I received the DVD box set...after cancelling my order!

elwood · Post by **elwood** » Dec 17th 2002, 3:10 am

Here's my AnotherUniverse.com story. I was without a credit card when I wanted to order the My So-Called Life DVD box set, so I mailed them a letter stating my order and a $20.00 check for the deposit, asking for email confirmation of my order. They promptly cashed the check, and I waited for my order confirmation.

After a couple weeks, I called them and asked for confirmation and an order number. They said they couldn't find anything, and would look into it. I quickly realized that their operation was shoddy at best, and cancelled my order and requested a refund. After TWO MONTHS of letters, phone calls, faxes, and emails demanding a refund, they basically told me that without a cancelled check, I had no proof that they had my money. Mike McCullough of AnotherUniverse.com basically told me to go f*ck myself.

My bank, like many, has stopped returning cancelled checks to its customers. But luckily they keep them for awhile at least. They gave me the cancelled check, and I sent a copy of it to AnotherUniverse.com, and they sent me the money. They didn't even send a check, but a 20-dollar bill instead.

HERE'S THE KICKER!

In late November, what arrived upon my doorstep? Well, the My So-Called Life DVD box set and a bill for $119.99! I emailed them, thanking them for their gift to me, which I would not pay for, nor would I pay to send it back. Well, this time they took all of 30 minutes to get back to me, telling me the UPS guy would be stopping by my place to pick up the box set, with nothing more needed from me. Apparently, it wasn't a gift then.

I hope they enjoy all this bad publicity, as it is so richly deserved.

andrewgd · Post by **andrewgd** » Dec 17th 2002, 2:21 pm

I hope you tell the UPS guy that there was a mistake, and you never recieved the box.

You canceled your order. Then they sent you the set unsolicited, and asked you for money. It is illegal to do that (I beleive). And in any case, if a company sends you unsolicited material, you have every right to keep it.

Tell the UPS guy that you never recieved a set from AU. If he persists...tell him to tell AU that "the check is on the way". Since AU serves up so many lies, I'd feel perfectly fine lying back to them in return

.

elwood · Post by **elwood** » Dec 17th 2002, 3:28 pm

I didn't want to get into another dispute with Another Universe, and actually I didn't care if I got the DVD set anymore. It was good for a laugh though.

so-called customer · Post by **so-called customer** » Dec 17th 2002, 4:06 pm

You are under no obligatin to return or pay for anything you did not order. I'd keep the set and tell AU where they can stick their order process.

elwood · Post by **elwood** » Dec 17th 2002, 4:44 pm

I have long since sent the DVD set back. Luckily, I just got my answer to this question from the Clark Howard radio show.

If you receive unsolicited merchandise through the U.S. Postal Service, it is yours to keep (http://www.usps.com/websites/depart/inspect/merch.htm)

HOWEVER, this does not apply to merchandise received via UPS or FedEx. You must make a "good faith effort" to return such merchandise, whether you or the company pays for the return shipping.

phelix · Post by **phelix** » Dec 17th 2002, 8:26 pm

elwood wrote: HOWEVER, this does not apply to merchandise received via UPS or FedEx. You must make a "good faith effort" to return such merchandise, whether you or the company pays for the return shipping.

Do you know this for a fact? Can you quote a source?

I suspect there are similar consumer protection laws that cover all couriers. After all, why should I be obligated to spend one dime to fix their mistake, and time is money.

The only thing I would do is leave it outside clearly marked for the UPS guy to pickup. If it gets stolen, it's not my problem.

elwood · Post by **elwood** » Dec 19th 2002, 4:07 pm

The law as I understand it does not cover any private couriers, only the U.S. Postal Service. Because I want to know for myself, I will see what I can find out. The policies I listed before we those stated by Clark Howard on his daily radio show about all things for the consumer. He knows his stuff. I will see what more I can find out by posting on his message boards.

I know you might feel like it shouldn't be your responsibility to deal with unsolicited goods that arrive by courier, but that may be just the case. Lots of laws don't make sense.

elwood · Post by **elwood** » Dec 21st 2002, 1:47 pm

I have conflicting information on this subject. This PDF from the Federal Trade Commission is vague in its language, mentioning "receiving" unsolicited merchandise which could mean receipt by any courier. But then it lists the U.S. Postal Inspector as one place to contact for more information, which would only be the case if it came through the U.S. Mail. I still will try to see what more I can find out. I am on a mission now.

Federal Trade Commission - Unordered Merchandise

If you want some comedy, check out the discussion I got into over at the Clark Howard Radio Show message boards. Try to ask a question about unsolicited merchandise, and you get branded a thief. I see some people got the gift of moral superiority a little early this Christmas. Haha

elwood · Post by **elwood** » Dec 23rd 2002, 6:19 pm

I called the Federal Trade Commission today. The lady stated unequivocally that when you receive merchandise that you did not order, no matter what carrier delivers it, it is yours to keep. She added that you may want to write the company to let them know you received their package, you did not order it, and should you choose to keep it that you will not return it or pay for it.

However, she was unable to provide guidance as to the situation I was in, namely receiving DVDs long after I had cancelled the order. She did say that it would be wise to send the DVDs back, especially when the company has your credit card number (and she doesn't even know AnotherUniverse.com's story). She said it may be legal to keep the items, but she was not sure.

In my own situation, I paid my deposit by check, which was then refunded. So AnotherUniverse.com never had a credit card number from me. However, even if I had wanted to try and keep the DVDs without paying, I had long since deleted all my earlier correspondence with AnotherUniverse.com, so I had no proof of cancellation of order to fall back on.

So my advice is that if they mistakenly shipped you the DVDs after you cancelled your order, call them and demand that they send the UPS guy back to your house to pick them up.

Merry Christmas everyone!

so-called customer · Post by **so-called customer** » Dec 23rd 2002, 8:36 pm

Why send them back? They are yours to keep. Trying to make you pay for them after the fact is illegal. If they refunded your payment, that is proof enough of cancellation, after all, why would they give you your money back if you still had an open order?

elwood · Post by **elwood** » Dec 23rd 2002, 9:08 pm

Trying to make you pay for them after the fact is illegal. That is true. They also could not force me to pay for the return shipping. But since I had ordered the DVDs, this might not fall under the "unordered merchandise" statutes.

They did refund my money, in the form of a 20-dollar bill. And since I deleted all my emails from March-June 2002, I have no proof that they cancelled my order or that I received my refund. And since it was a 20-dollar bill and not a check, they have no proof of the order being cancelled. And even if they had written me a check and I cashed it, what is to keep them from leaving the order open? Hell, that must be what happened, since I got the DVDs shipped to me. If I had tried to keep the DVDs, they could have simply pulled my ordering letter and said that I had ordered the DVDs and must then pay for them if I wanted to keep them. In hindsight, I should have returned the money to them in the form of a money order and demanded that they send me a refund in the form of a money order or check, a copy of which could have been kept for my records.

My advice is still, should anyone receive the DVDs on a cancelled order, to demand AnotherUniverse pay for return shipping. Short of advice from a lawyer to the contrary, keeping the DVDs without paying might not be the best legal advice. If there is a lawyer who frequents this message board, I would love to hear their opinion.

GaryEA · Post by **GaryEA** » Dec 23rd 2002, 9:30 pm

Elwood, they sent you cash as a refund? Was that because you paid by check?

I'm sorry for asking but that sounded downright bizarre to me. Additionally, they took the risk of losing your refund in the mail, a move that borders on irresponsible.

Do other companies do this as policy? Maybe I'm just not aware that legal tender is mailed in such situations (I would have expected a check from them - something replacable if lost).

Gary

phelix · Post by **phelix** » Dec 23rd 2002, 10:26 pm

GaryEA wrote: Do other companies do this as policy? Maybe I'm just not aware that legal tender is mailed in such situations (I would have expected a check from them - something replacable if lost).

Legitimate business never mail cash, because cash is an untracable transaction. Neither side can ever prove that money was transferred. Business need a record of all transactions for tax and stock purposes.

It's obvious they did this because they didn't want there to be a record of it (of the refund itself or of the fact that they had $20 to refund), but why? It makes no sense. They probably are hiding assets from a court or taxman. But then why take the risk by refunding the $20 in the first place?

GaryEA · Post by **GaryEA** » Dec 24th 2002, 12:29 am

Legitimate business never mail cash, because cash is an untracable transaction.

That's what I thought, and was the reason why it struck me as so odd. I thought online refunds of a check would imvolve another check, not cash, like you'd get if you were refunded in a store.

The fact that they made the refund untracable makes me wonder if they just grabbed a twenty and mailed it or if AU had another motive...

Oh forget it. At this point, I'm trying to stay out of the speculation business as much as possible, mostly because my breain gets away from as it starves from the lack of fact.

Gary

Jason R · Post by **Jason R** » Dec 24th 2002, 1:16 am

A few things.

If they are sending cash it makes it easier to lie and say "well, we sent cash to everyone. They must be lying that they didn't receive it."

Or, they are hiding the cash from the IRS, and they are only paying people who threatened to file complaints with AG, FBI, etc.

Major mass mail coming from me in the next 48 hours. Asking all customers without refunds to report with AG and FBI/IFCC.

Many have, but I am going to tell people that it looks pretty unlikely that they will see refunds, and it is time to suffocate Ross in complaints.

The only thing that will stop me is if Ross emails or PMs one of the moderators on this board and convinces them to stop me.

Jason

Forum

I received the DVD box set...after cancelling my order!

I received the DVD box set...after cancelling my order!

Oh well.

Already sent back.

Re: Already sent back.

Will find out what I can.

I have some clarification...

FTC advises send back DVDs cancelled on a cancelled order.

Might not be the best advice.

Who is online