Some kind of organised revolt

[starbug]

I was thinking, instead of us all launching our various complaints in a disparate and fragmented way, where they may or may not reach people who matter or in sufficient volume for this debacle to be taken seriously and investigated, maybe we should have some kind of group plan.

I suppose I'm not really explaining it well but for example, have one person for each region co-ordinate all responses to authority and collect together everybody's forms/letters to send it to each particular authority we want to contact over this mess. That way, the person receiving all the bumph in each region could look through it, photocopy it and send it out with a cover note to each authority giving, say, a synopsis of what the letters show (eg average wait time, average money lost, some of the emails from Ross etc).

That way, an entire wad of complaints would land up on the desk of one person who would have to think 'hey, this is serious' by the nature of the sheer volume of things. We'd also get round the problem of having to deal with different people from the same organisation (having worked in quasi-governmental organisations for a while, I know what they're like and believe me, it's easier to have one point of contact for one problem; you'd think they'd sort it out but experience proves otherwise).

What do you think? I'd happily be the contact point for the UK.

I'm also of the opinion that even if you have cancelled, got your money back etc etc you might well have been sufficiently irked by this whole mess just enough to want to see AnotherUniverse taken to the cleaners. If people whose problems were eventually sorted out can demonstrate how long/painful it was getting them sorted, in some perverse way this might help those people who are still waiting. Even if it is only evidence to show that AU haven't dealt with even one of their customers in a completely professional manner.

[Jason R]

For what it is worth, all complaints and cancels submitted to the drygrass.com site are logged. We can tell you when they are read and processed by AU.com.

Additionally, if any official investigations require the data, I will obviously provide full access to the web logs and to my entire email and customer service request record. This might help you prove that you filed a dispute within a particular time period.

Besides that, I am not sure if I will be pursuing my claim against AU.com. I don't have a signed contract from them, and it might be difficult to collect. By my estimation, I am owed about $25,000, but I have no contract because AU never signed it for me. Would the CEO's statements on the forum that I would be paid even be admissable? For that matter, would his statements about the project to customers be admissable?

Whatever the answer is, if these discs are not delivered, I don't want to collect what is owed in arrears. This money should go to pay for the lunchboxes for those who got the shaft. With $25K, there should be enough to cover manufacturing and shipping. Either that, or to provide refunds to those who were unable to receive refunds.

I can provide a document signing what is owed to me over to the customers. Would you then be able to pursue it?

[starbug]

Well, it's sort of difficult for me to know what to do... I'm sure everybody would like to get what they are owed but it is looking increasingly unlikely. So it looks like some choices will have to be made; I'm not happy about you being out of pocket, but let's face it, I'm even less happy about me being out of pocket if it comes to it. .

I'm afraid that nobody will get anything here (no £25,000, no DVDs, no Lunchbox and definitely no bonus disk). In that case, the only thing left to do is make sure AU or CMI Holdings or whoever can't trade any more and do this to other people.

I think that if you could provide whatever documentation you have at the end of this, you'd be helping a great deal. I know you've already agreed on a different post that you will be as cooperative as humanly possible

I also think that it doesn't matter one fig that you don't have any written contract with AU. The contract is made out the minute you reach agreement on all the fundamentals (ie what you will be doing and how much they will pay you for it), at least in English law. A written document only serves as evidence of the intentions of the parties involved. If you have witnesses to swear to what you agreed, this should help. As to the stuff on this forum, I think (but I don't know, not being an internet fraud lawyer at all whatsoever) that if we had some way of proving who posted what (I have no idea how this would be done but I guess in the same way you did for that guy who was working for AU and posting here under a different name) then ross's assertions may be admissable.

What is certain is that he made 'an unambiguous false statement of fact designed to induce x into entering a contract which they then relied upon to their detriment'.

In English law this is a misrepresentation (I'm going to be refreshing my memory on the subject later tonight - I'll let you know what I come up with).

However, being in the UK, I'm not sure about how this will work as AU/CMI are in the US.

All I think is that wherever possible we should all try to speak with one voice to one complaints body. The last thing we want is to scupper our case (if it exists) by giving conflicting statements.

[Baby_G]

I've never posted on a forum ever, let alone this one so I'm not quiet sure I'm doing this right but here goes....

I work in a law firm and when of my lawyers gets a minute I shall ask her what she thinks. However one of my paralegals said that if you have evidence written in a forum that you can trace back to Ross then can be used to back up your case along with e-mails. I shall verify this when I can though. I also have a book on e-commerce in front of my which I shall try and wade through for anymore information.

I think the spokes person idea is a very good one though.

[Jason R]

I hope that is the case,

If it is, I will sign over to any parties of a class action, my rights to what was owed to me and my company in arrears.

I can provide proof of the amount I actually received, and since the CEO wrote that they paid me about half of what they owed my firm, a trier of fact can hopefully decide what the balance due would be.

[Baby_G]

It seems this is the case, so we can use both Ross' forum comments and his e-mails as evidence, as it is still "written". The only other thing we need to look at is the terms and conditions on their wedsite for any lopholes there.

I'm about to go and cancel my order but I will keep posting any advise about getting my money back (I was double charged in July) here and I'm going to have a look through the e-commerce book tonight (I've been out of uni to long so am finding it a bit hard going!). It will be slightly different for me though as I'm in England.

I really feel that Jason, you have earned any penny that you manage to get out of AU.

[CheapWallpaper]

Thanks starbug, i was going to suggest something similar myself. With fraud on this mass scale, some kind of organisation is required.

I'm still waiting (months!) for the $40 AU overchanged me for the t-shirt offer to be refunded. I have also recently made the decision to cancel my order for the DVD package. Needless to say I'm expecting to have to get the authorities involved to get the money back.

If an organised revolt is decided, please e-mail me (see my profile.)

Love to you all.

[Cate]

With fraud on this mass scale, some kind of organisation is required.

You know, that is one hell of a serious allegation. You guys have absolutely no proof that fraud ("on this mass scale") was commited.

But hey, organize, certainly. I just think that alleging fraud on a mass scale is a bit drastic.

(and please don't bother replying back with info from this board - I've read it all, many times)

[Natasha (candygirl)]

You know, that is one hell of a serious allegation. You guys have absolutely no proof that fraud ("on this mass scale") was commited.

I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that triple-charging customers and waiting over two months to process refunds is some kind of illegal. It might not be fraud, but I'm sure the lawyers have a word for it.

If authorize.net can prove (as they claim) that it was not their system that was responsible for the error and the arrows end up pointing at "this is not possible without AU deliberately charging people repeatedly," that might constitute some kind of credit card fraud.

[FarrellGirl78]

Well, judging by my CC company, there was fraud. Of course, right now, they are looking at what they can do for me even though I paid for the boxset a long time ago.

Let's just see here what AU did that was illegal.

First mistake that we all probably did is believe AU and we gave them the rest of the money back in march. That was such a big mistake but at the same time, they played with us because they said that we could cancel and loose everything or pay and get everything. Of course, we are all fans of MSCL so we decided to give them everything because we trusted everyone. VISA and the Canadian authorities did actually tell me that it is illegal to ask people to pay the full price for something that they don't have. So yes, AU is guilty of charging us full price a product that wasn't send.

Back in june when we learned about the delay, AU should have refund everything to us and make us pay later.

the double-triple charged are also illegal big time...

And now the fact that we are getting e-mails saying that our credits were submitted but when you call you learn otherwise. I would say that it is legal.

So yes I would agree and say that AU is guilty of a lot and with a big class-action against them, we could win. The thing is, if AU file bankrupt before we get our money back, nobody will see the DVD or the money. We will loose big time! This is why I spent the afternoon talking to someone at VISA and I just send them a big fax with all my papers and e-mails from AU. Before we learn that AU no longer exist, I will ask VISA to take actions and reverse the transaction.

I still think we need a lawyer and tell him or her about our case. It would be a great start.

Dominique

[zero]

[quote="starbug"] I'd happily be the contact point for the UK.

I'm also of the opinion that even if you have cancelled, got your money back etc etc you might well have been sufficiently irked by this whole mess just enough to want to see AnotherUniverse taken to the cleaners. [quote]

I'm in the Uk (london tawn) and did the cancel thing with AU this morning. If/when I get my refund I intend to make damn sure they feel my ire. They have made the glee I felt at this DVD set evaporate so I think they deserve every bit of sh*t I can throw at them

[phelix]

With fraud on this mass scale, some kind of organisation is required.

You know, that is one hell of a serious allegation. You guys have absolutely no proof that fraud ("on this mass scale") was commited.

I suggest you read this new information:
http://www.mscl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1315

Stick a fork in AU; they're done.

[Cate]

With fraud on this mass scale, some kind of organisation is required.

You know, that is one hell of a serious allegation. You guys have absolutely no proof that fraud ("on this mass scale") was commited.

I suggest you read this new information:
http://www.mscl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1315

Stick a fork in AU; they're done.

Read it.

Whatever ........

[Baby_G]

The book on e-commerce confirms what I said.

"Electronic signitures can be anything which can be attached to an electronic communication and which is intended to verify the identity of the sender of the communication". It includes the "cookie" left by the computer on a wedsite, the desplay of an e-mail address and even typing your name at the end of an e-mail or order form.

Other than that the book wasn't very helpful as it was about how companies can stop themselves getting sued as a result of business they do on the net. Maybe I should send a copy to Ross.

My company doesn't deal with this kind of thing so I can't help anymore than that, but if things don't go smoothly tomorrow there must be some wedsites that can give you an idea of where you stand. It doesn't seem like AU are going to belly up so those who are still hanging in there should be getting their DVD's very soon. Good Luck anyway.

[starbug]

Baby G - thanks for that info, it is really useful!

Hopefully, I'll formulate a plan in the next couple of days and I'll email something or PM people who've contacted me (I've had one VERY worried person already - if you're reading this, I'll write soon).

I'm not sure what to do as yet but I know a vast number of lawyers as friends. Maybe between us all we can come up with something. Or at the very least be pointed in the right direction. I've also got legal training and I'll help as much as possible.

I'm not trying to be inflammatory but AU have got me sufficiently p*ssed off by now that I just can't let this lie.

I've cancelled, and am collecting evidence. Today I got another 2 emails from AU saying they had cancelled my order and submitted a credit. From what I read elsewhere, this could be untrue. I plan to suss it out more tomorrow but I've been on a tedious time management course all day and I can't think straight right now.



Anyone else from the UK who's interested, PM me.