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For those who won't be getting the bonus disk....Ah copyright law,
This interesting stuff can put you to sleep. I do believe there is a fair use clause and right of first sale associated with copyrighted work correct? I don't know how many copies of the bonus disc would consitute a violation of copyright law. I am not an attorney. Part of this discussion is at this point hypothetical. To my knowledge as of right now there is no bonus disc to copy or lend or borrow from anyone. A big if remains as to whether AU will deliever on the disc or not. Personally I ordered from Amazon and I am not getting a bonus disc. I hope all of you who are still hanging with AU willl get you disc, we will see. One would hope though that John Ashcroft and Co. would have more important things to do than chase after pink chimney and dangerous gangs of mattress tag rippers. Maybe not. This was my 2 cents. Lance Man
How morally superior. What about those of us who had to dog Rojek for our refunds? What about the fact that he held our money long after we were told refunds would be issued? What about the interest he earned off my hard earned dollars?
No offense, but some people seem so bloody content to pluck their heads right down in the sand as long as they get their DVD's from AU. "I've got mine"- that is sooo Reagan-80s. -Kassandra
"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life."
Jessie, "Once and Again"
It's my understanding that this isn't legal. To respond specifically to lance's arguments in particular, the "first sale" doctrine doesn't cover this. "First sale" means that once you've bought the disc, the copyright owner can't prevent you from selling it on e-bay or giving it to your brother-in-law or using it as a coaster or whatever. It does not mean that purchasing a copy of the disc transfers to you the reproduction and distribution rights of the copyright owner. Although I can't remember the specifics of "fair use" off the top of my head, I'm fairly certain it doesn't cover this situation, for essentially the same reason: when you have a copyright in a work, you're allowed to control the reproduction and distribution of that work; that's how the law is in the US. It's not a "fair use" to usurp that right from the copyright owner. (Maybe one of the lawyers on the board can explain this better--I could look it up, but I probably won't have time to put together a coherent explanation.)
I'm not going to say "Don't do it" 'cause you can do what you want, and it's none of my business anyway. I don't know how likely it is that you'd get sued, but the fact that AU is morally bankrupt isn't a defense to copyright infringement. There's another aspect to this, too: if AU isn't the copyright owner in the footage, what you'd really be doing was screwing someone else (the MTR and whoever owns the copyright in the Bedford Falls footage, for instance--but I have no idea who owns what in this situation). If AU sells the disc and it turns out that they never paid anyone for the footage on it, you'd be helping AU screw the people it's screwing. It's just something to think about if you're going to do it. Well, that and the fact that, based on your first post there, if pirated copies start showing up and someone starts thinking "lawsuit", you're gonna be at the top of the list, which is a crappy position to be in. I mean, I want AU to get screwed. I want them to pay. I think they're a bunch of louse-infested cheating bastards, and I want my money and my vengeance. I'm definitely not defending AU or their interests... I'm just saying, this probably isn't such a swell idea, for reasons that have nothing to do with AU. Edited to add--"If you cancelled your order you paid for nothing" my ass. I've cancelled my order, but I haven't seen hide nor hair of my $99.98, and I know that's the case for a lot of people. AU is slimy, slimy, silmy, and the fact that they have now finally delivered some sets does not in the least redeem them in my mind. They've had that money for nine months. I have indeed paid for a set that I'll never get, and AU reaped the benefits of a substantial amount of interest on that money. I'm going to get that money back and I'm going to make a lot of people miserable until I do, but anyone who thinks that we ought to worry about AU's moral rights is a far better philosopher and man than I. I just want to reiterate that, in posting what I've said above, I don't give two shits about AU's moral rights in the bonus disc. All I'm talking about is a question of law, with perhaps a side of thinking of one's own moral integrity and the wider implications of using this particular method to screw AU. bonus disc-go-roundI mentioned this a while back but thought I'd bring it up again given this topic. If you want to take the copyright questions out of the equation, why not just set up a list of people interested in seeing the bonus disc and then mail an original bonus disc to the first person on the list? That person would watch it, and then send it to the next person on the list, and so on until it was returned to the original owner. There's the obvious risk that the disc may get lost, broken, or stolen by someone along the way, but since this disc is the kind of thing you watch once or twice then file away, just seeing it--and not owning it--would satisfy most people. Just a thought.
I actually had this idea but unfortunately, I don't have a DVD burner, so I was just going to make a transcript of whatever was on the discs, and send it to this site. I don't even think that's illegal. But this site already has transcripts of the episodes anyway.
But copying the discs for the people who got so fucked up the ass by AU that they eventually cancelled, GREAT!!! For those apposed to breaking these copyright laws, keep this in mind... This is AU's "exclusive" product. How long that will last I don't know, but for now we must assume, that one can only get it from AU by spending a rediculous amount(RIPOFF). Meaning, we would be forced by these laws, to deal with a company that has no problems stealing from customers bank accounts. WHY should anyone have to do that? If it were available elsewhere, separately, after going insane with rage, I'd say "don't copy", "buy it there". And since it's only available at AU, they're the only ones missing out on being paid. WHO CARES ABOUT THAT?!?!?! The sun's outside the window trying to show us we're all being stupid. All you have to do is look around.
Like a lot of people have mentioned, this all seems kind of assinine. There's no proof that AU will deliver the disks.
But on the other hand, I've been waiting for the disks to arrive so that I could ask someone to burn me a copy. I don't think it matters so much whether or not it's legal, because people will do it anyway and it is probably in AU's best interest to keep their MSCL fans out of courtrooms. In the meantime, though, I think this conversation should be saved for when people actually get the disks. Once customers get what they deserve from AU (credit, products, refunds, etc...) then maybe we can consider giving them a piece of their own or just sharing the stuff because it's what got us here in the first place. I don't really see a way that it's different from our pirated TV-show tapes that we made each weeks anyway... How many friends did you make copies for using two VCR's? AU can't really have this place shut-down for promoting piracy anyway. I think we're covered by freedom of speech and since we're not admitting to doing anything and they have no proof that we're planning on breaking the law, I'm not sure the authorities would have too much to say in their favor. But I don't know that much about the law anyway. And hey, maybe DVD-RW's will be obsolete by the time AU actually delivers the disk. Wait, that's not funny...
[/quote] Do you ever take a look on Kazaa or Morpheus? You can find every episode of The Sopranos, 24 (season 1), OZ, Six Feet Under, Smallville etc. I am talking about one stupid disk here. I'll tell you what, if you don't feel confortable with the whole "copying" thing, i'll rip the bastard off the disk, covert it to mpg. or Divx and feed it to the vultures on Kazaa for them to distribute. Would that make you happy? In turn, someone who doesn't own a set AT ALL can get it. Sounds great huh? i mean afterall, dowloading your favorite song is ok though, right? I don't think future dvd projects would be in jeopardy because of copying. Do you think Weird Al Yankovich said 'oh people are downloading my stuff and not paying for it. i guess I should stop playing music and pack it in"? I think the logical people on MSCL forums know this bonus disk copying is a good idea. I am not trying to screw anyone over (or at leats who hasn't screw all of us over).
From a legal standpoint, there is no difference, but from a moral standpoint......At the time the show was on, there were no tapes or DVDs available. There was no indication that the show would be released in any format. When they finally did release the show on VHS, they didn't even give us all the episodes. How many people here (or in any other discussion group) actually saw all the episodes when they originally aired. And how many people were converted by borrowing some tapes from a friend who had tapes? Without these additional people in our ranks, whould we have had enough people to even get this thing off the ground? Would MSCL go the way of the dodo bird?? From a cultural standpoint, the loss of MSCL would be a terrible tragedy. There is a difference between burning your friend a copy of the latest Rolling Stones CD, (which he can buy for himself at the local store) and giving him a copy of the bootleg tape of the Grateful Dead that you got from Mike in Denver. I have recordings of things that I would love to have legal copies of, but they are so rare that they are simply no longer available. If they are ever re-released, I will be more than happy to buy them. I love having liner notes and lyrics sheets and pictures. I wish I had "Profit" on tape.  Anyhow, it's late and I'm getting punchy. "The finish line is my happy place."
Which is exactly what the bonus disk would be if it were to actually be released. For some of us, it is impossible to trust AU anymore. It is no longer about not being willing to pay for the bonus', its not willing to have our money stolen. There is a difference. So, to everyone that is unwilling to let AU steal their money, we are now in the position that the bonus disk is impossible to get, and are now looking for our own "greatful dead tape", if it ever actually comes into existance. "Your imagination, like a child, will explode with unrestrained possibilities for adventure."
No, downloading your favorite song is not alright, and no I don't surf pirate sites, and no I don't condone posting it on pirate sites either. Frankly, I don't really give a rip what you do with the disc. What I do care about is placing this forum in a position where it could be open to legal action because of your postings.[/quote]
Um...to answer one of the above posts, yes, I cancelled and YES, I HAVE STILL PAID! I will never see that $100. from AU in my lifetime. The bonus disk is also something that I will believe in only when I see it, so this whole debate just might be a tad premature, imho. I still agree that people sharing the bonus disk when and if it ever arrives is small potatoes, and since so far it is 'exclusively' thru AU, well, f*ck 'em. This idea wouldn't have even come up if they'd had their s**t together and not robbed so many of us.
So, who thinks the bonus disk and lunchbox will get here within a month?? $10 says it'll be March I'm not thrilled by any of this eaither, I originally really wanted all the extras - I have a really cool Simpsons lunchbox and was looking forward to the MSCL one. I weighed it and I would rather get the dvds from someone with whom I've had at least one positive experience. I simply DO NOT trust AU to deliver ANYTHING at this point. Second wave MY ASS! Man, if I hadn't cancelled already, I would after hearing that phrase.Ok, I'm done  "Oh, just say the word and she's a footnote in history. I'll make it look like a painful accident..."
Right now, the bonus disc is ONLY available if you have ordered the full set from AU. You cannot purchase the bonus disc anywhere else, and you can't buy it ALONE anywhere. So that's a little more equivalent to the Greatdul Dead bootleg than the Rolling Stones CDR.
If the bonus disc alone becomes available in stores in the near or distant future, I will buy it in a store. But since (thus far) it is an exclusive and rare thing that not just anybody can buy, I don't believe that the DVDR thing is such a bad idea. And also, in response to the "recieve, watch, pass-it-on" idea, I would be completely faithful in sending it on if I were to recieve it, and I would not keep it for myself. Although I might try to put it on my computer before mailing it to the next person. One more thing: EVERY musician, EVERY band, EVERY musical group has photocopied music, or has in their musical career. EVERY LAST ONE. There's just no way to afford all legal copies all the time. There's no way. You think schools have the money for that? Especially music departments? They have NO money. All money goes to sports. So what are they supposed to do? At least, this was my experience in my high school band, and even here in college a little bit. CDs are copied left and right so that students can use them to practice with, etc. Who can afford to buy a $20 CD? I sure can't.
As I was pointing out, if you are going to adhere to the letter of the law, copyright laws are extremely restrictive. I know of one band director that caclulated how much it would cost to replace all the illegal copies of sheet music with legal ones. It worked out to about $400,000  Can you imaging going in front of the school board and asking them for $400,000 just to clear your concience?? Now that number was calculated about 15 years ago and was just for one school (not the whole district). I do there that there have been a few (like 2 or 3) cases where some universities have been sued for music copyright violations, but that is it. Does anyone recall just a few years ago that Disney was threatening to sue people that were posting their vacation pictures on their web sites? They were completely within their rights to do so. In Entertainment Weekly, I read that the producers of the Sopranos are threatening to sue bars that air their shoe to their customers. When I worked at the cable company, I worked with Cable in the Classroom, a consortium of the cable industry that would provide video that was copyright cleared for use in the classroom. Stuff on CNN and The Weather Channel was cleared for life, but most other things were only cleared for 1 year. At the beginning of every show, they would display the expiration date. If you record a show off the tv that you do not have copyright clearance for to your students, you are breaking the law! If you buy a legal copy from the store (not an educational catalog that has pre-cleared material) and show it to your students, you are breaking the law! You are allowed to set your VCR to record a show that you aren't able to watch live. However, if you do not immediately erase the tape after watching it once, you are breaking the law! From a legal standpoint, there is very little gray area. Thank God, that they do not fully enforce it. "The finish line is my happy place."
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