10/13 Update.

[EmmBee]

How do we know that? Because Jason says so?

You seem to be basing your support of AU on the idea that Jason is the one lying to us.

I believe Jason, and I don't just believe him blindly. I believe him because he has shown a willingness to be here for us, to answer the hard questions, and to keep us informed. He also has corroborating statements from Howard, the AU freelancer who was not paid, and Robert, the guy at G-Whiz who is still not paid for the lunchboxes. After Jason's posts, ROSS even admitted the lunchboxes were not paid for.

Ross, on the other hand, stops by, makes grand promising posts, and never follws through on them. He avoids answering people's hard questions, and makes posts to people that he's "taken care of it" when we find out a week later, their problem is still unresolved.

I think I'm justified in trusting what Jason says, and not trusting Ross.

[phelix]

You say "we now know the above statement is a lie".

How do we know that? Because Jason says so?

Just asking.

Well, for starters Jason has no motive to screw over AU. No matter how this turns out, this will tarnish his reputation since he was so involved in it.

In all the posts Jason has made, I have found only one inconsistancy, where he stated that the bonus disc was being made inhouse by AU. It was clear form that post that his initial statement was made while "blowing off steam". He quickly clarified what the situation really was and admitted he didn't know much about about the disc production process.

(not to get too far offtopic, but I'm still not satisfied with the answers I got from Ross and Jason about the bonus disc. Everyone is playing so fast-n-loose with the terminology that I really have no idea how much AU is doing themselves. "Prepping the video" could be anywhere from 20% of the work to 90%. Of course it's all academic at this point, since I've cancelled my order. )

If you want clearer evidence (and don't feel like trusting Jason), just look at lunchbox problems:

http://www.mscl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8040

G-Wiz is getting paid tomorrow and next week

http://www.mscl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8211

I have been aware of this site for about a week now and I'm pretty blown away by what's been going on. Yes I am the one that is in charge of manufacturing this lunchbox order. I will stick to the facts and let you come to your own conclusions. Our company policy, and this goes for most companies that deal with international markets, is to have 50% deposit to start and the balance of the order paid in full at time of shipment from China. I have pushed this order through to within weeks of possible completion. Keep in mind that I still haven't received the balance of the deposit yet. I beleived that nobody in there right mind could possibly screw over a supplier while advertising the product. I was promised in writing that the "balance would be taken care of tomorrow". That was Sept. 12th. I have been lied to enough. I have no choice in the matter but to put this order on hold.
I can understand that a lot of you dedicated fans are going to be upset at this and I 'm sure a lot of you will think that asking for 100% of the balance at this time is unreasonable. Then again isn't that what AU asked of you?

There, straight from the manufacturer's mouth.

If you want more data, just do a search on my name. In the past week, I've done several posts like this one, trying to summarize the deceptions.

[Natasha (candygirl)]

Ross stated on Oct 10th that BMG was paid for 5,000 units.

You say "we now know the above statement is a lie".

How do we know that? Because Jason says so?

Just asking.

Then to be fair, Ross stated that BMG was paid.

How do we know that? Because Ross says so?

Just asking.

If it's one person's word against another's, how do you EVER decide? You go with past experience and instinct. Ross has proven himself to be a liar in the past, whereas Jason has proven to be the truthful one.

If my life depended upon choosing whether Jason or Ross was the liar (kinda like that show Street Smarts), I would go with Ross as the liar. Jason has proven to be the one consistently telling the truth. Sometimes people were a bit skeptical of his news, but 99.9% of the time it ended up being true (and that .1% is ONLY because of the DVD authoring that Phelix mentioned).

Denial - it ain't just a river.

[GordLacey]

Ross stated on Oct 10th that BMG was paid for 5,000 units.

You say "we now know the above statement is a lie".

How do we know that? Because Jason says so?

Just asking.

Then to be fair, Ross stated that BMG was paid.

How do we know that? Because Ross says so?

Just asking.

I called and spoke to the sales guy at BMG last week and I can confirm that BMG wasn't paid yet. Of course, I'm so closely connected with Jason that it probably doesn't matter, but I figure I'd report it anyway.

Gord

[Cate]

You say "we now know the above statement is a lie".

How do we know that? Because Jason says so?

Just asking.

Well, for starters Jason has no motive to screw over AU. No matter how this turns out, this will tarnish his reputation since he was so involved in it.

I really hate this situation we are all in. I am incredibly upset by all that has transpired here over the last few weeks.

To cover your second sentence first - irt Jason's reputation being tarnished - it will be much less so if it can appear that AU was incompetent, or committing fraud (which Jason is practically outright accusing them of tonight). I imagine people in the industry have short memories. And if enough people file complaints against AU that will also work in Jason's favor I imagine.

As far as your first - Jason has no motive to screw over AU - I am really not so sure about that. It seems that AU just might be Dry Grass Partners competition in the DVD niche market (or whatever to hell it is called... you get the idea).

I found some info online that certainly seems to point in that direction. I can post it here is anyone is interested. In the meantime I will post the urls -

http://savelfn.org/section/archive/julypage2.htm

:http://ourdramaqueen.com/ag/dvdpetitio ... ition4.htm

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum ... genumber=6


I don't like being in the position where I have to come on here and point this stuff out. And I know full well that I don't have to do this! But I am in the same position as a lot of other people here and I want to know what the hell went wrong.

I am not worried about Jason - he has a damned good business model now out of this fiasco ... unfortunately we paid for the lessons he and Gord have learned and will carry on in their future business endeavors.

Ross and AU (CMIH or whoever) will have destroyed reputations. (and yes, I realize that no one gives a damn)

I am so tired of coming here and finding people being pushed into complete panic. (and the posts on this board tonight are completely out of line!) This whole situation sickens me.

[Jason R]

Do you really think we have a good business model now? Do you really think this does not work against everything Gord and I wanted to do? Imagine how good it would be if people would just get their DVDs already. Am I asking for so much of AU to ship a product to customers that prepaid for it?

Understand, I was a marketer. Because of the volume of complaints I started to voluntarily handle customer service issues because we sure knew that AU would not respond to customer emails. I did not even have a contract. And because I had no contract, I also signed no confidentiality agreements. But irregardless, I wanted to make sure that people received responses to emails. The customer service level was an embarassment. I assume that the contract is still being reviewed by AU's attorney (maybe things are just slow there and that is why the DVDs are taking so long), but we never signed anything.

[TrippinShiva]

Maybe when you're at the AU office, you enter a completely new universe ("Another Universe") where nothing gets accomplished, no one recognizes time, and employees spend all the companies earnings on crack.

What do you all think?

Think this will be Ross' next excuse?

I am pretty convinces that when you work at AU you don't do anything except waste other people's hard-earned cash for months on end. If I am incorrect, please prove otherwise.

.....


I am not wondering if canceling my order before the 16th would be wise. After all, if we all cancel our orders on the 16th, is it possible for all of us to get our money back if the money is gone - disappeared long ago - like the drugs....? I have already dealt with my Credit Card Company over the two overcharges AU charged to my account, maybe after this next time they'll ask me to work there. I could use the job.

[so-called customer]

You had a workable business model, and I'm sure if you were dealing with a new set of fans who weren't aware of this fiasco you could get it to work, but there is no way a scheme like this should have gone ahead like it did. As a result of what has happened I'm sure there will be those keeping an eye out for similar cases, and playing an active role in keeping them on the up and up.

The failure of this project began with the full payments up front. Without that single factor just about everything else could have been excused (except double payments). Delays are not uncommon, and even with more vendors opening up, if I was sitting here today knowing I had some exclusive content coming that I hadn't paid for, I might consider hanging in for the duration. This has been a great experiment for you, and I am sure that a lot was learned in the process, but I don't like being a guinea pig.

[Jason R]

Is the precharging really the main issue? Could a token amount be charged as a deposit (2-5 dollars max), if something was mailed out in advance, like a poster for the product, or something?

The original reason for a deposit was to qualify the sales. Then charges started occuring and I was told that it was due to authorizations turning into sales after 30 days. Then, in a candid moment, Mike McCullough admitted that accounting had a mind of its own and just charged everyody while he watched it happen.

Heck, I wouldn't even want to give my credit card for a deposit after this. I think you can declare the model dead.

[so-called customer]

Yes, I believe the principle failing was the full payment up front. I see little wrong with a token down payment, even now (though the integrity of credit card information and email addresses is a concern), as long as it is handled in a professional manner, such as making sure everyone gets a receipt, and that it is implicitely spelled out on that receipt how the deal works, so that if at a later date there is a problem, no one can be left in the lurch.

The big problem with payment up front is it leaves little incentive to complete the project in a timely manner, if at all. Even if a percentage of people did not follow through with payment when completed sets were ready, there should have been enough of an order base to cover expenses, and the overstock could be sold off to make up the profit offset.

There is no reason why this model can't work, but to do so it must maintain its integrity. Exclusives must remain exclusives, or not be marketed that way to begin with. The business side has to be handled with the possible - and likely - scenarios in mind: delays, rights problems, cash flow issues, etc. Customer service also needs to be handled properly.

Even with all the delays, I think people would have been able to forgive many of the problems with the MSCL debacle had they not had their money already invested. There are already other companies who have successfully used the preorder model on niche shows like this, with AnimEigo being a prime example. They always face delays, but if people don't have to pay until it ships, it doesn't matter.

[pgh kenny]

Is the precharging really the main issue? Could a token amount be charged as a deposit (2-5 dollars max), if something was mailed out in advance, like a poster for the product, or something?

A poster, unless it were tiny, seems like it would be too impossible to mail cost-effectively.

Things that might be cool that you could mail....

* Bumper Sticker
* Book Mark
* Trading Cards
* Maybe a one page collectible glossy recap of the show including episode guide, description of characters... I have a two-page printed episode guide to MSCL that I use whenever I want to find a particular scene amongst my 10 tape MSCL collection.

If the item is unique enough, people will feel that they are paying for the item and getting a pre-order slot as a bonus, rather than putting down a deposit.

[EmmBee]

As far as your first - Jason has no motive to screw over AU - I am really not so sure about that. It seems that AU just might be Dry Grass Partners competition in the DVD niche market (or whatever to hell it is called... you get the idea).

AU is not Dry Grass Partners competition. If you correctly understood Jason's model, you would see that Dry Grass NEEDS companies like AU to make the DVDs a reality by funding the project, and taking care of orders, customer service, and distribution. Jason's job, as originially envisioned, was merely to discover DVDs that had a market, and find companies like AU willing to assume the financial risk of having them made, and then act as a go between between them and the rights holders. In this case, BMG. Unless Dry Grass has plans from now on to fund the niche market DVDs themselves, I see no conflict of interest between Dry Grass's role and AU's.

Incidentally, one of AU's key mistakes here was in asking us, the customers, to assume the financial risk for the DVD production. While BMG was within their rights to demand payment up front from AU, AU was not within their rights to demand it from US in turn. The whole reason we needed AU to get the set made was so *they* could assume the financial risk of having it made.

I was very leery of authorizing the full payment to my card when AU demanded it, but at the time, I felt that it was the only way I would get the set, I didn't want to lose my early preorder status, and I didn't want to pay 115 for it later. They had us by the balls, and they took full advantage of it. I blame AU for that, NOT Jason. Charging the customers the full amount up front was not a part of Jason's model, and he didn't even realize AU was incorporating it at first.

I am not worried about Jason - he has a damned good business model now out of this fiasco ... unfortunately we paid for the lessons he and Gord have learned and will carry on in their future business endeavors.

I agree that we all paid the price for this "learning experience." I was aware of that risk when I signed on. I'm still glad I did. Even if I lose my 90 bucks to AU, at least I can be proud that I was one of the people who even made these DVDs possible at ALL, anywhere. Sadly, if AU had managed some things better, this project would have gone rather well for all involved. I don't see how you can insinuate that Jason BENEFITS from AU's failures. If anything, Dry Grass is going down in flames along with AU. Having everything crash and burn this way is not something you want to show to potential investors in your next project.