Amber: Good or bad mother?

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Amber: Good or bad mother?

Post by Joanna » Jan 18th 2002, 8:36 pm

Well I have been watching a few epsidoes of MSCL and am curious to know what you guys think about Rayannes mum? Is she a good mother or a bad one? (NO card is all good or all bad). For instance the time when Rayanne and co had been to Let's Bolt and at Rayannes house when she was dropped off by the police officer 'no one was home'. And the night she nearly ODeed.....Amber left Rayanne in that state to meet her boyfriend Rusty (ok, so she thought Rayne was just drunk and not drugged) - should she have stayed home and looked after her?? I think maybe not but Rayanne, despite being able to fend for herself, is a very vulnerable character and perhaps she needed a little more guidance from her mum? They seem to be good friends - but is that enough?? Who thinks Amber is a nice character? Well I suppose she reacted acceptably the night of the party as she had obviously trusted Rayanne 'just to have a few friends over'...and she did mention that she would need a long talk with Rayanne about her behaviour! Any views on this one? I can't decide. If you had to choose between Patty or Amber as your mum (mom) then who would you choose??


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Re: Amber: Good or bad mother?

Post by RyeBlume » Jan 18th 2002, 9:00 pm

I would choose Patty without question. I don't think that Amber is "all bad," but she is definitely not the best mother. She is obviously great fun to be around, but it is also obvious that Rayanne needs something that Amber just isn't providing her. I think that part of being a mother is being consistent, even if that consistency makes you a pain in the ass at times. I think that Amber loves Rayanne, but I also think that she lacks the consistency and unchecked selflessness that makes Patty the better mother. Not that Patty is selfless... no one is. What I mean is that in Patty's role as a mother to Angela, she tries as hard as she can to do what is truly best for Angela, not for herself. Sometimes her fears of abandonment get in the way, but I think she has proven that she has a lot of maturity in understanding why things have to happen the way they do. Amber has her moments... like when she eats raw cookie dough with Rayanne after the Frozen Embryos disaster... but for the most part she relates to Rayanne as a friend would, not a mother. And Rayanne obviously lacks something in that relationship that Angela doesn't lack in her relationship with Patty.

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Re: Amber: Good or bad mother?

Post by NIGHTJESSI » Jan 19th 2002, 5:41 am

I tend to agree with RyeBlume. Amber is definitely more like a big sister than a mom, while Patty is more like a mother. They both have their faults, though.

Amber definitely seems like she'd be more fun to hang out with, but Patty definitely seems like the more level-headed of the two. And while Patty might have been a bit too pushy in some instances, she was consistent in really being there for Angela when she needed her.

Meanwhile, Amber, though not maliciously, often let Rayanne down, whether it was simply not fulfilling Rayanne's need to have a "normal" home-cooked meal or not being aware of how seriously out of control Rayanne was prior to the night of the OD.

I do think Amber means well, but in the long run, she does tend to think about herself before she thinks of Rayanne. Case in point, Rayanne later mentions how Rusty has pretty much moved into the apartment, which led me to believe that like the night of the OD, Amber was thinking more about her own satisfaction than what might be best for Rayanne.

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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 30th 2002, 9:27 pm

I thought I would bump this topic up because it's an interesting question. I think both Patty and Amber have the right intentions and want their daughters to be happy, but they go about achieving this goal in different ways.

Patty feels Angela drifting away from her, so she tries to find out what little information she can (which comes more from Camille than Angela at times) which only causes Angela to squirm away even more. Patty, a former student activist herself ("What about all those boring stories I had to sit through my whole life about how committed you were in the sixties? About how you believed in things?") has now returned to her roots as a traditional parent who wants her family to eat dinner together and "no going out on school nights." She doesn't do these things to inconvenience Angela, but because she does believe that it's important for them to eat together as a family. She wants to know who Angela's friends are. She has an idealized view of what a family is and she tries to make it reality.

Amber, who was most likely an activist as well, has retained many of her hippie beliefs, rather than conforming to the traditional beliefs that Patty now has. Amber had a child out of wedlock, lives in a small apartment, and has a job with very little upward mobility. Why? Because being married, buying a house, and having a successful career are not important to her ("You have to go where your karma takes you."). She works as an x-ray technician to pay the bills, but "life was created to be lived" which means indulging herself and, consequently, Rayanne. Amber does not set traditional boundaries for Rayanne. She lets Rayanne drink out of her margarita glass, allows her to have a party with the understanding that the kids will be drinking (imagine Patty's reaction to that!), and leaves Rayanne at home unattended on the weekends.

These things bother me a little because teenagers do need boundaries, minimal though they may be (and breaking up the party and yelling at your kid to clean up the mess isn't enough of a boundary, IMHO) but what bothers me more is the way that when Rayanne really needs emotional support, Amber is oblivious. One of those telling moments is when Rayanne tries to tell Amber that she doesn't want to keep the birthday money from her dad, Amber is more concerned with finding a tarot book for Angela and doesn't seem to hear her own daughter's plea for guidance. Another example is when Rayanne is in the hospital. Instead of listening to Patty passing on the doctor's advice ("She needs rest"), Amber wails until Rayanne wakes up to comfort her. Amber should be doing what is best for Rayanne - letting her sleep - but she is too self-involved with her own emotions to do so.

I don't mean to say that Amber is a bad mother. She obviously loves Rayanne, but she is not mature enough. She does know Rayanne very well (when Rayanne complains about wanting a real dinner, Amber knows that something else is wrong) and how to make her feel better (butterfly shrimp and cookie dough ice cream), but those instances are more similar to a friend or sister comforting Rayanne rather than the mother that she needs on other occasions.

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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Dec 4th 2002, 12:09 am

Does anyone else love that when Amber is yelling at Rayanne, "What did I tell you about moderation?" she is dousing herself in perfume?

:D

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Post by SanDeE* » Dec 4th 2002, 3:58 am

The thing that always kind of threw me off was that Amber is the same age as Patty. Or at least they look about the same age - 40. I would have guessed Amber had Rayanne in her teens, let's say maybe 18, making her 33. Maybe I'm just bad at judging how old someone is by the way they look, but I have a few friends in their early 30s and Amber looks WAY older than them. I think that the actress portraying Amber (just can't remember her name...it's late) did an excellent job, I just would have thought Amber would have been younger.

I had a friend in middle school whose mother was a lot like Amber, but a whole lot less responsible. I remember my friend's mother using drugs and having her boyfriends spend the night. My friend could even have boys spend the night...in her room! I was kind of jealous of all her freedom at the time, but when I look back it was actually me who had more. My own mom is a real MOM like Patty, taking responsibility and being in charge of the house. Except my mom isn't so uptight like Patty. I could go out on school nights, for example. I know my friend didn't realize it, but her mom was kind of acting like she was a roommate/friend. Their relationship lacked traditional mother-daughter interaction.

The last point I want to make, bringing this back to Amber's age, was that my friend's mom was just 17 when she became a mother, where as my mom was 32. I think age can make a huge difference in this situation. If Amber is 40, same as Patty, that means they had their daughters at age 25. Can I really believe that, by age 25, Amber hadn't settled down much and grown up to be a mature, completely responsible parent? I don't think that marriage has much to do with it (ie - Patty was married when she had Angela at 25 and Amber was unmarried when she had Rayanne at the same age).

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Post by fnordboy » Dec 4th 2002, 11:57 am

Kristin wrote:The thing that always kind of threw me off was that Amber is the same age as Patty. Or at least they look about the same age - 40. I would have guessed Amber had Rayanne in her teens, let's say maybe 18, making her 33. Maybe I'm just bad at judging how old someone is by the way they look, but I have a few friends in their early 30s and Amber looks WAY older than them. I think that the actress portraying Amber (just can't remember her name...it's late) did an excellent job, I just would have thought Amber would have been younger.
I always just assumed that they were both around the same age. But you are right it would fit the model if Amber had Rayanne at an early age. So that is possible too. The thing you have to remember, if she did in fact have her at an early age, is that if someone has lived a hard life...they will show it.

Judging by Rayanne's addictive personality I would say Amber was (is?)definitely addicted to some substances, be it alcohol or drugs, atleast at one point in her life. She has probably seen a ton of grief in her time, due to the men she chooses and her homelife growing up. That creates some wear and tear on a person and shows.

Now if they are the same age, I think it would be safe to say that Amber either just never fully "grew up" or just made a decision that she did not want to raise her child in the typical sense (quite possibly for her own personal gain, ie the freedom it gives her with goign out etc.). But i would say that Rayanne's home life is not much different than Amber's was growing up.... but probably a lot happier.

Patty grew up in a middle class household from what i can tell, and had the typical suburban parenting the same as Angela is having. She is naturally going to slip into the mothering role with ease.

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Post by Megs » Dec 4th 2002, 2:14 pm

Where does it say that Amber wasn't married?
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Dec 4th 2002, 2:40 pm

Ummm, nowhere. :wink:

I just assumed that she wasn't married due to the fact that (1) Rayanne and Amber have different last names. I suppose it's possible that the reason is Amber remarried after Rayanne's dad left, but I was assuming that "Vallone" is her last name while "Graf" is Rayanne and her dad's last name. Even if Amber married and divorced Rayanne's father, most kids I know with divorced parents ended up keeping their father's last name just for the sake of simplicity/laziness/legality. If Amber and Rayanne's dad did divorce, I guess the other possibility is that Rayanne did keep her dad's last name and Amber either reverted back to her maiden name or never took his last name to begin with.

(2) Rayanne seems very reluctant to accept her dad's birthday gift (and ends up going on a bender as a result) - lots of bitter feelings. I know lots of kids with divorced parents have strained relationships with the non-custodial parents, but it seems like Rayanne isn't mad at her father. I think her reluctance to accept the money is because taking that much money from someone you barely know is kind of weird AND by accepting it, Rayanne would be accepting that $270 replaces his presence in her life.

Another factor that influenced my decision is Amber's hippie free spirit attitude about things. Based on her statement about appetizers and desserts, it seems like Amber believes in finding the best and not worrying about the rest. Translated into hippie relationships: love is all you need in a relationship, marriage is just a piece of paper, etc.

Does any of this that mean that Amber wasn't married? Not at all, just my interpretation.

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Post by Megs » Dec 4th 2002, 2:51 pm

I didn't mean for it to come out rude. Someone was in my office. Shhhh! :wink: I'm working, really!

I just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything. I couldn't remember if they outright said that Amber was a unmarried mother. All I remember is when Rayanne said in Halloween that her dad never came home. (Does anyone else think that story she told Brian about being scared of the dark was true, and that she was just covering up when she said it wasn't? I always thought that. I don't know why. It would add a lot of dimention and depth to her character.)

Edited to add: Doh! I know she is a single mother. I meant unmarried mother.
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Post by fnordboy » Dec 4th 2002, 3:40 pm

Megs wrote:I didn't mean for it to come out rude. Someone was in my office. Shhhh! :wink: I'm working, really!
Uh huh... as hard and as much as the rest of us.

:lol:

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Post by glitter_punk » Dec 4th 2002, 6:24 pm

It's obvious that rayanne didn't grow up with a father, because she said, "Angela's the product of a two-parent household" and I took that to mean that she grew up without a father, and I just took it to mean that Amber was never married to rayanne's father.
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Dec 4th 2002, 8:20 pm

Megs wrote:All I remember is when Rayanne said in Halloween that her dad never came home.
Now do you think she meant that her dad never came home at night after work or that he never came home at all (meaning he left and didn't come back)?
(Does anyone else think that story she told Brian about being scared of the dark was true, and that she was just covering up when she said it wasn't? I always thought that. I don't know why. It would add a lot of dimention and depth to her character.)
I'm torn. On one hand, I could see Rayanne telling Brian the truth and then pretending it was a joke because she is given to telling the truth in an exaggerated fashion when it suits her ("we had a time") AND it's possible that she was sharing an emotional thing with Brian and then regretted it so she passed it off as a lie. We have seen her use the truth to elicit a response (going to the counselor and saying that the gun incident scared her in hopes of getting excused from school) so perhaps she is using the truth (her story) to keep Brian from leaving her alone in the dark.

On the other hand, I could see Rayanne making the whole thing up just to mess with Brian. She has been shown to be inconsistent in facts on occasion (she says she collects fake IDs but she needs Tino to get her into Let's Bolt, which I know could be interpreted differently but let's just go with that for the sake of argument). I'm not saying that Rayanne is a pathological liar, but she says and does things to get a reaction - to make things happen or just for fun - so maybe she did make up the story.

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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Dec 4th 2002, 8:23 pm

Megs wrote:I didn't mean for it to come out rude.
I didn't think you were being rude at all! You brought up a good point - we don't know anything about Amber's relationship with Rayanne's father, past or present, so I racked my brain trying to remember if there were any indications of their marital status and came up with nothing solid.

:D

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Post by Nostradamus » Dec 5th 2002, 12:52 am

If you look closely, you can see a naughty smile flash across Rayanne's face just before she relates her horror story to Brian. I don't think she would've smiled if she was remembering an actual event. Still, it is possible that her convincing performance was the result of a general feeling of childhood abandonment, with her father gone and Amber staying out late partying, leaving little Rayanne all alone in a big, dark house. :(

On the hand, Rayanne may have been telling the truth about not knowing the cause of her nyctophobia. Despite the popularity of early psychoanalytic theories, not all neuroses can be traced back to a specific trauma.
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