Let's try this approach

[Sameritech]

I finally received my Deep Discount DVD, MSCL set today. Unfortunately it's overshadowed by the $489.90 in charges still on my credit card thanks to AU. That's right, $489.90. I had planned to give sets away as gifts but canceled after the discounted versions started to hit the etailer's web sites a couple of months ago. Filed a disputed charge with credit card but still waiting for $$ back from them or AU.

Is Ross married, have parents, brothers, sisters, etc. I say we start putting pressure on them to hopefully in turn put pressure on him to refund all the customers that were charged and never received a product. We could call, email, or write letters to his family members in an effort to use their influence to get our money back. A family member's influence is worth a shot since Ross's own integrity is non-existent.

Any one have info on his family? I'll be the first to send them a letter.

Sam

[zero]

thats a lot of $$$ AU owe you - but "info on his family"? Come on - I understand you are pissed, but that's so far out of line it's not even funny as a joke.

In fact [edited as an afterthought] can we have this guys post deleted?

[Sameritech]

It has a hell of a lot better chance of getting results than getting people to sign an internet petition. I'm sure Ross will really give a rats ass when you give him a bunch of net signatures. That will get him moving. A family member on his ass about it, now that has a better chance.

Almost every one of us can say this whole ordeal has had some sort of impact on our own family. How about the people who used their parent's credit card and have had to deal with AU's garbage for 9 months. Or the people who had overdraws on their bank account due to the overcharges. What about the wife or husband that had that conversation/argument about the overcharges or no product for 9 months. Ross made this personal a long time ago...it's about time we return the favor.

Who better to encourage Ross to refund the 400+ people he owes money to than good old Mom, Dad or big Sister? It's been proven in many psychology studies that family members have much more influence over a person than someone they don't know. That's why hostage negotiators almost always try and get a family member to speak to the hostage taker. It makes it more personal.

Got any other better ideas "Zero" other than a internet petition? I'd say the thousands of dollars he owes us is "so far out of line". Unless you have a better idea, why not let us try something else?

[Sameritech]

It's not personal? How many presents could all that money he owes us buy? How many gifts could you buy with the money Ross owes you? Do you really think Ross is so broke that he doesn't have money to buy presents this holiday season? Of course not, he has all our money. That's just plain wrong. Using the money he owes us to buy gifts for his family and friends. I think his family should know that the money he's using was STOLEN from hundreds of us.

Every dollar Ross has in his pocket is about 10 dollars that should be in ours.

[zero]

The petition isn't going to be presented to Ross it's so we have a clear record of whats going on we can use to warn other people off using AU so they don't go through what we did.

Yes it's wrong that AU likely don't have the $ to refund us and will be using TZ money as it comes in. Don't get me wrong, as far as Im concerned much of the billing and refund problems with AU have been a scam.. Cant prove that; only time will tell. Personally I think Ross is a crook and not very competent at it either.

The moral difference between monetary fraud and suggesting targeting innocent members of someone family just to apply pressure is staggering. I think Ross is a crook, but I think you are worse.

That's just my opinion tho' - I'm sure mafia style tactics are normal behaviour where you come from. I've never believed the ends justify the means.

[GaryEA]

Sameritech,

I'm not going to pretend to understand how you feel because everybody's situation is different, but I do appreciate that you are rightfully upset and looking for solutions.

Getting the Rojek(sp?) family involved will not do anything except inflame the situation. It won't get your money back any faster or guarantee a refund. Trying to get personal information, such as contact info, will get anyone in trouble.

Plus, remember that everytime customers get personal with him, he recedes further - there was a time when he posted here, now he doesn't even respond to email. And let's face it; using scrupulous tactics to undo other shady tactics will only end in more trouble.

This forum has all of the information you need (to date) to file claims with not only credit card companies, AU, Drygrass, but law enforcement as well. It's obvious that AU has dug a MASSIVE hole for itself, and with several agencies receiving numerous claims of fraud about them, the company is truly up against the wall.

Ross will most likely not get away with his blatantly suspect actions (of course, that's using rational thought, which tends not to apply when it comes to AU) but that is a different issue than processing refunds. The money needs to be there, and that is up in the air right now. If AU is pinning its hopes on the TZ set to help them financially, they're insane. It just doesn't work that way.

Any way, my point is to try and not to take it too far. Let's not become the villains we revile so much.

Best of luck.

Gary

[Jason R]

I agree with GaryEA here.

We have been steadily asking for refunds for months, and even just doing that is perceived as harassment by Ross. He tells people I harass him. He tells them that I have a vendetta against him and he tells them things like I am a mentally unstable shut-in who is hellbent on destroying him. Tells people that BMG never wants to talk to me again (despite MSCL now being my old division's best selling DVD ever... Go MSCL! ).

He says that since he thinks I wouldn't have a case for suing him that I am using the customers to get revenge. Silly me, I just thought that people deserve their money back and that I was, at least, partly responsible for helping them get out of the mess I got them into.

Yet my posts and emails are monotonously boring. Give people their money back, send out the DVDs, give people their money back, send out the DVDs, give people their money back. . . He can accuse me of being repetitive, but that's about it. If he keeps it up, I will have a cause of action against him, namely defamation.

IMHO, credit card company lawyers, the FTC and FBI will do a hell of a lot better at intimidating this guy into giving people their money back. If not, I'm confident that they'll have a nice orange jumpsuit put aside for him.

Don't do anything foolish that would dilute your claims.

EDITED TO ADD: I think that perfectly normal, perfectly reasonable people can reach their limits, and they can become hellbent on revenge. I think that CrackWhoreCEO/Ross has to understand that the longer he drags this out, the more angry the mob will become. This isn't because of me egging people on, or people being crazy or anything. It's just the way people are.

It certainly isn't helping his cause to stop answering emails or phone calls. (No live phone calls in a month, only their voicemail). I don't even believe that it is the money as much as the simple fact that people do not want to feel that they were victimized. They figure that if they cannot get their money, they can at least be sure that he does not benefit from the theft.

Jason

Sameritech,

I'm not going to pretend to understand how you feel because everybody's situation is different, but I do appreciate that you are rightfully upset and looking for solutions.

Getting the Rojek(sp?) family involved will not do anything except inflame the situation. It won't get your money back any faster or guarantee a refund. Trying to get personal information, such as contact info, will get anyone in trouble.

Plus, remember that everytime customers get personal with him, he recedes further - there was a time when he posted here, now he doesn't even respond to email. And let's face it; using scrupulous tactics to undo other shady tactics will only end in more trouble.

This forum has all of the information you need (to date) to file claims with not only credit card companies, AU, Drygrass, but law enforcement as well. It's obvious that AU has dug a MASSIVE hole for itself, and with several agencies receiving numerous claims of fraud about them, the company is truly up against the wall.

Ross will most likely not get away with his blatantly suspect actions (of course, that's using rational thought, which tends not to apply when it comes to AU) but that is a different issue than processing refunds. The money needs to be there, and that is up in the air right now. If AU is pinning its hopes on the TZ set to help them financially, they're insane. It just doesn't work that way.

Any way, my point is to try and not to take it too far. Let's not become the villains we revile so much.

Best of luck.


Gary

[theandygrant]

Any one have info on his family? I'll be the first to send them a letter.

Sam

I know a little bit about his mother.......























apparently he's a son of a bitch!

[Calhoun07]

Wow, this thread is disturbing. If your threat to contact his family is serious, I doubt Ross will be the only one the FBI will investigate. It's things like this of why people in businesses cannot have pictures of their families displayed on their desks or walls at work, as there is always a threat of somebody who may target those family members to get back at the person working at the company that pissed the stalker off. I'd ease off on any thoughts of doing anything outside of legal boundaries, if I were you.

[Jason R]

Calhoun07, I echo your sentiments and add that only legal means will be used to force AU to provide refunds.

I definitely understand people being pissed off, but don't resort to dirty tactics. For one, it is just not right. Secondly, it will support Ross's assertion that we are all a bunch of lunatics over here. We're hopping mad, but we are reasonable people.

IFCC, FTC, BBB, petitions, postal inspector, banks, credit cards, and agencies in your own countries are more powerful than any number of customers.

Wow, this thread is disturbing. If your threat to contact his family is serious, I doubt Ross will be the only one the FBI will investigate. It's things like this of why people in businesses cannot have pictures of their families displayed on their desks or walls at work, as there is always a threat of somebody who may target those family members to get back at the person working at the company that pissed the stalker off. I'd ease off on any thoughts of doing anything outside of legal boundaries, if I were you.

[Sameritech]

I never said anything about threatening anyone. How exactly is the FBI going to get involved if I send a courteous letter explaining to his family how their Ross stole money from me (and many other people) and asking their assistance in getting my money returned? Don't you think that his parents or other family member might be a little bit concerned and attempt to pursued their son to do the right thing. I really doubt his family knows the true facts of what's going on.

I think you folks assumed I wanted to harass or threaten his family members. Now that's sick and many of you should be embarrassed to insinuate that's what I was attempting to do. NOT TRUE!!! I do however want to ensure his family knows what he has done and how he has cheated people out of thousands of dollars.

I can't believe that you people just assume I'm some kind of stalker or something. FBI getting involved in my affairs for sending a personal heartfelt letter to his mother asking for her assistance. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! I'll tell you what, if I did what Ross has done and my family found out about it, my parents would definitely have a few words to say to me. How would your family members react if you did what Ross has done? I know my family would give me a swift kick in the ass and tell me to go fix the situation.

The fact that some of you think I'm attempting to do anything illegal is downright insulting. Particularly when none of you know a thing about me.

[zero]

Is Ross married, have parents, brothers, sisters, etc. I say we start putting pressure on them

Almost as appalling as your original suggestion is the fact that you feel justified in being offended by our comments.

Since you are backpeddling and saying that rather than suggesting we apply pressure on his family we write them a nice letter - for the record, no matter which you decide you mean - I think both ideas are morally wrong.

From my POV It's important that that anger doesn't become destructive. "gaze not into the abyss..."

[GaryEA]

How exactly is the FBI going to get involved if I send a courteous letter explaining to his family how their Ross stole money from me (and many other people) and asking their assistance in getting my money returned?

Okay, first - you cannot write a courteous letter about being robbed. If you're so angry to the point where you'll write the criminal's family, any letter won't be interpreted as a polite gesture. It'll be either disregarded as total bunk, or as harassment.

Ross' family has zero to do with this. This is a business dispute. As a customer, your job is not to inform the Rojek family of anything. Let the courts and investigations do that. Ross' job is to give you your money back. Leave his family out of it and let the appropriate agencies tackle the matter.


Second - Your idea is to maybe use his family, to "pressure them", to get your money back, or, at the least, inform them so he gets a spanking. You can make it sound nice-nice anyway you want to spin it, but what you're talking about is morally and ethically wrong.

And, there are laws against it. That's where the law enforcement comes into the equation.

I can't believe that you people just assume I'm some kind of stalker or something. FBI getting involved in my affairs for sending a personal heartfelt letter to his mother asking for her assistance. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

How about you give us a break, take a breather, and re-read your first post. You are requesting personal information for your own personal use. You suggested that we put pressure on his family to put pressure on Ross.

The fact that some of you think I'm attempting to do anything illegal is downright insulting. Particularly when none of you know a thing about me.

Consider yourself insulted then, because I offer no apologies. Obviously, I'm in no position to stop you from writing your letter, but you DID tell a public forum about your idea, and we reacted with our honest opinions.

THAT'S what we know about you. We're only responding to what you give us, and we're telling you it's the wrong way to get your money back.

Sorry to dash your hopes.

-g

p.s. I'm honestly concerned that this thread could put MSCL.com into legal trouble, because this is really a touchy topic that the site may not want to host. Just my honest concern.

[fnordboy]

p.s. I'm honestly concerned that this thread could put MSCL.com into legal trouble, because this is really a touchy topic that the site may not want to host. Just my honest concern.

Agreed this should have been deleted when it first appeared. Or at the very least locked with a note saying how MSCL.com does not agree with the post etc.

Sab, Jason, anyone...lock this one down.

[Calhoun07]

I never said anything about threatening anyone. How exactly is the FBI going to get involved if I send a courteous letter explaining to his family how their Ross stole money from me (and many other people) and asking their assistance in getting my money returned? Don't you think that his parents or other family member might be a little bit concerned and attempt to pursued their son to do the right thing. I really doubt his family knows the true facts of what's going on.

I think you folks assumed I wanted to harass or threaten his family members. Now that's sick and many of you should be embarrassed to insinuate that's what I was attempting to do. NOT TRUE!!! I do however want to ensure his family knows what he has done and how he has cheated people out of thousands of dollars.

I can't believe that you people just assume I'm some kind of stalker or something. FBI getting involved in my affairs for sending a personal heartfelt letter to his mother asking for her assistance. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! I'll tell you what, if I did what Ross has done and my family found out about it, my parents would definitely have a few words to say to me. How would your family members react if you did what Ross has done? I know my family would give me a swift kick in the ass and tell me to go fix the situation.

The fact that some of you think I'm attempting to do anything illegal is downright insulting. Particularly when none of you know a thing about me.

I don't care if you type please and thank you and dot every i and cross every t and use the finest stationary known to man and have it delivered with a box of roses. It crosses a line that should not be crossed. And in today's world, you never know what people would think of as harassment.

Put yourself in Ross's shoes. If you were at work and you ticked off somebody or a group of people, would you want that person, or a person from that group, find out where you live, find out the name of your wife and kids, and write them all "nice and courteous" letters about how you wronged them and to get you to act on their behalf? Wouldn't you feel as if that was crossing a line? That that person knew just a little too much, and no matter how nice and courteous their letter was, you have no idea what state of mind they are in, and now you have to consider taking legal action against that person to protect yourself?

All I am saying is just keep it on a professional level. No matter your intentions, it's not right to involve his family in this. And he could sue you for defamation of character if he felt you were trying to make him look bad in front of his family.