Who want's to hear my thoughts on love?

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mglenn
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Post by mglenn » Jun 17th 2003, 2:27 pm

I mean if love is just an effort then that's all it'll ever be.
Love is not an effort, Love takes effort. There is a difference. I'm going out on a limb here and guess that you are a teenager or young 20 something. You've been burned, and burned very badly. I assume this because you seem to hold a very destructive outlook toward love.

Once again I'm not trying to pick on you or any thing. Just pulling out what I can see in your statements for your reflection.

I urge you not to seal yourself off from the feelings of others. Its fine to be content and/or "happy" with your life, but don't outright dismiss sharing your enjoyment and happiness with another person, you might be surprised when they share their happiness back with you.
"what makes you think that what you feel for someone is to be exclusively for that someone?" With all the people in the world how do you know what you feel for your significant other is only for them?
This is a very curious statement to me. It doesn't feel like the standard "grass is greener" type of issues, but something deeper. Can you expound on what it would mean to you if you were in love with someone then met another person that you also had feelings for? I don't want to push you. I just want to understand why this would be such a significant issue for you.
"When I disagree with a rational man, I let reality be our final arbiter; if I am right, he will learn; if I am wrong, I will; one of us will win, but both will profit." - Ayn Rand

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Post by GaryEA » Jun 17th 2003, 2:32 pm

Do you really need to be in a relationship to be happy? I've been in love before it was literally the most painful time in my life. Why repeat that and be miserable again when I can just be happy?
To answer the first question; No. You can be happy as a clam without ever falling in love. You can also be in love and have little or no problems.

Love, to me, isn't completing yourself or someone else, it's creating a whole new entity called "us". If you meet someone and both of you recognize that you are in love with each other, you have started to nurture something new. And that going to take work, but it also doesn't mean you're going to get run down.

That relationship that was so painful for you still has your heart. It has you firmly and you have to figure out a way to shake it. What you are asking is less about love and more about how to recover the passion you once had, before you were hurt. And that's natural - this stuff takes time to both create and walk away from.

The only way you can repeat that miserable time is if you bring it with you into a new relationship. The new person doesn't represent heartache - the memories of the past, and how you are dealing with them, do.

Again, I hope this helps. I think you have a group of people here who care and have shared similar experiences. I know I have.

Gary

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lance
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love what else?

Post by lance » Jun 17th 2003, 3:38 pm

:shock:

Wow,

Tough but interesting thread. Okay my take on things. This comes from a dude who has been married for under two years.

No, you don't have to be married or even dating. One can be perfectly "happy" being single till the end of time. The key IMHO is being secure with yourself. If you like yourself and don't honestly feel the need for intimate or have a permanet relationships with another human being, no problem. I certainly know people who are single and that works out just fine for them.
Do you really need to be in a relationship to be happy? I've been in love before it was literally the most painful time in my life. Why repeat that and be miserable again when I can just be happy?
Ahh, getting burned with a previous relationship and thus reluctant to dive back in. I understand this, I don't make it a philosophy of life, but I understand it.

I do agree with GaryEA and others, just because you have been burned in the past, don't let that interfere with future possibilities. So you don't feel like pursuing romantic interests right now? That's cool. What happens if say a couple of weeks (or months) from now a wonderful person comes along and takes an interest in you? Will you rebuff that person's advances out of sheer principle? Would getting to know someone new and letting them into your life be an admission of weakness? Some questions to ponder.

With every relationship exist risk, but with every relationship possibliites exist. I am trying not to go into cliches here.

Anyway just my two cents,

Best,

Lance Man

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Post by MartinPierre » Jun 17th 2003, 4:07 pm

StvnPtrckMoz wrote:
In effect, true love is not a magical feeling, but a daily continuous effort.
If true love isn't some magical feeling and inexplicable and blah blah blah would it be safe to assume that the term love in and of itself is made up? I mean if love is just an effort then that's all it'll ever be.

and MartinPierre's post seemed somewhat striking. If 'love' is the will to help further someone's life couldn't that term literally be about anyone? Which brings me back to one of my other questions "what makes you think that what you feel for someone is to be exclusively for that someone?" With all the people in the world how do you know what you feel for your significant other is only for them?

sorry MartinPierre if it seems I'm tearing into your post, I just found it fascinating.

SNIPPED

But I still don't find the idea of love believable in any respect. I mean MartinPierre said it best (and I'm sorry for misquoting you or taking your words out of context if it's the case) "Love isn't a magical feeling, it's a continuous effort" and like I said if it's just an effort what else more can it be?

what makes you think that what you feel for someone is to be exclusively for that someone?" With all the people in the world how do you know what you feel for your significant other is only for them?

I never said it was exclusive. I don't just love 1 woman. I love two actually totally...

I love my wife.
And I love my daughter.

And to a lesser degree other woman, like my mom and my friends who appear to be girls. In English, Loving and Liking is seperate.. Not in French.

I want the best for my wife, and for my friends.

Notice I didn't say ANYTHING about sex... Sex is an ENTIRELY different subject than love !

I do believe that a loving relationship is best only between 2 persons, because it is complex enough between two.

Imagine between 3 or 4 !

But if everybody is happy, I don't see why a threesome would be bad.

I do see cheating or having an affair as being unloving. I don't see how cheating on my wife helps her. On the contrary, it will hurt her emotions.


As for love being only an effort, it is more than that. It is a will, a state of mind.

But not an emotions...

Emotions change with our mood.

True love stays.

I might feel cranky one morning, but I will rarely not love my wife.

To me, saying love is an emotion is like saying Love not under your powers.

If you stop loving your wife, you had no control over it.

I say BULLSHIT. You can choose who you love, but not the one you are attracted to initially.

If you think you stopped loving your wife, it is only the attraction that left.

And thrust me, if you trully love someone, the attraction will not leave !

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Post by meggrrrl » Jun 17th 2003, 4:22 pm

People live for whatever their situations dictate they need or at least in my humble opinion I think they do. I think you know where this sentence is going...
I really don't. Where were you going with that?

I don't understand what it is that you don't believe. Some places you say you don't believe in love at all ("I'm not sure if I can accept the theory or concept of 'love'. ") And in almost the same bearth admit that you have been in love in the past.

You seem to be rejecting the notion that romantic love in necessary to lead a fulfilled life, and I don't see anyone disagreeing with you. What is puzzling many of us, though, is your denying the entire concept of love. Surely you witness love existing in the world every day, almost as sure as you can see it. A new mother cradling her baby. A man working and sacrificing to support his family. A brother taking out a second mortgage so he can send his younger sister through college. Someone taking a dog home from the shelter. Counselers, nuns, weddings, engagement rings, each is a physical proof of love of some kind.

If you are swearing off love because of one bad experience, then you are in for a lifetime of hurt. If you are questioning the pre-packaged definitiion of love that American society has tried to sell you, then you are certainly heading down the right path.

I was stunned to find that marriage love is nothing like hwat I had ever even heard of or expected it to be. After 3 1/2 years of marriage, my heart doesn't quicken when I see my husband. Marriage love is not like the strongest crush you've ever had (as I expected it ot be) but rather like the dearest friend you've ever had. It's not exciting, and that's why I'd never heard of it; because if someone had told me about it, I surely wasn't listening. I was looking for Baz Lurhman love. This is more like Barry Levinson territory.

So I think you're actually right in a sense. The type of love you're thinking of might not exist. The passionate, I-need-you-to-complete-me, Princess Bride type love is rare, if not alltogether a myth. My husband and I are best buds who also have sex. It's wonderful. The best type of roommate you could have!

But, seemingly contrary to everything I just said, if he died, I'd surely die in the very next breath, I need him so much.

Meg
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Post by Megs » Jun 17th 2003, 4:59 pm

That was a beautiful post, megrrrl. And written so eloquently.
But, seemingly contrary to everything I just said, if he died, I'd surely die in the very next breath, I need him so much.
I am with you on this one. I said above that I am a complete person without my husband. I may have lied. If I ever lost him, a big part of me would be lost, as well. I need him.
Immature love says "I love you because I need you." Mature love says "I need you because I love you." - Erich Fromm
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Post by FuzzyFreaky » Jun 18th 2003, 1:54 am

I don't understand what it is that you don't believe. Some places you say you don't believe in love at all ("I'm not sure if I can accept the theory or concept of 'love'. ") And in almost the same bearth admit that you have been in love in the past.
I have been in 'love' in the past but like you said I'm trying to figure out what the concept of 'love' is or if it exists altogether. I'm trying to learn why people say they need others to be complete (not necessarily anyone on this board but whoever says that kinda crap) Or why people need to be uhmm... needed by others.
"what makes you think that what you feel for someone is to be exclusively for that someone?" With all the people in the world how do you know what you feel for your significant other is only for them?
What I meant when I said this was how is anyone who claims they love one person and one person only knows that they would never share the same feelings with someone else. There are billions of people out there how is possible to love one and only one person (I reiterate, this doesn't necessarily apply to people on the board just to whoever says that kinda crap)
But it IS possible to love someone without fighting, cheating, or emotionally abusing. It's called being mature.
Tell that to my sister and her idiot husband... but I digress.

People live for whatever their situations dictate they need or at least in my humble opinion I think they do. I think you know where this sentence is going...
I just meant that the current situation that you're in will determine what you need and I was gonna say you don't need love to happy after that.
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Post by David Cassidy » Jun 18th 2003, 3:00 am

Okay I had a discussion with my friend about love a few days ago and I told her that I would never get involved with anyone because I don't feel I need a partner in my life to be happy because I believe love to be fictional. What is love really anyway? Companionship? or just the need to release your sexual urges? I think people in general are just afraid of being alone and they need others to help them stay away from their fears. I also don't think that love is possible, in a world with so many people how can you know for sure that what you claim you feel for someone is just for that someone?

Someone argue with me, I wanna get to the bottom of this.
I think I love you!

:hug:

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Post by mglenn » Jun 18th 2003, 8:51 am

I'm trying to learn why people say they need others to be complete...Or why people need to be uhmm... needed by others
Those are subjective questions, they can be answered differently by different people. To which I pose the question of why you feel you need the answers to those questions? If you can answer that you may go along way to answering those questions for yourself.

To do my best here I'll say that I am a complete person, both physically and emotionally. I was a happy person when I was single. But now that I'm dating a wonderful girl and have someone to share that happiness with what can be said except that I am now more complete...
...how is anyone who claims they love one person and one person only knows that they would never share the same feelings with someone else.
Many many people get into a second relationship with another person after a spouse dies. Do they love this new person any less or more than their first spouse? Its possible, but in general I believe they can have the same feelings for both people.

Once again a better question is why do you feel its important that you find the answer to this question? What event caused you to feel this is an important question? Answering that for yourself will more than likely point you in the right direction to answering the first question for yourself.
Tell that to my sister and her idiot husband... but I digress.
If your sister is being emotionally or physically abused you need to attempt to get her help. Get her in contact with a local support group that deals with that sorta thing. But the key here is that you can't do it for her, she has to realize that she's in an unhealthy relationship and want to get out. On the otherhand if its just that you see them arguing once and a while it might just be how they communitcate. In which case they may need some counciling on how to communicate better.
...and I was gonna say you don't need love to [be] happy after that.
And I don't believe anyone here said that you need love to be happy or that love can even make you happy. Two simple rules here... if you can't love yourself then no one else can either. And a second that if you are not happy then no one else will truely make you happy for the long term. Sure others can help you deal with issues, but it all comes back to you, and only you can decide to finally deal with an issue or not.
"When I disagree with a rational man, I let reality be our final arbiter; if I am right, he will learn; if I am wrong, I will; one of us will win, but both will profit." - Ayn Rand

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Post by lance » Jun 18th 2003, 10:13 am

I have been in 'love' in the past but like you said I'm trying to figure out what the concept of 'love' is or if it exists altogether. I'm trying to learn why people say they need others to be complete (not necessarily anyone on this board but whoever says that kinda crap) Or why people need to be uhmm... needed by others.
This is a good observation and question. This is also the sort of cosmic question that you may not find answer to.

On one Sunday one of the priests at my church had a homily on completeness. If you are looking for completeness in material things, you will never be able to buy enough to feel complete. If you for it in televison or celebrities you will not find it. The idea being that you need to be complete with yourself not through another medium.
But it IS possible to love someone without fighting, cheating, or emotionally abusing. It's called being mature.

Tell that to my sister and her idiot husband... but I digress.
The thing is that there will always be difficult, troublesome and ocassionally abusive relationships. This fact does not take away anything from the relationships that do work.

Best,

Lance Man

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Natasha (candygirl)
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Jun 18th 2003, 1:28 pm

Re: needing someone - yes, we all feel the need to be loved and unalone, but we go about achieving this in many ways. If you see nothing wrong with having healthy relationships with friends, family, coworkers, heck anywhere that you have contact with people (church, sports, volunteer work), then why see something wrong with the concept of finding one person who knows you very well, someone who accepts you as you are and is supportive and loving? Very few people genuinely want to be completely isolated from society, and finding a mate is one way of being connected and being part of the interwoven network that we call life. I think it's a bit much to say that we seek out boyfriends/girlfriends just because we don't want to be alone.
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Re: love

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Jun 18th 2003, 1:34 pm

David Cassidy wrote:
Okay I had a discussion with my friend about love a few days ago and I told her that I would never get involved with anyone because I don't feel I need a partner in my life to be happy because I believe love to be fictional. What is love really anyway? Companionship? or just the need to release your sexual urges? I think people in general are just afraid of being alone and they need others to help them stay away from their fears. I also don't think that love is possible, in a world with so many people how can you know for sure that what you claim you feel for someone is just for that someone?

Someone argue with me, I wanna get to the bottom of this.
I think I love you!

:hug:
Hahaha!!

:lol:
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

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Re: love

Post by Megs » Jun 18th 2003, 2:16 pm

candygirl wrote:
David Cassidy wrote:
Okay I had a discussion with my friend about love a few days ago and I told her that I would never get involved with anyone because I don't feel I need a partner in my life to be happy because I believe love to be fictional. What is love really anyway? Companionship? or just the need to release your sexual urges? I think people in general are just afraid of being alone and they need others to help them stay away from their fears. I also don't think that love is possible, in a world with so many people how can you know for sure that what you claim you feel for someone is just for that someone?

Someone argue with me, I wanna get to the bottom of this.
I think I love you!

:hug:
Hahaha!!

:lol:
Hee. I love this! :go:
"I have all these dreams where I know exactly what to say. And you tell me, you know, that you forgive me."

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Post by starbug » Jun 19th 2003, 5:08 am

candygirl wrote: But it IS possible to love someone without fighting, cheating, or emotionally abusing. It's called being mature. I know that I was guilty of that kind of crap when I was in high school/college. Once you are secure with who you are and don't feel the need to control/manipulate others, it is very possible to have a normal healthy relationship. I have been with my boyfriend for years and I can count on one hand how many times we have fought. Not because we agree about every little thing, but because we don't feel the need to be petty and competitive and turn everything into a conflict, have tons of drama, etc.
Seconded and thirded! Well said...

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Post by pistolpeg » Jun 19th 2003, 11:24 am

"what makes you think that what you feel for someone is to be exclusively for that someone?" With all the people in the world how do you know what you feel for your significant other is only for them?
While I agree that you can love or have feelings for many different people, I do believe that what you feel for a significant other is only for them. Since every person is different and every relationship is different I don't think that you ever feel exactly the same about more than one person. Every relationship and encounter and the feelings involved are unique and special and cannot be exactly duplicated IMHO.
Sometimes someone says something really small, and it just fits right into this empty place in your heart.

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