Discussion for Episode 14: On the Wagon

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
Guest

Post by Guest » Aug 25th 2003, 1:58 pm

I thought Jordan's comment to Rayanne was somewhat interesting.You know,when he says to her in the hallway:"you'll be okay,just wear something tight".His comment shows a big lack of respect and it also shows how guys in general view Rayanne-she's just someone to sleep with,a slut, sexual object.I mean,can you imagine Jordan saying something like that to Angela?

User avatar
grim4746
Krakow
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug 8th 1999, 2:14 am
Location: Canada

Post by grim4746 » Aug 25th 2003, 6:10 pm

Anonymous wrote:I thought Jordan's comment to Rayanne was somewhat interesting.You know,when he says to her in the hallway:"you'll be okay,just wear something tight".His comment shows a big lack of respect and it also shows how guys in general view Rayanne-she's just someone to sleep with,a slut, sexual object.I mean,can you imagine Jordan saying something like that to Angela?
I actually can imagine Jordan saying somehting like that to Angela. I don't think that it's necessarily a lack of respect so much as having a skewed value system. I think Jordan thinks this sort of thing is okay and puts little respect/significance on sex in general (ranging from dressing like a whore, to promiscuity, and pressuring someone into unwanted sex). For example Jordan suggests to angela in "guns and gossip" that "I mean if everybody's already assuming it anyway maybe, we should just [have sex]". Or even more impressively in "Pressure" because she doesn't want to have sex with him right away: "Because you just don't get it, okay? You're *supposed* to! It's accepted -- it's what you're supposed to do! Unless you're --like -- abnormal. Uh." I think "wear something tight" is fairly tame compared to some of the things he's said to Angela. Sometimes he's a pig. But yeah I guess a lot of guys do view Rayanne as a slut/sex object as shown by the sophmore poll. rayanne seems to go out of her way to portray this image though. Possibly it's part of her goal to make things happen. Or she thinks it as good way to get attention. The term defense mechanism comes to mind but I'm too sick of this buzz word to explore that right now. or she may just be really into making out, sex etc and wants to do it even though she hasn't been able to find one person who she wants to stay with.

Guest

Post by Guest » Aug 26th 2003, 2:39 pm

grim4746 wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I thought Jordan's comment to Rayanne was somewhat interesting.You know,when he says to her in the hallway:"you'll be okay,just wear something tight".His comment shows a big lack of respect and it also shows how guys in general view Rayanne-she's just someone to sleep with,a slut, sexual object.I mean,can you imagine Jordan saying something like that to Angela?
I actually can imagine Jordan saying somehting like that to Angela. I don't think that it's necessarily a lack of respect so much as having a skewed value system. I think Jordan thinks this sort of thing is okay and puts little respect/significance on sex in general (ranging from dressing like a whore, to promiscuity, and pressuring someone into unwanted sex). For example Jordan suggests to angela in "guns and gossip" that "I mean if everybody's already assuming it anyway maybe, we should just [have sex]". Or even more impressively in "Pressure" because she doesn't want to have sex with him right away: "Because you just don't get it, okay? You're *supposed* to! It's accepted -- it's what you're supposed to do! Unless you're --like -- abnormal. Uh." I think "wear something tight" is fairly tame compared to some of the things he's said to Angela. Sometimes he's a pig. But yeah I guess a lot of guys do view Rayanne as a slut/sex object as shown by the sophmore poll. rayanne seems to go out of her way to portray this image though. Possibly it's part of her goal to make things happen. Or she thinks it as good way to get attention. The term defense mechanism comes to mind but I'm too sick of this buzz word to explore that right now. or she may just be really into making out, sex etc and wants to do it even though she hasn't been able to find one person who she wants to stay with.
I agree that he's a pig."Unless you're abnormal" proves it. :?

Howewer,I also don't think he woud say something like that to Angela.As far as I know he has a thing for her,right?So when you have a thing for a girl you don't say"hey sweety, wear something thight so that my friends and the rest of the male population can check out your butt". :-P

Clockwork orange
Nicky Driscoll
Posts: 23
Joined: Aug 26th 2003, 2:15 pm

Post by Clockwork orange » Aug 26th 2003, 2:44 pm

That was me above.Sorry :oops:
"What we do in life,echoes in eternity."

User avatar
Hunee
Between Names
Posts: 155
Joined: Oct 19th 2003, 12:52 am
Location: EARTH!!!
Contact:

Post by Hunee » Oct 22nd 2003, 10:59 pm

This episode is a fun episode and we get to hear Jared sing again... I think that the episode itself shows how Rayanne not only hurts herself but Angela and Rickie... I think more then anything she kind of cries out for help and when she needs someone mainly Angela she is not there for her and is hurt but when she thanks Patty for her life it shows that she does care that she is alive but then she takes a drink at the end so it is kind of like an endless circle with Rayanne...
so make the best of this test, and dont ask why
its not a question, but a lesson learned in time its something unpredictable, but in the end is right i hope you had the time of your life

User avatar
grim4746
Krakow
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug 8th 1999, 2:14 am
Location: Canada

Post by grim4746 » Oct 22nd 2003, 11:48 pm

I love that scene with Rayanne and Patty! It gives me hope that if the series had continued Patty would have loosened up a bit. I agree it was good to hear Jordan sing again, though I could have done without hearing Rayanne singing. I found her rendition of the Sesame Street song obnoxious. I didn't mind at first but after seeing the episode so many times it gets on my nerves. now i just turn down the volume and watch her begin her spiral out of control. you are probably right about it being "an endless circle with Rayanne" but hopefully she would have turned things around eventually.

User avatar
Hunee
Between Names
Posts: 155
Joined: Oct 19th 2003, 12:52 am
Location: EARTH!!!
Contact:

Post by Hunee » Oct 23rd 2003, 12:17 am

yeah i like to believe that... about rayanne turning around... I recently wrote a fanfic about the episode after the dreams episode and I mainly wrote it because my friend was just like Rayanne and when my friend tried to turn around she had a very hard time doing it and there was only so much pain I could see her go through before I had to let her go... It really is painful to see someone you love hurt themselves like that but anyway the episode is called making amends and one night when I found out my friend had gotten so drunk and passed out at this house I was the one who went to get her but when she wouldnt wake up losing my religion played on the radio and I just remembered how Rayannes character was so when I wrote the episode I kind of did it as a dedication to her but anyway in the final scene of my fanfic Residue would play losing my religion and it would show angela with Jordan and when it gets to the part

Consider this
The hint of the century
Consider this
The slip that brought me
To my knees failed
What if all these fantasies
Come flailing around

it shows rayanne falling to her knees drunk just like my friend was but anyway... sorry for the ramble I mean with my friend it was just like an endless circle and that night when I found her I felt so bad that I had pushed her away and it hurt so much... even though sometimes people do things that are wrong sometimes you are the only person they have and the most important thing in life is to be able to trust you friends to know that they would be there... so I mean i think that Rayannes is so relatable in this episode because she really did care about living but I would have hoped that winnie would have turned her around a bit... SORRY FOR THE RAMBLE!!! :oops:
so make the best of this test, and dont ask why
its not a question, but a lesson learned in time its something unpredictable, but in the end is right i hope you had the time of your life

User avatar
svenkid
Nicky Driscoll
Posts: 19
Joined: Sep 11th 2006, 2:52 pm
Location: Arcata, Ca

Post by svenkid » Sep 24th 2006, 4:06 am

good episode. one of my favorite dynamics of the show is Patty's relationships with angela's friends. Its the kind of moments that give me goose pimples.

and what movie were they waiting to see? And who drinks beer out in the open in a movie line in a small town in PA? it's not like they were in New Orleans.
the episode so-called angels, does it to me every time!

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Sep 24th 2006, 3:52 pm

The movie they are waiting to see is Giant, starring Rock Hudson, James Dean, and Elizabeth Taylor. You might want to check out this thread.

True, only a few places in the U.S. allow open alcohol containers in public but that doesn't mean people don't drink on the streets. I don't condemn it, but I don't, you know, condone it.

As for living in a small town, the show takes place in Pittsburgh. Although Angela and the Three Rivers gang appear to live in a more suburban area, Pittsburgh is a big enough city that it doesn't surprise me that some guys would be drinking beer in line outside the movie theater. Living in a big city, you see people doing all sorts of things they shouldn't be doing (drinking, urinating, doing drugs, etc.) right out in the open.
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

User avatar
grim4746
Krakow
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug 8th 1999, 2:14 am
Location: Canada

Post by grim4746 » Oct 1st 2006, 9:30 am

Hmm CG maybe I'm overly suspicious but something about the way you said you don't condem/condone it leads me to believe you may have been sneaking a public beer yourself while typing this. Though Brian's awkwardly wandering gaze is all i have to back up my suspicions. :P
I also love the dynamic between Patty and ANgela's friends.

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Oct 1st 2006, 5:18 pm

Hey, I've only done it in places where it's legal like New Orleans and Laughlin!

:jumplaugh:

I have, however, witnessed my friends doing it illegally.

:nono:

I would never do such a thing! I can never pass up a chance to quote MSCL though.

What I love about Patty's relationship with Angela's friends is how it evolves over the course of the series. She starts out very susipicious of "that rude girl" Rayanne who devoured a brand new brick of cheese and "this Rickie" who is "obviously very confused" and drinking beer in her house, but as she gets used to the fact that they are part of Angela's life, she loosens up a little bit, letting Angela (supposedly) spend the night at Rayanne's on Halloween and seeing Rickie and Rayanne at the Chase house. Sadly, Patty doesn't seem to really see Rickie and Rayanne as real people until there are crises involving them. I think it's easier for her to keep them as caricatures who might drag Angela into a dangerous situation rather than real kids who need as much love and security as her kids get.

The first breakthrough moment for Patty with Rayanne is when Rayanne ODs in Other People's Daughters. Seeing the connection between her college roommate and Rayanne makes her realize what Angela sees in Rayanne, but she still doesn't want that for Angela. I can imagine how hard it is for Patty to see that Angela is choosing someone like Rayanne over a safe, sweet girl like Sharon. When she finds Rayanne cooking in her kitchen in On the Wagon, she tries to be somewhat friendly (although still suspicous) and even offers to let her stay for dinner. It seems like a small thing, but coming from Patty it is very generous. When Patty suspects that Rayanne is drinking again in, it only confirms her belief that Angela's friendship with Rayanne has the potential to end tragically, but she is conerned enough to screw up her courage to call Amber. Although I think a part of Patty IS doing it in a holier than thou way, I think most of her is doing it out of genuine concern for Rayanne. Hearing Angela's confessional speech about her relationship with Rayanne overwhelms Patty, but it also sheds a lot of light on why Rayanne was cooking with Graham earlier. When she goes to Rayanne's house the next morning, her discussion with Amber makes her realize that Rayanne is part of her life, like it or not, and she stops resisting that concept, finally accepting Rayanne as part of her life through Angela. It's very sweet to see her tell Rayanne to call her Patty. It puts her on the same footing as Sharon.
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

AniAnnika
Jody Barsh
Posts: 27
Joined: Nov 11th 2005, 10:15 pm

Post by AniAnnika » Oct 1st 2006, 9:33 pm

<Sadly, Patty doesn't seem to really see Rickie and Rayanne as real people until there are crises involving them. I think it's easier for her to keep them as caricatures who might drag Angela into a dangerous situation rather than real kids who need as much love and security as her kids get. >

I don't think it's quite that she thinks of them as "caricatures" at first (although I don't think you're completely off base); moreover, I think before she knows them and learns to care for them and accept them as a part of her daughter's life (and therefore hers), she does what any parent would naturally do and only sees them as potential negative influences - so she holds them at bay. As she gets to know them and how unstable they are, she realizes that she can be a positive adult "role model" (or at least an adult to lean on) for them. I think the progression is very natural and completely realistic to how any good parent with a relatively good daughter (like Angela) would deal with the situation. That's why I love this show so much!

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Oct 1st 2006, 10:44 pm

Maybe caricatures wasn't the best word choice. I just meant that she sees Rayanne as a stereotypical bad influence rather than a teenager who wants love and attention as much as Angela does. She keeps her in that generic category so that she can be judgemental rather than compassionate. In So-Called Angels, she later realizes that Angela, Rayanne, Sharon, Brian, and Rickie could have very easily been different if they'd been born into different circumstances. Her conversation with the angel helps her understand what she has slowly been learning - that Rickie and Rayanne are good kids who were put in less than ideal situations.
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

User avatar
Bacchante
Let's Bolt Regular
Posts: 82
Joined: Sep 12th 2010, 2:39 am

Re: Discussion for Episode 14: On the Wagon

Post by Bacchante » Mar 27th 2011, 12:02 am

I read this whole thread (or skimmed), and unless I missed it, no one brought up the following idea, which seemed really prominent to me when I first watched this episode.

What if Angela didn't want to help Rayanne get in the band because somewhere in the back of her mind, she was afraid that Rayanne could hook up with Jordan? Given the state of Angela's relationship with Jordan at that point (extremely unstable, but maybe going somewhere), it would make sense for Angela to want Jordan for herself and not feel comfortable with Rayanne (or any other girl) being around. It's sort of interesting that in the scene where the remaining Frozen Embroys members get into a big fight and Jordan freaks out, it's Rayanne who's there first (before his call to Angela). And there are other moments like that which sort of foreshadow Betrayal, if you ask me.

I understand Rayanne's tragedy, but like someone mentioned, she really is too focused on herself. I think a friend should stay away from her friend's semi-boyfriend (mainly because of the indefinite status of the relationship) in all ways possible, and Rayanne should know that.
"I know you think, how could someone like me understand. Only, I do."

User avatar
Jody Barsch*
Lifehead
Posts: 1166
Joined: Jun 30th 2003, 1:30 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Discussion for Episode 14: On the Wagon

Post by Jody Barsch* » Jun 4th 2011, 8:41 am

Interesting possibility, but I don't know that I agree with it. I think Angela just doubts that Jordan would ever want Rayanne in his band, which turns out to be true. She's seen how he shuts down around Rayanne, and he's only just kicked them out of his car. To me, Angela seems uncomfortable trying to influence Jordan, and doesn't want to have to suggest something that she knows he won't want to hear.

Rayanne's there for Jordan's "we're ridiculous" exclamation (which is one of my favorite Catalano moments in the series), but I've never seen this as a sign of intimacy between them, or foreshadowing. On the contrary, Rayanne being there is the catalyst for further -- but still very limited -- intimacy between Jordan and Angela; he calls her for the first time. (Another of my favorite Catalano moments: him making a point to say "no one even invited her"; it just doesn't seem like something Jordan Catalano would care about).

It seems like the reason so many people are shocked by "Betrayal" is because, other than that ambiguous remark Sharon made made about Jody Barsch, there is nothing to foreshadow it happening.
Kickstart The Riches movie!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 0 guests