Graham and Hallie

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
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socalledfan
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Graham and Hallie

Post by socalledfan » May 9th 2001, 1:47 pm

So...I just watched the final episode again ("In Dreams Begin Responsibilities") and the scene where Graham and Hallie *almost* kiss REALLY bothered me! First of all, I can't stand Hallie Lowenthal...her character is loud, obnoxious, and abrasive. If we were to see the resolution of the series with more episodes, does anyone out there think that Graham would have cheated on Patty? I know this is a completely strange topic but it has just been bothering me.

I'm not sure how this would have turned out. After all, Graham chickened out the first time he almost cheated (in episode 1). I thought that after that, he found a renewed sense of commitment to Patty. But the end scene between Graham and Hallie was filled with sexual tension. Aaagh! What do you guys think?


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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by emmie » May 9th 2001, 5:13 pm

that's not a strange question at all. in fact, it has been talked about in here before. my answer is yes, I believe that Graham and Hallie would have eventually cheated. they were going to be working together quite a lot. and talking from restaurant experience, you get very close to the people you work with for so many hours. plus you have Pattie nagging him all the time, ugh, she just really got on my nerves. sorry, not the point. but I think you are right, Hallie and Graham definitely had sexual tension. unresolved tension over a long period of time can easily lead to pressure. and that pressure and desire will just drive you crazy. but anyway, that's what I think.

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by adam » May 9th 2001, 8:06 pm

i don't think graham and hallie would have cheated. i think she would have tried really hard and he would have left like he left the first girl. it's hard for me to say because i havent seen the last few episodes in a long time(since the last marrathon that was on MTV).

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by K-man » Jul 3rd 2001, 2:05 am

Good question. I totally agree with you. I hate Hallie too. (The character, and the actress, whoever she is/was.) WAY too annoying. I think the show got close to jumping-the-shark when Hallie appeared. I forget exactly what episode it was in. I think had the series gone on they would have hooked it up. She was way too involved in the show by the 19th episode. The writers/producers had her too deeply woven into the plot to just keep her around without an affiar taking place. And...they couldn't just let her go without any commotion.

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by NIGHTJESSI » Jan 13th 2002, 11:19 am

I know I'm resurrecting yet another old discussion, but I couldn't resist.

Given that Graham chickened out the first time but then he had been spending so much time with Hallie, I do think eventually they would have cheated. Hallie was quite annoying, but Graham and she did have that passion shining through in their fights. And Hallie never did expound Brad's third theory, which I always believed was something about the connection between Graham and Hallie. The fact that Graham could never stop talking about her was definitely wearing Patty down. And I do think Hallie always believing in Graham when it came to the restaurant while Patty was hesitant would also contribute to Hallie seeming more appealing to Graham in the long run.

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by Joanna » Jan 13th 2002, 4:32 pm

He would have definitely cheated!!! Most definitely...he didn't do it the first time which makes it more likely this time - and sometimes I wonder who can blame him......Patty never makes ANYTHING easy for him!

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by NIGHTJESSI » Jan 13th 2002, 7:06 pm

Yes, Joanna, I was surprised, especially after Hallie seemed to always be in the picture, how Patty wasn't more careful of how critical or seemingly unsupportive she was being of Graham. And I found it very interesting that even Camille picked up on the vibe between Graham and Hallie and Patty herself seemed a bit afraid of an affair, yet Patty really did nothing to hone in on her marriage to make sure things were OK.

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by Joanna » Jan 14th 2002, 11:16 am

I think she took her family for granted and was so wound-up in herself as the role of wife and mother that she forgot she was an individual person and that perhaps Graham was looking for a friend (not a nagging wife!!) He slowly found this with Hallie as she was so laid back about everything - and he didn't realise. Patty is the type of person, in my humble opinion, to always wear rose-tinted specs to the point where she couldn't really see what was going on right in front of her and the negative affect she was having on Graham and Angela (not forgetting of course - that she is their 'strength' as well - according to Angela's tarrot cards). Angela gets her naivety from her mother I think and if if were not for Camille, Patty would never 'see' anything - almost like Sharon seeing things before Angela does. What brilliant interweaving characters from the MSCL crew!


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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by Ksmile_71 » Jan 15th 2002, 3:30 am

Yes I do believe they would of done something. There was obviously an attraction between the two of them. Even though Hallie was annoying, she filled a void in Graham's life. On many occasions it was quite obvious that Patty had little respect for Graham. It could be seen by not only what she said to him but by her tone of voice. This was demoralising for him and in Hallie he found someone who temporarily adored him and made him feel special. What do you think? E-mail me ksmile_71 @hotmail.com Bye Kevin

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by NIGHTJESSI » Jan 15th 2002, 3:39 am

Joanna, I think you are dead on about Patty with the rose-colored glasses. She seemed to relate many things to how they affected her and didn't stop to think about how her actions would affect Graham, Angela and those around her.

For example, when Angela didn't want to do the fashion show, Patty didn't realize how Angela was concerned about being ugly but instead, Patty obsessed over the lines on her face and how she was growing older.

And when Graham didn't want to take the cooking class, Patty failed to think that perhaps the class might be too slow for Graham and immediately assumed the problem was that it was too much for him. Given how he was always cooking and emotional about food, you would think that she would realize how talented he really was on the stove and that perhaps a community college cooking course wasn't the way to go.

Kevin, I hope you don't mind that I responded to your post here instead of e-mailing you. I just thought it would be great to keep the conversation going on the board. Anywayz, I do think Patty was overly critical of Graham in many things. The wallpapering was definitely a nit-picky area. From the moment he decides he's going to wallpaper the bedroom, she acts like he is going to screw it up. And when he tries to do something nice for Angela and Rayanne and get out of planning to go to a concert when the IRS woman is coming, all Patty can do is berate him. Granted, Graham didn't always make the best decisions, but Patty could have cut him a bit more slack. And she definitely should have done more to make him feel special.

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by Joanna » Jan 15th 2002, 6:37 pm

Totally! It's like sometimes (and only sometimes) she could be nice but most times you just wanted to slap her! - how could she not see the affect she was having on her own relationships - she was just driving people away! It's that thing about being a mother and not a person - in my humble opinion :-)

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by Joanna » Jan 15th 2002, 6:40 pm

Couldn't agree more - it's the way she looked at him too - like a naughty child! I felt soooo sorry for him.....it's the way my mother looks at me. The only thing you can blame him for in being unfaithful is that he chose HER of all people! In fact, I am suprised Rayanne never came on to him!!!!

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by chosephine » Jan 15th 2002, 11:28 pm

I don't want to be controversial or anything, but I honestly don't think that Patty was a horrible person. Was she a nag? Did she sometimes make bad decisions? Yes, but I truly believe that she always had the best intentions. Maybe she wasn't always the most supportive wife, but you have to admit that Graham had his faults too- "It shows your ears more..." (Plus, he would never take her ice skating!) He seemed to be going through some sort of pre-midlife crisis- he wanted to be single again, to be free of responsibilities. Patty, on the other hand, was all about responsibility. She was, in my humble opinion, a classic perfectionist. But this doesn't make her a bad person. I think that in almost every marriage there is going to be one person who is more laid back, whose motto is "Whatever happens, happens", and one person who makes sure that the bills are paid and the kids get their flu shots. It's not that black and white, of course, but you know what I mean. And if Patty was a little unsupportive when it came to the cooking class, I don't think that it was intentional. Maybe it was just that she knew him so well, knew that he had a history of being lazy about following his dreams. As far as Hallie goes, I think Patty was a lot more perceptive than you guys give her credit for. I think she was suspicious right from the beginning, but didn't want to admit it to herself. And I don't think that anything that Patty does makes her seem inhuman. That's the beauty of MSCL: all of the characters are fully realized, three-dimensional people. Noone is all bad, not even Patty.
Sorry for the rant. I just thought that someone should stick up for her!

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by NIGHTJESSI » Jan 16th 2002, 1:43 am

Chosephine, I don't think you're being controversial at all. It's good to disagree sometimes and offer varying viewpoints. And ITA with you that what Patty did was unintentional and just part of her personality. In many ways, she tried to make her marriage work as did Graham, and while they had their ups and downs, I do think they had a healthy relationship. It was the healthiest adult relationship we saw on the show, and it was nice to get that perspective against the backdrop of teenaged relationships and how they're both very different yet very similar at the same time.

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Re: Graham and Hallie

Post by Joanna » Jan 16th 2002, 6:28 pm

Fair enough!! :0) I totally agreed with Patty (for once) when she said to Graham "How could you say that about my hair...do you think I'd want to tango with you after that?"...or something like that ---- but she did, IMHO, look better with longer hair!!!

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