No chance for overcharge refunds?

[Jason R]

Woah... Ominous warning from RB investor that they know more about me than I realize. I'm "obsessed" but they know everything going on on MSCL.com and they are not obsessed.

Here is email exchange. Looks like no chance of getting refunds.... :X

From: "Jason Rosenfeld"
Subject: Re: did it happen?
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:59:59 -0800
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


not consumed by this. thankfully, there are other projects and my family which occupy my time. i was attempting to be civil. this was not an "i told you so," but you will remember that i was attacked for telling people that this was going to happen. turns out it was true. and for the record, if ross told you anything about me, you can be pretty sure it was a lie. and i don't want to have anybody by the balls for overcharges. i just want everybody to be made whole. why can't you see this? The attorney general does.

the good news? seems like cmih is rid of that thief.

jason


On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:00:12 -0800 (PST)
"XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 07:38:41 -0800 (PST), "Jason
Rosenfeld" wrote:


Jason, I have been pretty civil to you, knowing much

more about you than you think I do. Ross definitely has
his problems, and yes you have him by the balls on this
double billing, but right now--especially after you
need to express this childish--"I'm right and your
wrong" garbage, you are right up there buddy. I read
the same thing yesterday, and am trying to find out
what is going on. Maybe it will be a good thing for AU
to get someone more competent in and straighten things
out, and Ross can move onto something else, that
hopefully he can handle better. Who knows--not easy
times for all of us. I try to keep a positive attitude
and life is too short to get too worked up over
something. So, in that light, I hope this mess is over
for you soon, so you can move on--you seem VERY
consumed by this-- and wish you the best on your future
projects! Dave

David,
I know that Ross has told you that I am crazy,
obsessed, whatever. It is a common (and cheap) way of attacking somebody when you cannot attack the

facts.

Also, whatever he told you about BMG was obviously bullshit. Did you know that they have sold
over 25K units of MSCL? Also, a company as large as BMG is not going to risk a lawsuit by
badmouthing anybody. You should realize that.

Whether you believe me or not, I really do not give a
flying f***. I warned you, was treated like s**t, and now it looks like I was right and you were
wrong.

Rather than post this on RagingBull, I am going to

have

the courtesy of letting you research it first:
<a

href="http://mail.ragingbull.com/jump/http:// ... 3#15773</a>



"Posted: Yesterday at 7:34 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, I just got back from AU on Ramona and my trip was,
unfortunately, fruitless. I talked to Leslie and she was very nice and seemed
just as frustrated with this whole thing as we all are. She looked up my info and according to my
customer information/order status page, I am credited 79.98 and should be expecting a refund (I am
not holding my breath on that one though). She told me to call (916) 450-0707 and leave a message
because they are handling each case one by one. She could do nothing for me there; it seems that
AU and CMI have parted ways. She mentioned something about being sold to another company and a
bunch of firing. They are managing the website for a bit longer but after that they are done. Her only suggestion was calling the number and leaving
a message BUT that is not very promising as I am sure many of you know since you can't leave a
message if the message box is full. I guess my next stop will be 4135 Northate, Ste. 5. I will let you all know if anything comes of it! "

Since it looks like my predicion of Ross taking AU

from

CMIH has come true (or is coming true), I have no reason to post on RB anymore. I tried to warn
you guys and I failed.

With all of this bullshit aside, I wish you a Happy

New

Year and Merry Christmas. I had hoped that somebody would believe me and prevent this from
happening. What I was saying sounded so crazy, that I don't blame people for not believing

me.
Unfortunately, it was crazy and true.

Wishing you a better 2002,
Jason Rosenfeld

[Lurker1999]

You know what? The bottom line is people are still out money or have not received their DVDs and promised bonus materials from AU. If they had there wouldn't be a new post every day asking about tracking numbers, whether others had received their DVDs or how to get a refund over 60 days from your credit card company.

Ross stole money. None of his pink sheet investors can change that. I hope Ross goes to jail.

[GaryEA]

Jason,

Good old Raging Bull... er, not.

I logged in last night to see what the reaction was (because I'm obsessed and consumed) and it was more of the same I'M A 12 YEAR OLD INVESTOR WHO LIKES TO WRITE IN CAPITALS malarky, mixed in with more "civil" conversation. Of course, there was the bs about how you were going to be sued for hosting AnotherUniverseSucks.org, and how they knew "all about you".

Heaven forbid that there would be a dissenting voice amidst all this.

I think it was sly of you to wish them a "better 2002"; you gave those lunatics a whole 24 days!

-g

[lance]

Jason,

Your post is absolutley amazing. I am stunned by the sheer audacity of these jerks!

Woah... Ominous warning from RB investor that they know more about me than I realize. I'm "obsessed" but they know everything going on on MSCL.com and they are not obsessed.

Here is email exchange. Looks like no chance of getting refunds.... :X

Jason, you are not obsessed. Morally outraged maybe, but not obsessed. You have been MSCLs champion through out this long, twisted ordeal. Please remember this. Mephisto how about a cartoon of St George (Jason) slaying the Dragon (Ross).

From: "Jason Rosenfeld"
Subject: Re: did it happen?
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:59:59 -0800
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


not consumed by this. thankfully, there are other projects and my family which occupy my time. i was attempting to be civil. this was not an "i told you so," but you will remember that i was attacked for telling people that this was going to happen. turns out it was true. and for the record, if ross told you anything about me, you can be pretty sure it was a lie. and i don't want to have anybody by the balls for overcharges. i just want everybody to be made whole. why can't you see this? The attorney general does.

the good news? seems like cmih is rid of that thief.

jason

Jason you have been exceedlingly civil, definately a gentleman. Is it true is Ross gone? If true a song comes to mind, "Ding dong, the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead..."

On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:00:12 -0800 (PST)
"XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 07:38:41 -0800 (PST), "Jason
Rosenfeld" wrote:


Jason, I have been pretty civil to you, knowing much

more about you than you think I do. Ross definitely has
his problems, and yes you have him by the balls on this
double billing, but right now--especially after you
need to express this childish--"I'm right and your
wrong" garbage, you are right up there buddy.

I am right and your wrong garbage? People get ripped off big time and its "I am right and your wrong garbage." Somebody needs a reality check.

I read
the same thing yesterday, and am trying to find out
what is going on. Maybe it will be a good thing for AU
to get someone more competent in and straighten things
out, and Ross can move onto something else, that
hopefully he can handle better. Who knows--not easy
times for all of us. I try to keep a positive attitude
and life is too short to get too worked up over
something. So, in that light, I hope this mess is over
for you soon, so you can move on--you seem VERY
consumed by this-- and wish you the best on your future
projects! Dave

David,
I know that Ross has told you that I am crazy,
obsessed, whatever. It is a common (and cheap) way of attacking somebody when you cannot attack the

facts.

Also, whatever he told you about BMG was obviously bullshit. Did you know that they have sold
over 25K units of MSCL? Also, a company as large as BMG is not going to risk a lawsuit by
badmouthing anybody. You should realize that.

Whether you believe me or not, I really do not give a
flying f***. I warned you, was treated like s**t, and now it looks like I was right and you were
wrong.

Rather than post this on RagingBull, I am going to

have

the courtesy of letting you research it first:
<a

href="http://mail.ragingbull.com/jump/http:// ... 3#15773</a>



"Posted: Yesterday at 7:34 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, I just got back from AU on Ramona and my trip was,
unfortunately, fruitless. I talked to Leslie and she was very nice and seemed
just as frustrated with this whole thing as we all are. She looked up my info and according to my
customer information/order status page, I am credited 79.98 and should be expecting a refund (I am
not holding my breath on that one though). She told me to call (916) 450-0707 and leave a message
because they are handling each case one by one. She could do nothing for me there; it seems that
AU and CMI have parted ways. She mentioned something about being sold to another company and a
bunch of firing. They are managing the website for a bit longer but after that they are done. Her only suggestion was calling the number and leaving
a message BUT that is not very promising as I am sure many of you know since you can't leave a
message if the message box is full. I guess my next stop will be 4135 Northate, Ste. 5. I will let you all know if anything comes of it! "

Since it looks like my predicion of Ross taking AU

from

CMIH has come true (or is coming true), I have no reason to post on RB anymore. I tried to warn
you guys and I failed.

With all of this bullshit aside, I wish you a Happy

New

Year and Merry Christmas. I had hoped that somebody would believe me and prevent this from
happening. What I was saying sounded so crazy, that I don't blame people for not believing

me.
Unfortunately, it was crazy and true.

Wishing you a better 2002,
Jason Rosenfeld

So is Au finished? Is this how AU is going to avoid paying back all the money it owes dump its CEO and declare bankruptcy leaving CMIH to go on like nothing happened? Absolutely amazing!

Anybody else upset about this? Jason do you have anymore news or information about Ross and AU's current circumstances?

Lance Man

[andrewgd]

I don't quite see how this means that refunds are impossible. I guess that if both AnotherUniverse and CMIH go under, then it might be impossible, but if either one stands, I'd assume you can claim that CMIH owned AU, so they owe you the money, or that you did business with AU, so they owe you the money. Just like how Ross had to pay for some of Fandom's outstanding debts when he aquired it, whoever picks up AnotherUniverse (if it is leaving RR's hands) should be required to do the same.

Its still not clear if Ross is still in charge of AU, or CMIH, or both. Which one did he stick by? I can't imagine anyone having the power to fire him, so I'd imagine he grabbed one, sold the other, and ran. But its very unclear as to which one remained with him, and where customers of AU need to direct their future complaints.

[Jason R]

Sometimes, when there is a complex shell game, it is hard to go after money. I know that of the 4 or 5 wires that I did receive, none came from AU. ALL came from different people's accounts. One of the accounts is Leslie Bailko, the person that bitca met with at the headquarters.

In situations like this, the best bet is probably to report AU to the IRS. I had no choice but to do this, because it is hard to report earnings when all of your payments are wires from different people, but you are claiming it is from a company.

We have to ask ourselves an important question. Customers may never see their refunds. In fact, I would bet on this outcome.

If this is the case, do we let AU get away with it, or do we organize to ensure that even if we never see our money again, that Ross pays the price for stealing from us? As much as I would just love to leave this all behind me, I can't do it until we figure this part out. I do know that it is not uncommon for restitution to be required as part of criminal convictions, but is it going to matter to you if you receive a $200 restitution check 5 years from now?.

My advice, let's really hammer the credit card route. Let's start a drive to get everyone to file fraud complaints with their card issuers, and let's let the banks go after AU. The surveys do indicate that some people, at least, are receiving refunds from their cards. If customers make a big enough stink, maybe more people will receive refunds.

This whole situation sucks.

I don't quite see how this means that refunds are impossible. I guess that if both AnotherUniverse and CMIH go under, then it might be impossible, but if either one stands, I'd assume you can claim that CMIH owned AU, so they owe you the money, or that you did business with AU, so they owe you the money. Just like how Ross had to pay for some of Fandom's outstanding debts when he aquired it, whoever picks up AnotherUniverse (if it is leaving RR's hands) should be required to do the same.

Its still not clear if Ross is still in charge of AU, or CMIH, or both. Which one did he stick by? I can't imagine anyone having the power to fire him, so I'd imagine he grabbed one, sold the other, and ran. But its very unclear as to which one remained with him, and where customers of AU need to direct their future complaints.

[zero]

is it going to matter to you if you receive a $200 restitution check 5 years from now?.

Yes. I'm not quitting.

[morg38off]

The above supposed PRIVATE e-mail was posted here without my consent.
I wish no ill-will to anyone here, and am sorry for all you have gone through. Thank You, Dave

[Natasha (candygirl)]

Sometimes, when there is a complex shell game, it is hard to go after money. I know that of the 4 or 5 wires that I did receive, none came from AU. ALL came from different people's accounts. One of the accounts is Leslie Bailko, the person that bitca met with at the headquarters.

Just a little side note: for those of you who don't watch Buffy, the term "bitca" comes from an episode where Willow was spelling out the word "bitch" and Xander responded, "What's a bitca?" so when I originally read Jason's post I thought he was calling Leslie "that bitca." My bad.

Anyway we know how the real bitcas in this situation are. People who think "your" means the same thing as "you're" and accuse our board members of being obsessed but apparently READ our board as a source of information as to what's going on at AU. Yup and we are the ones who are obsessed. Obsessed with getting what we paid for? Obsessed with making sure that AU refunds the money that they stole from their customers? Obsessed with the notion that companies who break the law should be prosecuted? I mean really - if we walked into Ross's store, picked something up, and walked out with it, that would be considered shoplifting and illegal. Why do people not understand that Ross did the same thing?

As for the RBers who claim that they know more about you than you think they know (is this starting to sound like a bad SNL skit yet?), maybe you should feel flattered that they felt you presented enough of a threat that they took the time or money to investigate you (total sarcasm). On the other hand, you might want to keep your blinds closed at night. I wouldn't put it past a group of people who are so immature to TP your house or try to peek in your windows.

[Jason R]

Sorry for posting it, Dave. it illustrates the different view that customers and investors have of the situation. sadly, we are all in the same boat. i didn't think anything you said was critical of the customers.

It just illustrates a point very well. we have all been harmed by the same person and we are all being turned against each other. Investors think we are crazy and we think investors are idiots.

I am sure that many customers back me when I say that we feel badly for anybody who lost money because of this company, including investors.

[So-Called Loon]

This whole thing still sucks bad!

No way we could get a court order have RR hung upside down by his jewels in the town square?

It wouldn't get me my refund or make up for screwing up what (when examining stuff from the first couple months) promised to be a really great project, but i might at least feel some sense of perverse justice.

[Natasha (candygirl)]

At this point, it looks like you may have to content yourself with sticking pins in your Ross voodoo doll.

[JPP13]

BTW, there really is no such thing as a "private email". Once you type a thought, and send it out, it becomes public doamin, absent a recognizable privilege ie - clergy, attorney, etc, and even that is up in the air.

You type it you send it you live with it.

[Jason R]

Someone tells me that they know me better than I think they do, and their email gets posted immediately. Anything as stupid as that becomes public record. I have no choice.

[morg38off]

Gee, I thought a person to person e-mail was personal.-- How about this?
Jason Rosenfeld
"Mr. DVD"


Gender:
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 1268

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:22 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please do not post personal information for ANYONE on this site. I have deleted the post.

Jason
_________________

First you say your sorry, then you say you had to do it. Doesn't seem you are so sorry. I guess you are right again-- I really don't know you as well as I thought.