Should Angela have Jordan or Brian?

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.

Should Angela choose Jordan or Brian?

Jordan
38
54%
Brian
32
46%
 
Total votes: 70

NIGHTJESSI
Angelica
Posts: 466
Joined: Jan 13th 2002, 8:33 am
Location: Oak Forest, IL
Contact:

Definitely a topic for eternal debate

Post by NIGHTJESSI » Aug 3rd 2002, 7:37 am

I voted for Jordan simply because I liked seeing Angela and Jordan together, through both the good and the bad. Yes, Brian was the more mature one and the one who understood Angela better, but Jordan was the one who really spun her world and made her feel alive. At 15, I think Angela wasn't ready to handle the kind of relationship that she and Brian could have had. Meanwhile, Angela and Jordan both seemed to be moving toward being really comfortable in being in a relationship with each other.
"When you drink from the cup of life, chug." ~ Citibank billboard

User avatar
Tyler Durden
Nicky Driscoll
Posts: 20
Joined: Jul 14th 2002, 10:35 am

Jordan or Brian

Post by Tyler Durden » Aug 3rd 2002, 7:46 pm

Ok look, its quite simple. The main reason I, and probably most people go out with the opposite sex is attraction. Im a boy, and I can see quite clearly that without a shadow of a doubt Angela would have chosen Jordan rather than geeky Brian.
Before you all start getting on my back about how Angelas so "deep", and "mature", and "unconcerned about phsyical attributes", please remember how Angela fancied the arse off of Jordan Catalano from day one until the end of the show. Ie, "I love the way he leans". Please don't be so blind as to say when you fancy someone so much that anything else matters. Angela could have chosen Brian if thats what she wanted. Remember Brian in the school dance episode - he was so nasty to Delia. Brians not as nice a guy as everyone seems to think. He had a nasty streak to him. At the end of the day, the main reason Jordan won her round was his looks and if you say that she cared more about him not having emotional depth then you're wrong there too. She was over the moon that she thought he had written the letter, but she did still find out that he hadnt written it, and so knew that if she wanted huge depth in a person, she wasnt gonna get it off Jordan.
Anyway, to top it all off, I think that Angela appreciated the fact that Jordan had gone to so much trouble as to ask Brian to write a letter. It showed that he worried about Angela and wanted to please her, and athough this was a thing she would have shouted at Brian for, she was so infatuated with Jordan that she found it a sign of affection. Please remember when YOU were 15. I remember because i was Angela's age when i watched the show. A letter like that off someone i fancied at 15 would have blown my mind. Just the thought behind it. The fact that that person had wanted to write that letter. Jordan wasnt the brightest spark, and Angela knew this. The only reason he got Brian to write the letter was because he wanted it to be perfect.
"My sons a homosexual and I love him. I love my dead, gay son"

Debs
Liberty High Student
Posts: 118
Joined: Oct 30th 2001, 8:44 pm
Location: Middlesbrough, UK

Post by Debs » Aug 3rd 2002, 9:07 pm

I have to agree I think Tyler's hit the nail on the head with this one. Without a shadow of a doubt, Angela would have chosen Jordan over Brian. Even at the end of episode 19 (when she knew about Brian's feelings toward her) - even as she stepped into Jordan's car and she could tell it didn't quite gel, I still can't picture her calling Brian up the next day saying, "hey, I know we haven't seen eye to eye but let's get it together baby". I just can't see them as a couple - it is not meant to be. Angela would have to work through her infatuation first before moving on to anyone else... even then it wouldn't be Brian.

The reason I think a lot of people idealize Angela choosing Brian in episode 20 is because a lot of us know what it is like to be in Brian's shoes; to think the absolute world of someone who doesn't know you exist is probably something you never get over. I've been drinking wine tonight. Can you tell?

xx
Mom. Streamers?

pete
Overlooked Sibling
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 5th 2001, 5:50 pm

Post by pete » Aug 8th 2002, 4:29 pm

brian was kind of an ass =x
Once upon a time there lived a girl. She was always asleep. One morning she woke up.

User avatar
Megs
Lifehead
Posts: 1185
Joined: Jun 30th 2002, 11:35 am
Location: NOVA
Contact:

Post by Megs » Aug 8th 2002, 5:21 pm

At that point in her life I believe that Angela would have chosen Jordan. I could almost hear her rationalizing the next day (the day after she got into Jordan's car) that Jordan cared enough about her to go to Brian and have him/help him write the letter. Even though she was beginning to see Brian in a more favorable light, I don't believe that she would have chosen Brian. Maybe in a few more years she would have been mature and had the life experience to realzie that Brian was more right for her than Jordan, but not at age 15.
"I have all these dreams where I know exactly what to say. And you tell me, you know, that you forgive me."

User avatar
socalledfan
Angela's best friend
Posts: 225
Joined: May 9th 2001, 11:12 am
Location: NJ, USA

Post by socalledfan » Aug 9th 2002, 9:45 am

This is a question that has plagued me for what, 7 years now??? :?

It's rather complicated, IMHO. When I try to put myself in Angela's shoes I come to the inevitable conclusion that she is not ready for someone like Brian...YET. She will choose Jordan now. And I feel that later in life, perhaps after college, she and Brian will meet up again somehow and they both will have grown so much. Brian will have gained some confidence out there in the world, but will not have lost his sensitive side, his warm heart. AND, he'll have cut that "Anglo Afro" (HAHAHA) years before, and will look devastatingly handsome as a mature man. Angela and Brian would DEFINITELY fall in head-over-heels love later on.

But let's get back to my theory about "now." Jordan tugs at her heart in powerful ways. Aside from the physical attraction (which is palpable in every scene), she desperately wants to uncover who he is, and love him. And towards the end, he shows her that he WANTS to let her love him. Despite his huge mistakes, Angela sees something in him that seems real...she is willing to excuse his enormous "transgression" with Rayanne. She wants to at least give him one more chance to show her how he really feels...he is a novice at this love thing. His previous attachments with girls were probably all based on physical attraction and he kept that guard up with all of them....kept that aloof demeanor, so none of them got too close. But this time is different for Jordan, he wants to let Angela into his heart...wants her to show him what love is. He doesn't quite know how to go about letting her in, which is why he screws up along the way and is essentially "making it up as he goes."

At 15, with a crush the size of the state of Texas, Angela can't pass up this chance with Jordan. She has to see it through, to find out for herself if it is real. Do you guys know what I'm saying? And Jordan came a long way in one year...he has so many good qualities but they are only partially revealed. Angela might be the only one in his life that can fully dig them out, bring them into light. I think Jordan knows this about Angela, this is one of the main reasons he loves her.

When I was 15, I was in love with a "Jordan." Not just in love, in obsession, Angela-style. I analyzed every little bit of him, every action...analyzed it "until it barely even exists." LOL... My "Jordan" was aloof...kept me strung along juuuust enough to keep me interested. But he never really wanted to be with me. I can see that now, but didn't have the capacity to see it then. At the time, he was my world. So for Angela, ALL she can see right now is that there is a possibility with Jordan.

The way I see it, at the end of Episode 19, a spark is lit between Angela and Brian. But the fire will not start for several years.

:)
"You're sooo beautiful, it HURTS to look at you."

Guest

Post by Guest » Aug 11th 2002, 10:19 pm

shoulda, woulda, coulda.....

SHOULD Angela choose(chose) Brian? She should choose Brian.
WOULD Angela choose Brian? Probably not. At least, not immediately.
COULD Angela choose Brian? Of course, she could.

I guess it really depends on the nature of the question.

Look, Angela longs for two things in her relationship. Sex or conversation, ideally both. Not only does she want intimacy, but also depth(women are sooo demanding.....why can't they see that we are inherently stupid.....there's a Homer Simpson lurking behind every Brad Pitt).
Brian is more than capable of providing the kind of depth that Chase desires. So, Krakow might not have the experience in romance. This is not a problem because Angela's companionship will definately help "flower" his romantic side. They have so much base that they can use to build on a great relationship. It's like they could feed-off of each others qualities that they, as individuals, do not possess.
Advantage: Krakow

Now, let's look at the other aspect.....physical relationship. Both are about as "rookies" as the next 35th round draft-picks for the NBA. Speaking as an ex-soldier, Catalano is a "combat-tested" veteran, compared to Brian "I've never even been to Boot-camp yet" Krakow. But, Bri-boy has one thing that Jordan does not have - The element of surprise. It's easy to assume that Catalano will be the better "lover". However, Brian being sexually repressed for years, when the time comes I believe he will "deliver". Upon recalling my military career, I still think "Boot-camp" was the most fun for me BECAUSE we were rookies. Brian's unrelenting obsession of Angela will be unleashed at that brief moment and she will experience the intensity of his desires.
(Episode 21: Angela on crutches, unable to attend school for a month; Graham, Patty, Jordan wondering "Why is she like this?")
Advantage: Krakow

If Angela chooses Brian, she can have her wish. She will fall in love while nursing a blind soldier.

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Aug 12th 2002, 3:53 am

socalledfan wrote:At 15, with a crush the size of the state of Texas, Angela can't pass up this chance with Jordan. She has to see it through, to find out for herself if it is real. Do you guys know what I'm saying? And Jordan came a long way in one year...he has so many good qualities but they are only partially revealed. Angela might be the only one in his life that can fully dig them out, bring them into light. I think Jordan knows this about Angela, this is one of the main reasons he loves her.
I totally agree with this - if Angela (who is better at obsessing and thinking than actually acting on her impulses) were to do a complete 180 and dump Jordan for a chance with Brian...that would be out of character to say the least. I know that the image of teenagers is impulsive and reckless, but Angela is very introspective and methodical so if she did make the switch to Brian, it would not be in episode 20. First she would have to torture herself relentlessly with different scenarios in her head. In addition, I agree with SCF that Angela would see the Jordan thing through to the end. She has an emotional dependency that would not allow her, at this point in her life, to be assertive enough to dump him. Sure, she might stick by her virginity thing knowing that Jordan would dump her for it, but that's more passive-aggressive than anything else.


socalledfan wrote:The way I see it, at the end of Episode 19, a spark is lit between Angela and Brian. But the fire will not start for several years.
This was a perfect way to describe the Brian situation!

william bloke
Nicky Driscoll
Posts: 24
Joined: Jul 28th 2002, 4:43 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by william bloke » Aug 12th 2002, 10:48 am

Before heading into the office, I just wanted to make a few statements.

First of all, My sincerest apologies for failing to "log-on" everytime as a registered user(proves the point I've made earlier about the inherent nature of my gender). It's not my intent to hide behind the "anonymity of the Net".
The reason for my Pro-Krakowesque stance is simple; It's heavily biased, but it makes sense. The spectators, we, have an advantageous perspective that Angela does not: The third-person perspective. It's probable that Chase will not choose Brian immediately. But, I think she SHOULD choose Brian if she could see what we do. Generally, I can assume that most of you believe for a long term and substantive relationship that Angela desires, Brian is the answer. Then, why waste any more time on something that could only be a "quick-fix"? Don't expect Brian to wait forever. Obviously, Chase does not see this. It's very frustrating!
The lack of perception is such a tragedy.

To be blatantly frank, Chase just needs to get laid and perhaps this will give her a bit more focus because it's obvious that her hormones have become this "prison" that she exsists in?
"Really? Do you think she did? Really? You think she siliconed her lips? Really?"

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Aug 12th 2002, 5:19 pm

william bloke wrote:Generally, I can assume that most of you believe for a long term and substantive relationship that Angela desires, Brian is the answer. Then, why waste any more time on something that could only be a "quick-fix"? Don't expect Brian to wait forever. Obviously, Chase does not see this. It's very frustrating!
The lack of perception is such a tragedy.
The exact reason why I think that Angela would choose Jordan over Brian is because at the age of 15, a few months is considered "long term." Any ideas of a long term relationship are fantasy at best. I am not trying to be condescending about teenagers because I do remember what it was like to be one, but that said, I am going to to make a blanket generalization and say that a quick fix is what they are after simply because neither Angela nor Brian is not planning marriage just yet. This is immature instant gratification at its best; hence, Jordan is the answer. I understand what you are saying about the ominiscent POV that we have, but that is another reason why I feel that Angela would choose Jordan at this point in her life. She has only seen the tip of the iceberg regarding Brian's feelings for her. Brian may be visible, but he is still peering at Angela from behind Jordan.
To be blatantly frank, Chase just needs to get laid and perhaps this will give her a bit more focus because it's obvious that her hormones have become this "prison" that she exsists in?
I think that the last thing Angela needs at this point is to have sex with ANYONE. She does not have the emotional maturity to deal with something like losing her virginity. Most girls (including Angela) feel that sex is related to love and losing her viriginity is equal to giving a part of herself to the devirginizer. Having sex with anyone during this emotionally rife juncture in her life would only complicate matters and make her even more confused.

I don't think that Angela lives in a prison of her own hormones - if anyone on the show is guilty of that, it's Sharon. She is the one who doesn't have the resolve to resist Brad Pitt. Rayanne, on the other hand, is using sex to validate her self worth. Hormones have very little to do with it. Well, hers anyway. If she is living in a prison of hormones, it's the hormones of the boys.

User avatar
K-man
Liberty High Graduate
Posts: 597
Joined: Jun 29th 2001, 12:44 am
Location: Missouri, U.S. of A.

Post by K-man » Aug 13th 2002, 8:35 am

Angela on crutches...unable to attend school for a month????? Chase just needs to get laid????? Maybe I am rusty on my Caveman jargon/psychology but I am not following these thoughts.?. I don't think these are the answers to Angela's problems with boys.
Daddy sold the farm and they've killed my trees. K-man

Guest

Post by Guest » Aug 13th 2002, 7:53 pm

Perhaps it's my ineptitude in the English language but, what is the question that has been posed? I would partially agree with the majority of you if the question began with WOULD....? Even if this was the case, I cannot see Chase choosing either one of them(maybe Jordan for a quick fix) in the near future. Her "near-impossible" expectations of Jordan and the discovery of Brian's feelings at the end will only complicate her emotional instability.
Now, IF she is willing to choose JC or BK, sex is inevitable. Does anyone really think that if the choice is Catalano, Angela will maintain a purely Platonic relationship with him? Because in my opinion, I don't think so. I'd love to surmise that Jordan will remain happy without "getting any", but this is sheer fantasy. I believe Angela wants this intimate physical relationship, even though she is not ready. But, at this age who really is? Were you emotionally ready when you had it for the first time? Drawing upon my personal experience, I know I wasn't, but it was done regardless.

Also, Hormones definately plays an important role in this equation. Hormonal/pheromonal effects on human behavior is crucial, especially at such a young age. Even as adults, these effects plays an important role in the decision making process. Perhaps there might be a slight difference between genders but, the results are similar. Sexual drive is what makes the world turn on it's axis and I'd love to state the otherwise, but it wouldn't be true(of course, it's not the only reason, but a large part of it). Heck, if sexual drive failed to exsist, then world economies would be brought to it's knees. If you think about it, aren't we all in some way "prisoners", due to lapse in judgement brought upon by temporary hormonal imbalance?

If I'm getting the gist of the question correctly, I think she SHOULD choose Bri-boy because I think she WOULD, given that she sees him with my(didn't say "our")perspective. On equal footing, Jordan does not even come close to measuring up to Krakow. Need I remind everyone also, that Catalano is seventeen-years old? During those important teen-age years when kids emotional development advances leaps and bounds every twelve-months, Jordan is still stuck at 15. It's about progression, not regression.
Why do people hate the notion of Krakow/Chase "entente" so much?

It's just my opinion but, there's certain beauty of being blunt and vulgar at times. If propriety is the only concern that I have in my life, I already have more than enough to swallow in my career. I'm extremely proud that I can become ecstatically blunt while watching Culpepper launches a 80 yd TD pass(with remote in one hand, beer on the other) and still revel in the warmth and tenderness of Woolf or Bronte at night.

william bloke
Nicky Driscoll
Posts: 24
Joined: Jul 28th 2002, 4:43 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by william bloke » Aug 13th 2002, 8:17 pm

I forgot to log-in, AGAIN! D'oh!
At this rate, I'll never be promoted to "Tino".

I can see that the margin is widening by the minute.
Listen, I'm a relentless believer in the old saying "Behind every great man, there's a great woman". Yeah, It's probable that I'll be pounced on because of this sexist statement and be ripped apart like Pentheus by the women. But, Brian has a very bright future and I think it's crucial that he finds the right person to help him get there. Also, Chase could learn much about herself and what love could be, by being there for him.
"Really? Do you think she did? Really? You think she siliconed her lips? Really?"

william bloke
Nicky Driscoll
Posts: 24
Joined: Jul 28th 2002, 4:43 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by william bloke » Aug 14th 2002, 12:44 am

Where the heck are all the Krakow supporters? Am I the only one left within the legions of Krakow-ites?
Gimme a break people! This is an uphill battle. I feel as if I've just landed on Utah beach on D-day, trying to assault a German machine gun bunker with a rubber chicken! Where's the artillery? Where's my air support?

NOTE: The author of this post DID NOT click seven-times for Brian.
"Really? Do you think she did? Really? You think she siliconed her lips? Really?"

User avatar
KrokRos
Angela's best friend
Posts: 209
Joined: Jun 6th 2002, 4:10 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Post by KrokRos » Aug 14th 2002, 6:23 am

Sometimes it feels like this post is about my spelling mistakes.

And for those who doesn't like the topic, please don't shoot me.

I never thought you'd write books about the way you cannot answer.

I'm sorry. :D

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests