Question about Shane and Jordan in Self-Esteem

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
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Post by K-man » Mar 25th 2003, 10:46 pm

I agree with you guys here. Just to add to your thoughts; I always got the impression from Shane and the other 'friend who remains nameless' standing at Jordan's locker at the end of the scene that they have an expression of, "It's about time he went up to her" look on their faces. At least I get the feeling that was what they were thinking.
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Post by nkatsa » Mar 26th 2003, 3:20 am

the face shane makes when jordan glances at him is, in my opinion, very much a slightly teasing "aww, look at you, what are you, nervous?" kind of face. and he nods towards her with a smile. personally, there's no doubt in my mind that he's encouraging him. :)
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Post by Guest » May 15th 2003, 6:03 am

I think he probably says something like"Dude, she totally diggs you:Go out there, do your thing".He is probably encouraging him to, like, do her or whatever.Because later in "Pressure" he says"That's the whole reason why I didn't wanna started this thing"(because he knew she won't put out).

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Post by EmGem » Jun 10th 2003, 6:25 am

Have to say I never really noticed this before but after reading this thread, I went and had a look...and I have to say I think Shane is encouraging Jordan here.

Whether this is consistent with his previous behaviour, I'm not really sure cos he does act like a asshole in other scenes in regard to Angela.

But he does seem to be encouraging him and not in a nasty way like 'Oh she's got it bad for you, you can use and abuse her ' but in a 'She likes you, you like her, you'll be alright' kinda way.

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Post by Hunee » Oct 24th 2003, 6:27 am

I think that when Jordan is staring at her and then Shane is looking at her to I think he might be looking at Angela and saying is that that girl from last night or somthing to like who is she and then when she looks away and he looks disappointed I think that he says somthing like yeah so what if she is or what if I like her and Shane kind of looks at him like are you serious... and then maybe when he says that Jordan is like I really blew it what should I do and maybe Shane says like why dont you go and talk to her or something and then Jordan is like yeah and shane is like kind of smiling saying yeah and Jordan takes a deep breath and walks over to her and I think that it doesnt hit him to take her hand until she does a hair tuck and as she drops her hand then he takes it so I would have to say it is definitely encouragement from what I can see but when they show shanes face he doesnt look like he has a reaction to it... I mean the friend behind him is smiling but I guess we will never know what they said...
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Post by MarsJunkie » Oct 31st 2003, 11:29 pm

I agree about Shane being an incouragement. When I first read this, I was not sure because Shane kind of bothered me. However, I did go back and watch the episode over and I agree that Shane was incouraging Jordan to go over to Angela. I think that even though Shane may not agree with Jordan's decision, he understands what Jordan feels for Angela and is standing by his friend's decision.
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Post by Deleted item » Dec 21st 2003, 6:10 pm

I never got the impression that Shane had anything against Angela.It's just that he didn't know her well because she didn't hang out with them and that's way he said that "she is that weird girl...."
I think that the only one with the problem in this situation is Jordan.He's into Angela and people know that.His friends know it,especially Shane since he saw them talking in the classroom and had witnessed them hugging under the bleachers.They also had to wait for Jordan while he was conducting his preforeplay with Angela outside the World Happiness Dance.Rayanne knows it "because she lives in the world" and everyone in the world knows about those two being into each other. :lol:

BUT,Jordan is the one who doesn't want people to know that he has feelings for someone.He is the kind of person who just does it with someone and then "braggs to his budds" and he knows that Angela's not slutty enough for that.Not to mention the fact that he is repressed and emotionally challenged person who is really struggling with expressing himself.And most importantly,he's scared of getting hurt.

Anyway,getting back to the punchline.Jordan thinks that he can hide the fact that he has a thing for Angela.But people notice this things,especially your friends. So, yes I think in the end Shane is encouraging him.He notices him staring at Angela and says something like " there's that weird red head from Friday" just to tease him a bit.And then when he sees how dissapointed he is, he says" God,will you just stop torturing yourself and us and go up there?". And then Jordan makes his move and his friends are like " well,finally.It was about time."

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Post by Jody Barsch* » Dec 24th 2003, 6:27 pm

Deleted item wrote:I never got the impression that Shane had anything against Angela. ... I think that the only one with the problem in this situation is Jordan. He's into Angela and people know that. His friends know it, especially Shane since he saw them talking in the classroom and had witnessed them hugging under the bleachers. They also had to wait for Jordan while he was conducting his pre-foreplay with Angela outside the World Happiness Dance.
I totally agree. (Love the "pre-foreplay" line by the way).
Also in the hall when she was asking him to the movies, and although it wasn't Shane, Jordan's friends did see her at Let's Bolt when he pointed her out, and sitting with him at Tino's party. Remember also that Tino probably knows all about her (he might drop by Brian's house in "Dancing in the Dark", and (in later episodes) he might be looking for Jordan at Angela's house.
Deleted item wrote:BUT, Jordan is the one who doesn't want people to know that he has feelings for someone.
I think that that is true, although I am not quite clear why. Jordan's friends have girlfriends (or somewhat steady dates) - as they exit the World Happiness dance we hear one say to another, 'We're going to pick up Kathy first?" (at least that is how I interpret that scene), and yet Jordan seems hesitant to choose one for himself (or at least one like Angela Chase). And while Jordan's friends have sometimes been less than kind when it comes to Angela – showing impatience (the hug under the bleachers in “Strangers…”, getting him out of the classroom in “Why Jordan…”, while she asks him to the movies in WJCR), and qualifying her as "that weird girl", -- I don't believe that the boys really have anything specific against Angela, but rather that that is just their general behavior as high school boys until compelled for one reason or another to act differently.

I do think that in the last scene of "Self-Esteem" Shane is encouraging Jordan to approach Angela. (Someone's "aww, look at you, what are you, nervous?" made me laugh, and the 'She likes you, you like her, you'll be alright' seems like it would be close in content if not phrasing.) I love how he scrunches his face momentarily to push him on! Anyway, whether Shane is encouraging Jordan because he knows that he really likes her (which is what I lean towards given that IMHO his reaction to Jordan holding Angela’s hand is pretty much analogous to Rickie's - head tilted to the side, eyes following the couple with a satisfied/happy expression), or because he knows that she likes Jordan and Jordan could definitely get some play, Shane is encouraging him to pursue, or at least publicly address, Angela. He tells Jordan to go over there, Jordan hesitates, unsure, they confer again, Shane tells Jordan to go for it and with this final confirmation from his buddy, Jordan commits to the epic crossing of the hallway to finally confront Angela, her friends, his friends, and most of all, his newly identified (thanks Shakespeare) feelings.

While one might doubt Shane’s motives for encouraging his friend to approach Angela, it seems like we should all agree that he is in fact encouraging him. Look at Jordan’s behavior with Brian: in “Zit” he says to Brian, “She wants you man, go for it”, and in “Resolutions” He says, “She would sleep with you … because she would,…. Go get her number” Jordan later confesses that this is how he lives, and I believe that it is safe to assume that this his how his friends live as well. They recognize potential and encourage each other to act on it.

The thing I find so interesting, and possibly endearing about Jordan, is that he is seemingly in control of things -- he is gorgeous, he does well with girls (the most beautiful girl in the sophomore class talks to him in the halls (“Zit”), he lives by getting girls’ phone numbers who are interested in him, sex is normal part of life to him), at times he doesn’t seem to care abut what people say or think about him (humming in the halls in the museum, his abrasive “So?” “So what?” to Brian, going to the boiler room to make out with someone (true, he doesn’t share who he is going there with, but that is not his style in general, and he continues down the stairs even when Shane is thinking he is a little weird “Okay…”), and yet, he is so unsure of himself and dependent on what others think. 1.) While I am sure that he enjoys sex, he says to Angela that ‘it’s what you’re supposed to do” 2.) Even though he is a good singer, and comfortable singing to small low-risk audiences (Rickie- gay, Rayanne- a weird drunk with slut potential, and Angela-in love with him), he does not step forward as the band’s lead singer until Rayanne has left them up there looking like fools (at that point it is less risky for him to step forward and sing, than to stay up there playing with no singer), 3.) he’s tired of his Halloween ritual, and yet he continues to go because he doesn’t want to be left out. He follows them when they order him around “Catalano this blows…” at Tino’s party, at the loft in “WJCR’, and at the dance, 4.) similarly, he recognizes that his friends have expectations for him that he can’t get out of (EX: finding the guy who egged Tino’s car), 5.)Jordan does not treat Angela as she deserves – recognizing that they do have some sort of relationship, and that he does have feelings for her, probably because: A.) he is afraid of acknowledging feelings that might then expose him to getting hurt, B.) he has somehow convinced himself that his friends would not approve, which in the end, really doesn’t seem to be true.
(If you look closely, Jordan has the same vulnerability in him that we so cherish in Angela.)
Deleted item wrote:He is the kind of person who just does it with someone and then "braggs to his budds"
This is where we break paths. I totally disagree with this. Just the way that he silently looks at Rayanne and shakes his head as he walks away when she confronts him with this in “Guns and Gossip,” Jordan solemnly answers that he doesn’t gossip. Rayanne is satisfied with his response, I think we must be too. We have no evidence that Jordan does do it with girls and then brags to his buds, but we have plenty to prove that he does not. He assures Angela, quite convincingly, that he’s not like that, he doesn’t do that, and that he doesn’t lie. In “Pressure” he tells Angela that he’s not going to go into their sex life (such as it is) with his friends. Nor do we ever hear him dishing or boasting about anything.
Borrowing words from Sharon, there are a lot of great reasons not to like Jordan Catalano, without accusing him of things he isn’t guilty of.
Deleted item wrote:Not to mention the fact that he is repressed and emotionally challenged person who is really struggling with expressing himself. And most importantly, he's scared of getting hurt.
This may be true, but given his experiences with his father, and the impact his continued failure in school must have on him (“I’m just not in the mood, to be treated like dirt” ‘She thinks I’m a loser”) and his inability to trust anyone (“I never told anyone before”), and the fact that he has felt betrayed/abandoned in the past (his father, who is supposed to love him and model adult living and relationships for him, instead abuses him; and the only teacher who seemed to care or make a difference left the school,…) Jordan has good reason to behave the way he does, but he is trying to make an effort to reach out and to take a chance in order to connect with someone. In fact, Jordan confides in bits and pieces to a lot of people: Angela- the fact that he can’t read; Rickie- the fact that he doesn’t enjoy doing what his friends expect of him but that he is afraid not to, and that his father abuses him; Patty- that he needs Angela; Rayanne- that he is interested in Angela and that her behavior does in fact affect him; Brian – that he is sorry about what he did to Angela, and that he cares about what she thinks of him.

Edited for spelling.
Last edited by Jody Barsch* on Jul 15th 2011, 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Deleted item » Dec 25th 2003, 3:14 pm

[
quote="Jody Barsch*"]
Deleted item wrote:]He is the kind of person who just does it with someone and then "braggs to his budds"
I totally disagree with this. Just the way that he silently looks at Rayanne and shakes his head as he walks away when she confronts him with this in “Guns and Gossip,” Jordan solemnly answers that he doesn’t gossip. Rayanne is satisfied with his response, I think we must be too. We have no evidence that Jordan does do it with girls and then brags to his buds, but we have plenty to prove that he does not. He assures Angela, quite convincingly, that he’s not like that, he doesn’t do that, and that he doesn’t lie. In “Pressure” he tells Angela that he’s not going to go into their sex life (such as it is) with his friends. Nor do we ever hear him dishing or boasting about anything.
Borrowing words from Sharon, there are a lot of great reasons not to like Jordan Catalano, without accusing him of things he isn’t guilty of.
I didn't say Jordan lies.So of course he shakes his head in G&G,because he didn't do Angela.You say that Rayanne is satisfied with his response, but it is precisely Rayanne that characterized him this way:

"right.And she's not slutty enough for him to just do it with her and then brag to his buds"( Self esteem)

And in that same scene Sharon says "What?You're not cool enough for him to be seen with you?".Which can also be true in Jordan's mind.He has no problem with flirting with Casey Hall in the hallway, but when it comes to Angela Chase, well she's just gonna have to settle for the boiler room near the basement.

You honestly telling me Jordan doesn't brag about his "scores" to his friends?I mean,that's all teenage guys do.
EXT. LIBERTY HIGH - FRONT STEPS - DAY

Rickie and Angela sit on the steps. Rickie steals glances at COREY who
sits some distance away painting A GIRL’S SNEAKERS. Meanwhile, Angela
steals glances at Jordan who stands with a HOLLY GALANOY (previously known
as “a Babe”). Angela looks back at Rickie, catches him looking at Corey.

ANGELA: Rayanne’s right.

RICKIE: About what?

ANGELA: About Corey. That you should ask him to the dance.

RICKIE: She told you!

ANGELA: It’s okay. I understand.

RICKIE: No you don’t. Understand. You don’t understand because... you
don’t. You couldn’t.

Jordan walks off with the babe. Angela watches them go. Beat. Angela
turns back to Rickie.( Original shooting script "Life of Brian")
A few days later he's making out with Angela in the boiler room.So yeah,he DOES screw slut potentials and then braggs to his friends and we Do have evidence; Holly Galanoy(girl from the script), Cynthia Hargrove( Jordan used to umm her).And yeah!I almost forgot! The ever popular Mrs.Graff who he didn't brag about because it wouldn't do him any good at that point.

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Post by Jody Barsch* » Dec 26th 2003, 2:32 am

Okay, Jordan has sex, he makes out with girls, and he flirts with/ checks out even more, never said he didn’t. But you still haven’t proven that he does these things and then brags. Yeah he was with Cynthia, and possibly Holly, but there is no proof that he brags. First, I like to stay away from generalizing anybody, and as I once was in high school, and now teach in one, I feel confidant (despite that fact that I myself never was a teenage boy) in saying that teenage boys do much more than get with girls and brag about it. Jordan Catalano, in most aspects of his life, is a man of few words, I do not see him as the kind that kisses and tells (excuse the cliché), I think he’s classier than that (in regards to that area of his life). As I wrote in an earlier post, I think that Jordan has his own sexual code – after his interlude with Rayanne, awkward as it was, he took the initiative to conduct a little damage control. (Other aspects of this code: a girl shows interest, you get her number; a girl shows interest in your buddy, you tell him to go for it.) Do not mistake my meaning; Jordan is not a noble character who can do no wrong. He makes mistakes, at times he acts selfishly and thoughtlessly, but this is not all he is. Just as Brian can be a dick (spreading rumors about Angela, ditching Delia), Jordan can be tender, and perceptive (warning Rickie about his drunk buddies; helping Rickie find a place to stay ad then letting him feel not so alone by sharing his own history of abuse; he feels bad after he inadvertently called Angela abnormal; he says just the right things to her when they break up; I could go on, and I know that I will probably be challenged on this point as well, but…); Jordan also has his own set of morals.


Rayanne later says in “Self Esteem” "Right. And she's not slutty enough for him to just do it with her and then brag to his buds", but Rayanne is really speaking in terms of her general knowledge of teenage boys rather than specifically to Jordan Catalano. True, Rayanne knows when Jordan will be places (Tino’s party, Let’s Bolt, etc…) but in actuality, how well does Rayanne Graff really know Jordan Catalano. Just because she says this, doesn’t mean that she actually knows that he does it. True, Angela probably isn’t slutty enough for a guy to do it with her and just brag about it to his buddies, but that does not necessitate that Jordan does this. When Rayanne asks Jordan in “Guns and Gossip” if he is telling everyone he “did her” and he shakes his head, Rayanne scrunches her face in satisfaction with a “Just checkin’” – she believes him, he isn’t.
You make a good point that this is a slightly different case because nothing actually happened, therefore we can’t use it to ultimately prove that Jordan would not have bragged about it if something did happen, but I still don’t think he would have, whether he slept with Cynthia Hargrove (“such a sleaze”) or Angela Chase. In the bathroom scene in “Self-Esteem”:
"What? You're not cool enough for him to be seen with you?"
"Right. And she's not slutty enough for him to just do it with her and
then brag to his buds"
Rayanne and Sharon are merely making conjectures about why Jordan is hiding his relationship with Angela. While it is true that Jordan does have apprehensions regarding how his friends would respond to his relationship with Angela, I feel that it is more his fear of forming an actual attachment to someone – recognizing true feelings, that is keeping him from officially recognizing Angela as someone he is romantically invested in. Note that this episode, and the series continually brings us back to that point: A.) While it helps, it isn’t so much that Shane encouraged Jordan to pursue Angela that acted as the catalyst for the epic hall-crossing, but the sonnet – Jordan realizes his feelings through Shakespeare’s words; B.) When Angela confronts Jordan in the Boiler Room, she does mention the fact that he acts differently around her in front of his friends, but this is more a symptom of the problem than the problem itself (that is, it is secondary). She challenges Jordan to admit that he has feelings for her, that he has emotions; C.) In “In Dreams” when Jordan has his talk with Patty, he doesn’t mention that he was worried about what his friends thought, it was much more personal than that – he had to face the fact that he has feelings for her, that he needs her; D.) In later episodes after Jordan recognizes his feelings for Angela in “Self-Esteem”, Jordan seems to have no problem being seen by classmates with Angela – she is neither “not slutty enough” nor “not cool enough” (he brings her to the abandoned house where tons of kids hang out, including his ex; he holds her hand in the halls (“Self-Esteem”, “So-Called Angels”); hangs out with her in the school parking lot and hangs out by her locker, etc. He didn’t have a problem talking to her in public in the earlier episodes – “Guns and Gossip” and on the fieldtrip, outside the dance; in other words, it is not an Angela Chase specific thing that keeps him keeping her in the Boiler room, it is after he starts to feel something more real for her, which freaks him out, that he begins to keep their interactions on the low-down.

I think I might have veered off topic a bit, but my point was that Jordan as personal morals, he doesn’t brag about his conquests, for the simple fact that while, yes, he is interested in sex and sexual activities, he doesn’t think of his experiences as “conquests”, therefore there is nothing to brag about. These things are private to him. Just because Rayanne and Sharon make speculations about him and why he acts a certain way, they don’t KNOW anything.
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Post by Jody Barsch* » Dec 26th 2003, 2:33 am

Wow! It seems like 95% of my posts are dedicated to defending Jordan Catalano. What can I say? I am a Catalano fan.
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Post by Guest » Dec 26th 2003, 10:15 am

Jody Barsch* wrote:Wow! It seems like 95% of my posts are dedicated to defending Jordan Catalano. What can I say? I am a Catalano fan.
Why?What is it about him?I mean,I realize he's a good looking fellow, but what else is there that's so fascinating?

I really can't figure out why is Angela so into him.It just doesn't seem realistic.I understand why she was obsessed with him before she even talked to him.She had her little ideal image of him in her head and she played it over and over again.But by now(end of the show) she should really know better.Jordan constantly acts inconsistently with her perfect fantasy that she created in her mind.So one should expect that Jordan's awful behaviour would encourage her to either "get over him" or to replace "the Jordan Catalano fantasy" with another obsession.

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Post by Deleted item » Dec 26th 2003, 11:50 am

Sorry,that was me above :)


she is neither “not slutty enough” nor “not cool enough” (he brings her to the abandoned house where tons of kids hang out, including his ex;
I think that just proves my "bragging theory".Why do you think he brought her to that house?So that everyone could see him "closing the deal".( okay, that remark was a bit disgusting, even for me but what the hell).Why did he want to do it in the parking lot?( true,he wanted to do it in her bedroom, but only because she suggested it).I mean,if he didn't want people to know about his sex activities and if that's his private business, why didn't he suggest a private place instead of that abandoned place where the intimacy level's reduced to minimum?And later in the "abnormal scene", he says " It's what you're supposed to do.It's expected".Expected by who?His friends,of course.And you know why he's so mad at her?Because she embarrassed him in front of those people in that house-she hurt his poor, little,fragile ego.

And if he doesn't talk about his "scores", how does even Rickie know about sleezy Cynthia?
Rickie : Look at that Cynthia Hargrove.
Rayanne : It's a pierced nose. It's not like an actual personality, or
something.
Angela : Who were you trashing?
Rayanne : Cynthia Hargrove's nose stud. [to Rickie] It's too *small*!
It's like a semi-precious pimple!
Rickie : She's such a sleaze. You are like such an improvement.
Angela : What do you mean? [pause] You mean Jordan went out with
Cynthia Hargrove?
Rayanne : Well, went out -- I mean -- I don't know how many outside
locations they actually *went* to --
Angela : But, she's someone Jordan used to -- um --
Rayanne : Yes, Jordan used to "um" her.
Rickie : You knew that. You *must* have known that. *I* knew that.
Angela : I must have -- blanked out. It's okay. It's no big deal. I
just didn't quite know about -- Cynthia Hargrove. So -- now I know.
[she leaves]
Okay,like you said,he doesn't talk much, but there are other ways to show people what you want them to see( like, for example, screwing chicks in your Plymouth in the school parking lot)

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Post by grim4746 » Dec 26th 2003, 11:22 pm

Deleted item wrote: And if he doesn't talk about his "scores", how does even Rickie know about sleezy Cynthia?

Okay,like you said,he doesn't talk much, but there are other ways to show people what you want them to see( like, for example, screwing chicks in your Plymouth in the school parking lot)
Well, Rickie has a bit of an obsession with Jordan too (at least in the beginning) and has probably paid a bit more attention to his sex life than the average Liberty student. Also 'sleazy' Cynthia seems like the type of girl who wouldn't mind openly telling people that she had sex with Jordan Catalano. And I doubt she would mind having sex in the parking lot or at the abandoned house (if in fact the high school gossip ring is right this time and Cynthia actually did have sex with Jordan). I think Jordan genuinely believes that this is typical sexual behaviour and isn't exhibitionist or about bragging. I think Cynthia probably has the same opinion because their peer group behaves that way, it is just normal and expected to them. Yes possibly bragging is also normal and expected to them but I don't think we've seen any evidence of that. Being easy and not caring if people can see what you are doing is (I believe) a different matter from making a point of specifially telling everyone what you've been doing. I think Jordan is a pig in a lot of ways but I don't think he's likely to be one of the guys who brags about who he has sex with. I don't really think it occurs to Jordan to brag about anything.

I think that Rayanne suggesting that Angela isn't "slutty enough for him to just do it with her and then brag to his buds" says more about Rayanne than Jordan. If we can believe what Rayanne says about herself, then she sleeps around and as a result probably deals with a lot of guys who spread it around afterward. This is part of why Rayanne thinks this is a "very guy thing to do". Yet we have no real indication of Jordan bragging (about sex or anything else).
Jody Barsch* wrote:Remember also that Tino probably knows all about her (he might drop by Brian's house in "Dancing in the Dark", and (in later episodes) he might be looking for Jordan at Angela's house.
I don't think Tino was ever really possibly stopping by Brian Krakow's house. I think that was just a lie Rickie and Rayanne made up so that Jordan would stick around longer and give Angela a chance to spent time with him. They definitely seemed like they were just lying during that scene, though they were slightly more convincing than Rayanne was when saying that Anglea is French :). (I'm still reading your Fanfic, haven't had a lot of time lately, I will give you feedback soon)

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Post by Jody Barsch* » Dec 30th 2003, 8:25 am

Deleted item wrote:Why do you think he brought her to that house?So that everyone could see him "closing the deal"...Why did he want to do it in the parking lot?... but there are other ways to show people what you want them to see( like, for example, screwing chicks in your Plymouth in the school parking lot)
You make a good point in saying that Jordan brings Angela to the not-so abandoned house
Deleted item wrote:I mean,if he didn't want people to know about his sex activities and if that's his private business, why didn't he suggest a private place instead of that abandoned place where the intimacy level's reduced to minimum?
But again I feel that we disagree on what this tells us about Jordan. You seem to be using it as an indication hat Jordan is somewhat of a sexual exhibitionist and always conscious of his peers, looking for ways to let them know he’s getting some. What I see: (A.) you hit right on it when you noted lack of intimacy present in the house, the place Jordan decides they should have sex fort the first time. While I do argue that Jordan has true feelings for Angela, and is not with her only for sex, I also recognize (as does he in ‘In dreams”: “you think you’re safe, ‘cause you can just walk away, you don’t need her, you don’t need anyone’) that Jordan isn’t quite ready for these feelings. Jordan likes Angela, he wants to sleep with her, but he isn’t ready for sex to mean everything it tends to mean when you are in an actual relationship – everything he knows it will mean to Angela 9commitment, responsibility, intimacy) – so in an effort to have sex with a girl he finds himself “falling for” but trying to keep it casual, he brings her to a less intimate/personal space, trying to keep tins on his terms. (B.) the plight of high school students – Where to have sex??? High schoolers have both limited time windows (typically after school, before the parents come home) and locales in which to engage in sex. Angela’s parents’ house is not a realistic option, for whatever reason (another attempt to keep her removed from his personal life; he doesn’t bring friends home because of his father; he is ashamed of his house; etc…), Jordan’s place does not seem to be an option; and it seems like Sharon’s basement of love is probably regularly occupied. :wink: Thus, Jordan and Angela must look for alternate venues. But as they say, necessity is often the catalyst for invention – adolescents find places to have sex, whether it be a car, an empty house, a boiler room … It isn’t that Jordan is an exhibitionist, it’s that he wants to have sex. Jordan Catalano is far from being the first to have sex in he backseat of a car (Patty, Graham, and even Danielle know that this occurs) and to him it is private, he isn’t thinking about the parking lot and what’s outside of the car, but only about the backseat. As far as the house, true, there are other kids there, other kids faced with the same logistical problem. Jordan hardly seems aware of them (at least not until she leaves): no eye contact or conversations, n parading or putting on a show – whatever is going to happen between him and her is going to happen in the privacy of the bedroom, there is no foreplay for he benefit of others (or Angela’s. In this I also see that neither Jordan nor Angela is ready to consummate a physical relationship as there is clearly little intimacy between them: they sit awkwardly on opposite sides of the fireplace (maybe they should not have fast-forwarded the part about intimacy on the sex tape) :wink:

I clearly recognize that Jordan has some issues with sex – while physically experienced this is still new to him, like Angela, he too has a lot to learn about relationships and himself, but one thing I do feel confident about defending Jordan from is this bragging exhibitionist image – I still contend that sex is private for Jordan.


Deleted item wrote:And if he doesn't talk about his "scores", how does even Rickie know about sleezy Cynthia?
I don’t feel I need to explain to you how gossip works, but it is enough that people saw them together. Both his friends and her friends most likely knew abut it (although that does not mean that bragging was involved – you can tell a buddy that you’re with a person without dishing any dirt). Other kids talk (Rickie, Brian, Rayanne, and Angela all see that Sharon and Kyle are together just by observing them at school – they don’t have to brag about it; same with Angela and Jordan – Rayanne knows about it ‘’cause she lives in the world” not because Angela necessarily told her, and Rickie and Brian see them getting back together, but Jordan didn’t have to give them an update.) Similarly, the word about Jordan and Cynthia probably spread this way. Also, Rickie and Rayanne do move is similar social circles as Jordan and Cynthia, they also share a common friend in Tino. In short, there are a million ways that Rickie could have known about Cynthia Hargrove without Jordan having bragged about it.
Kickstart The Riches movie!

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