patterson the other night). I thought bar finals would be her moment to shine. I'm a sucker for all those human interest stories they do, so although I was happy for Courtney Kupets and Terin Humphrey when they won medals (partly because they have been overshadowed by Carly, partly because Courtney has had an incredible comeback from her injury), I had really hoped that Svetlana Khorkina would go out with one last gold.
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com
Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer. You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?
Paul Hamm's all around gold was the greatest momment of the games so far for me. I was disapointed about how much more the media road Carly Patterson's gold medal performance. She did a great job and I'm not trying to take anything away from her, but Paul's come back is a prime example of the reason we all watch sports. It didn't matter what sport he was doing at that momment, the fact he was able to perform in such a clutch situation and seize the opportunity is universal. As far as the contraversy, it has nothing to do with Paul, he did his job and that's all he has to say. The koreans didn't file a protest in time, so it voids them having any recourse. It's unfortunant, but so is a small step on the landing. The judges should be repromanded, but the koreans had the opportunity to correct it and missed it, Paul had an opportunity and he seized it. It's his gold.
"To come to your senses, you must first go out of your mind." - Alan Watts
Here's a well written article on why Paul should give the medal to the Korean based on sportsmanship.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5790612/ Though I agree with the political implications and reasoning why it would be great sportsmanship, there are other things at work here. Paul signed on to represent his country to the best of his ability, which he has done. Does that commitment obligate him to become a political pawn in helping to restore the damaged image of America which he has nothing to do with other than being an American citizen? How many times do you think Paul has suffered at the hands of the judges with questionable scores throughout his career. It's the nature of the sport. The only difference this time is the judges made a consitant error that can be recalculated rather than simply being "harsh" in their scoring. We also do not know the history between these two men, there may or may not be more between their competions over they years. The point is there is a lot more to this than America's image. I don't think Paul has trained most of his life and sacrificed so much to become a political pawn or to be known as the man who gave up his medal and appeared on the tonight show. He came to do his best and let the chips fall where they may. It's such a shame that his finish has to have an asterick after it forever. I suppose you could also argue that if he competed just to compete and it's not about the glory of winning then it shouldn't matter if he gave up the medal. Either way, it's a tough question to answer. "To come to your senses, you must first go out of your mind." - Alan Watts
As soon as I mentioned that the Korean guy had filed a protest, my boyfriend said, "Well, the Koreans aren't really in a position to complain about unfair judging."
![]() Seriously, I totally hear you NM. This reminds me of the ice skating brouhaha from a few years ago with the Russians and the Canadians. It really sucks to win a gold medal and then have people ask amid the controversy, "Do you think they should take your medal away and give it to someone else?" Gymnastics, like ice skating, leaves room for the judges to express their opinions through the scores. As much as it sucks to say this, part of the score is political and influenced by reputation as much as the competitor's skill. As for Paul Hamm being affected by this, I think it showed last night. Was his floor routine really that bad in comparison to the others? No, but he still finished fifth, after getting the highest floor score during the all around competition. I don't want to sound like Svetlana Khorkina bitching about unfair judging, but you are right in that the judges are NOT consistent. They CAN take deductions, but they don't always choose to do so. This, however, is more a case of the judges screwing up. I might sound like a big softy, but this is the reason why I wish everyone could win. There is no argument that all of these athletes have worked their tails off for the better part of their lives and everyone has a story, but I am not in a position to decide who deserves a medal more. That's what the scores are supposed to do. In other gymnastics controversies, have you heard about the Romanians? In Sydney, the women won the team and swept the all around 1-2-3, but then Andreea Raducan, the gold medal winner, was stripped of her medal because she tested positive for a banned substance (a cold medicine). Now that particular drug is no longer on the banned list. She is filing a petition to get her gold medal back. I also agree that they made such a big deal about Carly Patterson and hyped her up, and although she did win the all around gold, I don't think she is the best gymnast. They put her in every event for the team competition and she did not deliver on two out of four of those events. If they had allowed someone else to do bars, could they have won the team gold? Maybe, maybe not, but I was thinking more along the lines of Courtney McCool who did so poorly in the qualifying events that the coaches pulled her from the rest of the competition. Sure, she still got a silver medal in team, but during the team competition I didn't even see her on the floor. I don't remember all the scores off the top of my head, but I am willing to bet that she scored better on bars in the qualifying event than Carly Patterson did during the team final. Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com
Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer. You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?
Gawd, it's just getting worse and worse! This article quotes Jae Soon Yoo, the spokesman for the Korean team as saying, "We want our medal, not Hamm's medal. Our appeal is not against America, not against Paul Hamm....We're talking about judging and judges, not America." Unfortunately, that is not how the Korean people are viewing the situation. The same article states that there is now anti-American sentiment being whipped up my the South Korean media.
The official word about the situation: So the IGF refuses to take any responsibility for the situation outside of suspending some judges and are putting all of the responsibility on Paul Hamm to give up his medal? Does that mean the other South Korean will give his silver medal to Paul Hamm? This is getting ridiculous. According to this article, people were so angry about Alexei Nemov's high bar score, that the crowd booed for ten minutes, prompting a judges conference. One top of all that, apparently the Korean athlete in question should have received an additional .2 deduction on his parallel bars routine, which means that if they rescored everything correctly, he still wouldn't have won. In fact, he would fall out of medal contention and the Romanian would win the bronze. This is the reason why protests must be filed before the event is over - too many what ifs. Now the Canadians are filing a protest about one of their atheletes being robbed out of a medal too. One of the Canadian coaches is being quoted as saying, ""We may be whining but we're right." Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com
Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer. You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?
Now that I have had a chance to watch Monday night's event finals, I just want to know what kind of crack the judges are smoking. I'm too tired to rant about it because it's such a mess.
This is a great Sports Illustrated article that expresses my feelings about the situation. Betcha didn't know my pseudonym was E.M. Swift, did you? ![]() This is another good article from the New York Times. Just wanted to mention I also hate the new "no more ties" rule. It's stupid. Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com
Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer. You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"? Yeah, I saw this. The BBC had to cut to some boxing as it was so bad... they described it as 'a little technical difficulty'. hah! I missed Nemov's routine and they didn't replay it, but the commentators were saying it was performed brilliantly, with a flair of originality. I have to say, I feel for Hamm on this one. The pressure on him to give up the medal is pretty unfair; you work for it your whole life, according to the rules, you win it, and then people jump all over you to give it back. On the other hand, I can see the Koreans' argument too; it sounds like they really didn't . Personally I think the judging in this olympics has been totally substandard. Not a day goes by without some kind of controversy; medals being given, taken away, and then reinstated, and screwy scoring. And not only in gymnastics; the controversy over Bettina Hoy & Leslie Law in the equestrian was disgusting. I'm not really sure what can be done about it but my inclination is that giving someone a 10 minute window to appeal something, when they're in a team situation and other competitors on the team would no doubt be affected by such arguments, is a little harsh. Perhaps they could wait a little longer before announcing the medal positions or something, instead of steaming in there and announcing it straight away. That could allow people who have problems with a mark to appeal it calmly later. It isn't going to stop anyone performing at their best at any given time, I think... ![]() --------------------------------------------- http://www.urban-hills.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------
It was actually longer than 10 mins I think. I watched this last night and thankfully they didn't change to a different sport, they kept the cameras on right there. This guy should have had a gold or a silver. Hamm's routine was weak (both twins) and he got the same score as the Italian who totally blew him away. Nemov's routine was amazing and it was not surprising that the audience reacted the way they did. IIRC Malaysia and Canada gave his routine a 9.60 which is what ruined his average. How they even got to that number is unknown, there is no logical reason for them to score him that low. So the judges conferenced and eventually changed his score, but not enough to even bring him out of then third place. It was bulls***. I really feel for the Russians in the games, they seem to always be getting screwed over. After the score change the crowd kept booing because it wasn't enough of a score to reflect his routine. Eventually Hamm had Nemov come out and quiet the crowd down. He was extremely gracious, and even though he didn't win crap it must make you feel real good having that many people on your side when you know you are getting screwed over. Korea. This pisses me off. The Gold should most definitely go to the Korean. Hamm clearly didn't win it. He keeps saying in interviews how he knows that he is the champion, etc. Come on, the math is right in front of you. You did not do enough. Plain and simple. Last night during the men's gymnastics the commentators were so kissing Hamm's ass. The one even said when the Korean guy screwed up on the high bar that, "for what it's worth Paul Hamm never screwed up a routine like that on the high bar". WTF? The guy makes a mistake and that should invalidate his valid claim that he should have the gold? I hate the nationalistic crap that comes along with the olympics. ![]()
I disagree that the Korean guy won. Yes, the judges erroneously gave him the wrong start value, which would add .10 to his score, but they also neglected to give him a mandatory .20 deduction for going over the maximum number of holds allowed in a parallel bars routine. If his routine was rescored with the correct start value and the standard deduction, he would be back where he started - with the bronze medal.
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com
Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer. You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?
The booing went on for a long time. I remember one of the commentators saying how he wishes it would keep going so the judges can learn to stop making stupid mistakes. I agree with candygirl. Paul Hamm deserves the gold. One of the commentators said he spoke to Paul Hamm on the phone and that Paul feels as if the whole world is against him. It`s sad. It really is sad that this is happening to Paul Hamm. It`s unfair and if he has to give back his gold I for one would be really upset and angry. The koreans should not get the gold. In my opinion they should just shutup and be happy they even got a medal in the first place. Ya, I understand why they are protesting, I read the article but I just wish this whole thing would shutup.
There`s Something About My Life....
The FIG is refusing to allow a second gold medal for Yang, so they are trying to put all the responsibility on Paul Hamm for their judges screwing up.
FIG's letter: The USOC letter in response: Comments from the USOC press conference: Just when I thought I couldn't dislike the FIG any more, I read their official statement: Chicago Sports has a hilarious parody of the FIG letter:
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com
Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer. You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?
Who is onlineUsers browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests |