Discussion for Episode 2: Dancing in the Dark

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
User avatar
Jody Barsch*
Lifehead
Posts: 1166
Joined: Jun 30th 2003, 1:30 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Re:

Post by Jody Barsch* » Aug 4th 2008, 8:28 pm

Megs wrote:Graham says, "We haven't really done anything other than talk." The "really" part throws me off. Did they do something else, like kiss?
I think that the "really" could mean they've kissed, it's hard to believe that with all that tie grabbing and secret meetings/phone calls and booking of hotel rooms that they haven't at least kissed once, but, again, it's totally possible. The "really" could refer to his thoughts, intentions, and emotions which all go much further than talking. Also, about the tie-grabbing, admittedly it's sexy, but, now I don't have the DVDs with me to check, but does Graham ever wear a tie in the series?
Megs wrote:That's another thing that bothers me about this scene. Why does he refer to the woman he is "talking to" as a "girl"? ("I met this girl.") For God's sake, he's 40. She has to be in her late 20s or early 30s, right? Isn't that a woman? What does that say about how Graham perceives women?
Yes, the whole Graham-being-a-cheater thing bothers me a bit. :wink:
Graham's use of "girl" may be less of an indicator of his thoughts of women, and more of his current views of Patty -- a "woman" is someone with children, and flannel nightgowns, and who takes pleasure in seeing people eat a well-balanced meal (I can't think of better Patty examples right now), with maybe a little nagging thrown in. As a wife (or 'woman'), Patty needs Graham to be responsible and to realize his potential, whereas, the tie-grabbing 'girl' only needs him to be naturally charming and maybe to whip up some delicious post-coitus snacks; I think Graham thinks that it's easier to please a girl than a woman, and throughout the series he's looking for ways to feel confident and fulfilled. I don't like the cheating side of Graham either, and despite what Winnie has said in interviews and commentaries about future story lines, I really hold true to the idea that Graham would never consummate an affair.
Kickstart The Riches movie!

User avatar
Cami A.
Catalano
Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 21st 2008, 5:36 am
Location: California, US

Re: Discussion for Episode 2: Dancing in the Dark

Post by Cami A. » Aug 5th 2008, 2:48 am

Jody Barsch* wrote:I liked Cami's interpretation, the idea that Angela was happy to be there in the moment to enjoy Jordan's sleeve touching her elbow, but I have always understood that line in a different sense. I hear that line in the context of the unexpected and somewhat aggressive kisses that had just occurred. Having to have just pushed Jordan off, straighten out her skirt, and readjust her jaw after having her mouth forced open wider than at the dentist, Angela considers that things could have gone much worse -- that the scene in the car may have progressed into an attack. Angela recently witnessed outside Lets Bolt how quickly things can escalate, and at this point she still doesn't know Jordan, and therefore we find her reflecting that she's lucky to be sitting there in that quiet moment, hoping for a kiss (or 'anything') after what had just transpired.
Hmm. I never thought of it that way. I guess she could have been scared and thankful that nothing worse happened because at that point Jordan stopped his advances and closed his eyes...so she knew the scariness was over, but take a look at the script:

AngelaVO: We both stopped talking. Part of his sleeve was touching my arm. I don't know if he knew. Then everything started to
seem perfect, for some reason. The feel of his shirt against
my elbow. The fact that I still had an elbow. It was the
perfect moment for him to kiss me...for him to anything me.
(Jordan leans close to her.....reaches over and opens the
passenger door.)

It looks like she was so in awe of him that she forgave his asshole behavior and was just happy to be near him. She says she wants him to kiss her here. That is was the perfect moment. So I stick to my interpretation--she was happy that her elbow was existing, that she was existing so that his sleeve could touch her.
"So, the mouse makes pressure, just by breathing?...I can relate."

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Re: Re:

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Aug 9th 2008, 9:10 pm

Megs wrote:Graham says, "We haven't really done anything other than talk." The "really" part throws me off. Did they do something else, like kiss?
Jody Barsch* wrote:I think that the "really" could mean they've kissed, it's hard to believe that with all that tie grabbing and secret meetings/phone calls and booking of hotel rooms that they haven't at least kissed once, but, again, it's totally possible. The "really" could refer to his thoughts, intentions, and emotions which all go much further than talking. Also, about the tie-grabbing, admittedly it's sexy, but, now I don't have the DVDs with me to check, but does Graham ever wear a tie in the series?
I will have to go check my DVDs, but I think he wears ties to work. I seem to remember him loosening his tie while talking with another character, probably Patty.

I think that the "really" is his way of saying that he hasn't crossed the line yet. He's thinking about it, but the "really" seems to say that he hasn't technically done anything wrong...yet. Of course, this makes me think of High Fidelity and the discussion about "yet" - it implies that you plan to!
Megs wrote:That's another thing that bothers me about this scene. Why does he refer to the woman he is "talking to" as a "girl"? ("I met this girl.") For God's sake, he's 40. She has to be in her late 20s or early 30s, right? Isn't that a woman? What does that say about how Graham perceives women?
Yes, the whole Graham-being-a-cheater thing bothers me a bit. :wink:
Jody Barsch* wrote:Graham's use of "girl" may be less of an indicator of his thoughts of women, and more of his current views of Patty -- a "woman" is someone with children, and flannel nightgowns, and who takes pleasure in seeing people eat a well-balanced meal (I can't think of better Patty examples right now), with maybe a little nagging thrown in. As a wife (or 'woman'), Patty needs Graham to be responsible and to realize his potential, whereas, the tie-grabbing 'girl' only needs him to be naturally charming and maybe to whip up some delicious post-coitus snacks; I think Graham thinks that it's easier to please a girl than a woman, and throughout the series he's looking for ways to feel confident and fulfilled. I don't like the cheating side of Graham either, and despite what Winnie has said in interviews and commentaries about future story lines, I really hold true to the idea that Graham would never consummate an affair.
I think that Graham describes her as "a girl" because he doesn't see her as a serious replacement for Patty. In other words, this is a physical attraction, someone who makes him feel sexy and interesting (as opposed to someone who is waiting for him to take out the garbage and change the kitty litter), but not someone who he is going to build a life with. I think that describing her as a girl somehow makes him feel a little safer, because he is the adult in control who will decide whether to move their "relationship" forward by going beyond just talking. Lastly, I assumed that she was younger than he is, hence his use of the term "girl" rather than "woman." I remember when I was in eighth grade, I didn't get why Janet Jackson kept referring to her fans as "the kids," but now that I'm a little older I get it a lot more. Everyone seems so young!
:wink:
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

User avatar
Cami A.
Catalano
Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 21st 2008, 5:36 am
Location: California, US

Re: Re:

Post by Cami A. » Aug 9th 2008, 11:47 pm

Natasha (candygirl) wrote: I think that Graham describes her as "a girl" because he doesn't see her as a serious replacement for Patty. In other words, this is a physical attraction, someone who makes him feel sexy and interesting (as opposed to someone who is waiting for him to take out the garbage and change the kitty litter), but not someone who he is going to build a life with. I think that describing her as a girl somehow makes him feel a little safer, because he is the adult in control who will decide whether to move their "relationship" forward by going beyond just talking. Lastly, I assumed that she was younger than he is, hence his use of the term "girl" rather than "woman." I remember when I was in eighth grade, I didn't get why Janet Jackson kept referring to her fans as "the kids," but now that I'm a little older I get it a lot more. Everyone seems so young!
:wink:
I completely agree with your analysis of why he called her a girl. She's not a woman--not someone who could be the mother of his children, or take care of his health.

Also, she's most definitely younger than he is.

Here's a quote from Father Figures that shows this:
Angela : [long pause] You don't know everything about my dad. [pause]
Remember the night we couldn't get into Let's Bolt? I saw him
around the corner from our house, and he was talking to this
girl...like in her twenties.
"So, the mouse makes pressure, just by breathing?...I can relate."

User avatar
Natasha (candygirl)
MSCL.com Team
MSCL.com Team
Posts: 5374
Joined: Dec 7th 2001, 3:05 am
Location: California

Re: Discussion for Episode 2: Dancing in the Dark

Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Aug 10th 2008, 6:35 am

And that's telling for a teenager to call someone older "young" since everyone older than they are seems old.
:mrgreen:
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

majesty
Three Rivers Resident
Posts: 52
Joined: Aug 2nd 2008, 5:01 pm

Re: Discussion for Episode 2: Dancing in the Dark

Post by majesty » Apr 4th 2009, 5:55 pm

Jordan mentions that he had a long day that made no sense. When I watched this episode a few weeks ago, I wondered for the first time what had happened to him throughout the day. :lol:

RCBS
Overlooked Sibling
Posts: 48
Joined: Jun 29th 2011, 7:58 am
Location: 100 miles from Three Rivers, on the good side of the River

Re:

Post by RCBS » Aug 12th 2011, 10:57 pm

Baked potato.
Last edited by RCBS on Dec 16th 2016, 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mutajon
Three Rivers Resident
Posts: 68
Joined: May 23rd 2011, 3:06 am

Re: Re:

Post by Mutajon » Aug 13th 2011, 2:59 am

RCBS wrote:I agree with others that she feels bad for taking advantage of Brian. Was cleaning up her way to apologize to him?
I think this is it. She feels bad for taking advantage of Brian and inviting Rickie and Rayann in the first place. Washing their dishes is the least she can do to make up for it (and to make her feel slightly less bad with herself).
"Aaaand dance by the light of the mooooon"

User avatar
Jody Barsch*
Lifehead
Posts: 1166
Joined: Jun 30th 2003, 1:30 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Discussion for Episode 2: Dancing in the Dark

Post by Jody Barsch* » Aug 3rd 2014, 3:15 pm

Jody Barsch* wrote:This line always stands out to me -- I don't get why the writers included this. It does give a good rhythm to Angela's line, but in all my life I have never heard any real person talk about a wedding in this way.
Okay, so last night was the first time I've attended a wedding that touted itself as "a double ring ceremony", couldn't help but think of MSCL and all of you :fadein: Hope you all are well (and having a time :mrgreen: )!!!
Kickstart The Riches movie!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest