Why are you like this?

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
Post Reply
Lindsay
Overlooked Sibling
Posts: 48
Joined: Nov 14th 2002, 8:10 pm

Why are you like this?

Post by Lindsay » Mar 27th 2003, 5:36 pm

Like what? LIKE WHAT DAMMIT! Seriously, what does Jordon mean?

AngelaBee
Tino
Posts: 10
Joined: Oct 31st 2002, 10:54 pm

Re: Why are you like this???

Post by AngelaBee » Mar 27th 2003, 6:14 pm

Lindsay wrote:Like what? LIKE WHAT DAMMIT! Seriously, what does Jordon mean?
I think that he means that it bothers him that Angela gets so emotionally involved while trying to form a relationship with him. Remember the first time they met, in his car in front of Brian's house? He told her that she talks a lot. He just wanted to kiss her, and didn't want to talk. I think that it's the same kind of thing that's bothering Jordan at the dance.
He just wants to fool around with her, but she wants a whole relationship with him. I think that's what is bothering him. He wants her to just be like other girls who will just fool around with him, without getting attached.

User avatar
nkatsa
Three Rivers Resident
Posts: 57
Joined: Sep 10th 2002, 2:49 pm

Post by nkatsa » Mar 27th 2003, 9:03 pm

ahhh, the eternal mystery of the answer to the question "how, how am I?!" ;)

you know, i've had many dreams (nightmares, really) where this very situation happens with various different people in my life, but I always (ALWAYS!!! :x ) wake up right when i'm about to get the answer. dammit. the question will haunt me for the rest of my days, i just know it. :lol:
I bet you can actually die of embarrassment. I bet it's been medically proven.

User avatar
TomSpeed
Marshall Wannabe
Posts: 1226
Joined: Jan 13th 2003, 3:37 pm
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Contact:

Post by TomSpeed » Mar 28th 2003, 12:23 am

"How am I?" is a question we all want the answer to many times in our lives. It's always a big mystery what other people think about us. Depending on our self esteem, we could lie awake at night wondering why the person we are with loves us. Or we could be so happy that we might not even care about our faults or their faults. Sometimes, we ask the question aloud. It's a tough question for somebody to answer. I can tell you that I had no clue why I loved the women I've loved. Sure, I could say that they were pretty, smart, sexy, etc. But those are only parts of the whole. The whole is largely undefinable. I have no idea why they wanted to be with me, since I am a terrible, terrible person (well, maybe not all of the time :) ).
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

ForgiveMeLove
Frozen Embryo
Posts: 3
Joined: Mar 12th 2003, 4:09 pm

Post by ForgiveMeLove » Mar 28th 2003, 10:46 am

I think Jordan is frustrated because Angela makes him feel something he doesn't think he is supposed to be feeling. She makes him feel more than he is willing to. And in his mind maybe they could have fun if it wasn't all complicated by those feelings of caring, possibly love.

That's a lot for anyone to process, nevermind a (however old Jordan was) 17? 18? year old guy. Or a 15 year old girl. Yea...anyone.

But it's usually the person, the one who frustrates, intrigues and challenges you that makes you really feel, the one that makes you step outside yourself and see something from another perspective. Those are the ones that make a real impact. Angela did that many times for Jordan. And Jordan for Angela.
-Melody
"It's wasn't as good as you remember...It was better."

Guest

Post by Guest » May 16th 2003, 7:30 am

I think he means it in a good way, judging from the tone of his voice.That's just Jordan talk,like in Self esteem(the sonnet), he can't explain why he's in love with Angela, he just knows that he is.The way he says"like how you are" does not show frustration, it shows affection, care, admiration.Of course,Angela, being self-conscious as she is, thinks of it as a negative thing.

Tomspeed, you're so on right track here.

User avatar
lithiumkat
Three Rivers Resident
Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 11th 2003, 5:51 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Contact:

Post by lithiumkat » May 20th 2003, 4:48 am

TomSpeed wrote:"How am I?" is a question we all want the answer to many times in our lives. It's always a big mystery what other people think about us. Depending on our self esteem, we could lie awake at night wondering why the person we are with loves us. Or we could be so happy that we might not even care about our faults or their faults. Sometimes, we ask the question aloud. It's a tough question for somebody to answer. I can tell you that I had no clue why I loved the women I've loved. Sure, I could say that they were pretty, smart, sexy, etc. But those are only parts of the whole. The whole is largely undefinable. I have no idea why they wanted to be with me, since I am a terrible, terrible person (well, maybe not all of the time :) ).

Makes me think of the whole confrontation between Sharon and Kyle in the band room, where eventually all Kyle could say to attempt to explain was "it's everything it's......you"
"people always say how you should be yourself, like yourself is this definite thing...like a toaster or something, like you can know what it is even."

Just4Robin
Frozen Embryo
Posts: 2
Joined: May 29th 2003, 7:38 pm

Like, how you are...

Post by Just4Robin » May 29th 2003, 7:48 pm

Ah, I just got the DVDs and that was one of the first moments I had to watch! Along with...

-Can we go somewhere?

-I wanna be sedated...

-...just...entering...

and my all time favorite

-You like me? Your mother says you like me.

Guest

Re: Like, how you are...

Post by Guest » May 30th 2003, 11:34 am

Just4Robin wrote:
-You like me? Your mother says you like me.
oh i love that part! jordan even looks hot eating cheese *sigh* :wink:

pistolpeg
Liberty High Student
Posts: 33
Joined: May 1st 2003, 11:22 am
Location: VT

Post by pistolpeg » May 30th 2003, 11:47 am

That is my favorite Angela/Jordon moment. It cracks me up and it is so nice to see them relaxed and joking around together
Sometimes someone says something really small, and it just fits right into this empty place in your heart.

Dark Apprentice

Why are you like this? Like what? Like how you are?

Post by Dark Apprentice » Aug 2nd 2003, 11:11 am

In "Life of Brian", Jordan and Angela meet outside the premises of the World Happiness Dance event and Jordan asks her a rather alarming question:

Jordan: Why are you like this?
Angela: Like what?
Jordan: Like how you are?

Angela is clearly puzzled by his question and she asks twice: "How am I? ,,,.How...How am I?"

It is interesting to note that earlier Angela and Rayanne were discussing whether Jordan would be attending the World Dance Happening at all. In Rayanne's opinion he would likely not go, he was not the person to attend such events. Still, Jordan shows up, immediately makes eye contact with Angela and prompts his question at first chance. It would seem that Jordan, for the first time in MSCL, is making an honest attempt at coming to terms with his relationship with Angela. Evidently, MSCL is making the point that the only reason for Jordan to go to the World Happiness dance was to see Angela.

In the succeeding episode, "self-esteem", there is a very similar scene to the one above in the boiler-room (where they meet to make out), only now the tables have turned:

Angela: "Why are you like this?"
Jordan: "Like what?"
Angela: "Like how you are?"


(* The above scenes are not only similar in dialog, but also with respect to the surroundings in which they take place. In both cases Angela and Jordan are standing alongside a metal-barred fence and the lighting is sort of dimmed. It incites us to wonder whether MSCL is trying to convey some deeper symbolic meaning)

Angela's question is prompted by Jordan's unwillingness, or at least reluctance, to acknowledge her in the presence of his friends, by which Angela is both puzzled and angered.

The two scenes are key-points in the relationship of Angela and Jordan as described by MSCL, because they emphasise how very differently the two of them view it and experience it. Jordan has a very "physical" relationship. All he wants is to kiss her and make out with her. He elegantly escapes any attempts on Angela's part to embark on any intimate conversation. As Angla herself phrases it in voiceover:
"...we barely talked, so when we did, it came out sounding very meaningful"

Angela's relationship with Jordan is very "emotional". She often thinks of him and often talks about him to her friends. She wants to get to know him on an intimate level, to really get to know him. Jordan on the other hand, never mentions Angela to his friends, and wants to keep their rendezvous a secret.

As hard as it is for Jordan to be or even feel committed to another person or as aversed as he is to open up to Angela in a real conversation, he is still somewhat sensitive to her and her idea of a "true relationship":
"sex or conversation, ideally both!" ( Angela to Rayanne in "Pilot" ).

Verbal conversation seems to be a prominent aspect in Angela's notion of "a true relationship", alongside that of being recognized and appreciated. To Jordan, sex seems to be the most pronounced entity, at least for the time being. ( Well, boys will be boys... :-) Jordan equates love with sex whereas Angela equates love with "recognition of oneself and the other", mutual respect and emotional devotion.

Neither of them is right, of course, in terms of defining a "real relationship". In a sense, Angela is right, and certainly _more_ right than Jordan, but fails miserably in her attempts to lay _herself_ and her feelings on Jordan; to make him understand what she wants from him. She advances too fast. She makes demands on Jordan long before their "involvement" gets a chance to grow and develop. She proposes for him to show up at her parents house when it is clear he would rather not. She habitually interprets situations and statements in a way suited to fit her desires and needs. Think of how she misinterprets (with a good deal of help from Rickie) Jordan's song "I call her red". Like Jordan says (to Rickie), "It's like she makes this big deal out of everything". She is acting immaturely over her love, as forgivable as that may be for someone so young and so much in love...

For Jordan's part there is little or no defense to be offered. Well, one could certainly argue that he is young and craving sex like any other poor hormonally challenged youngster. However, sex is mostly an empty experience without the presence of that mysterious "thing" love. So, to get past the mere physical need for sex, in order for it to advance to something a lot more rewarding, Jordan has to give their relationship time to grow into love, to grow beyond his control and to surrender himself to it. MSCL excellently makes this point in "Pressure", through the character Rickie (talking to Angela, not Jordan):

"I just think it should be like a miracle, like seeing a comet or just feeling like you are seeing one. Seeing the other person's perfectness or something. And if you do it before you are even ready, how are you going to see all that?"

In a sense, I think Jordan and Angela are both making the same mistake, only from different perspectives. They are both prematurely expecting too much from their relationship. Still, as the series progress, we may find grounds for hope of salvation. In the last episode, "In dreams begin responsibilities", we realise that Jordan has taken a stand, for as he himself tells Patty ( probably the most central and influential person in Angela's life ):

"It's like, you think you are safe or something. Coz' you can just ... walk away anytime. Because you don't, like, need her. And you don't need anyone. But the thing you didn't realise is, you're wrong". The first few lines refer to a former attitude of his, whereas the latter bears witness of a change. He now readily admits he is "wrong" and by context that he "needs her". Already in "Self-Esteem", in Katimsky's, we could see this acknowledgement beginning to form inside of Jordan.

"The thing you didn't realise is, you're wrong". That one sentence says it all. That one sentence comprises the whole truth about how Jordan Catalano came to understand his true feelings for Angela. He needs her, as frightening as it may seem. Is he then willing to pursue his dream? Is he willing to take on the responsibilites and meet the consequences of realizing his dream? We can only hope...

User avatar
Hunee
Between Names
Posts: 155
Joined: Oct 19th 2003, 12:52 am
Location: EARTH!!!
Contact:

Post by Hunee » Oct 24th 2003, 6:39 am

ForgiveMeLove wrote:I think Jordan is frustrated because Angela makes him feel something he doesn't think he is supposed to be feeling. She makes him feel more than he is willing to. And in his mind maybe they could have fun if it wasn't all complicated by those feelings of caring, possibly love.

That's a lot for anyone to process, nevermind a (however old Jordan was) 17? 18? year old guy. Or a 15 year old girl. Yea...anyone.

But it's usually the person, the one who frustrates, intrigues and challenges you that makes you really feel, the one that makes you step outside yourself and see something from another perspective. Those are the ones that make a real impact. Angela did that many times for Jordan. And Jordan for Angela.
I can totally understand what you mean... I always thought it was the way she makes him feel instead of the actions that she takes... but I was also reading about how Angela in self esteem asks the same question and I think it does root from the same meaning... Its like Angela makes him feel so many things he has never felt before and it is like she has a power over him... I mean in halloween episode after the she tells him that he should care he starts to care and shows up to class and in life of brian his moto is taken away because he i like whatever happens happens but him knowing she was going to be there made him want to be there but seem totally natural... but then in self esteem when she asks him the same question back I think she is asking why do you hide your feelings for me... why do you treat me one way infront of your friends but in a different when we are alone?... I think he takes her hand not only to show he has feelings for her but to let everyone know he does and also a fear of losing what they have...
so make the best of this test, and dont ask why
its not a question, but a lesson learned in time its something unpredictable, but in the end is right i hope you had the time of your life

Guest

Post by Guest » Oct 26th 2003, 4:21 pm

Hunee wrote:
ForgiveMeLove wrote:I think Jordan is frustrated because Angela makes him feel something he doesn't think he is supposed to be feeling. She makes him feel more than he is willing to. And in his mind maybe they could have fun if it wasn't all complicated by those feelings of caring, possibly love.

That's a lot for anyone to process, nevermind a (however old Jordan was) 17? 18? year old guy. Or a 15 year old girl. Yea...anyone.

But it's usually the person, the one who frustrates, intrigues and challenges you that makes you really feel, the one that makes you step outside yourself and see something from another perspective. Those are the ones that make a real impact. Angela did that many times for Jordan. And Jordan for Angela.
I can totally understand what you mean... I always thought it was the way she makes him feel instead of the actions that she takes... but I was also reading about how Angela in self esteem asks the same question and I think it does root from the same meaning... Its like Angela makes him feel so many things he has never felt before and it is like she has a power over him... I mean in halloween episode after the she tells him that he should care he starts to care and shows up to class and in life of brian his moto is taken away because he i like whatever happens happens but him knowing she was going to be there made him want to be there but seem totally natural... but then in self esteem when she asks him the same question back I think she is asking why do you hide your feelings for me... why do you treat me one way infront of your friends but in a different when we are alone?... I think he takes her hand not only to show he has feelings for her but to let everyone know he does and also a fear of losing what they have...
Jordan is one scared kid with huge intimacy issues.I think he realizes that his feelings for Angela are deep but I don't think he's ready to neither accept it nor show it.On some level he is trying to push her away( like in Pressure when he's pressuring her to have sex, I think he knows that she won't go through with it) but on the other hand he doesn't want to loose her(the way he acts when he sees her with Corey-jealous).
So when he says"why are you like this" he's actually saying "Why did you made me fall for you?made me care for you"
You know,IMHO, or whatever. :)

User avatar
Megs
Lifehead
Posts: 1185
Joined: Jun 30th 2002, 11:35 am
Location: NOVA
Contact:

Post by Megs » Oct 26th 2003, 6:14 pm

I also thought that Jordan was referring to Angela embracing Rickie outside of the dance. I think maybe he was jealous to see her like that or... I don't know, but he says it right after seeing her comfort Rickie.
"I have all these dreams where I know exactly what to say. And you tell me, you know, that you forgive me."

Guest

Post by Guest » Oct 27th 2003, 3:35 pm

Megs wrote:I also thought that Jordan was referring to Angela embracing Rickie outside of the dance. I think maybe he was jealous to see her like that or... I don't know, but he says it right after seeing her comfort Rickie.
Yeah,but isn't he aware of Rickie's sexual orientation? :)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest