Anyone Alive?

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
ataris
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Re: Unraveling the mystery

Post by ataris » Jan 10th 2000, 12:06 am

See that's the thing this is just high school and when looking at it like that of course you go for Jordan because in high school you really aren't looking for a life long partner you are looking for the guy who knows how to "impress" a girl. Now when I say impress I mean a guy who isn't scared to talk to you, isn't afraid to ask you if you'll have sex with him, the guy who plays guitar and is in a band, the guy who is mysterious, the guy who is so cute. Yeah and so maybe the mystery about him gets replaced by something but it's not like you are looking for a long term relationship in high school. You are looking for a guy to make out in the boiler room with, not a guy who when you ask him to dance says no because he's mad cause he miss read what you asked him. All I'm saying is the Brian had some learning to do when it comes to girls, and Jordan in actual learning at school. But girls don't care as much about actual learning school wise as they do how you'll treat them. You know in my humble opinion. None of this is making since so I'm gonna shut up now.

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grim4746
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Brian vs. Jordan

Post by grim4746 » Jan 10th 2000, 1:34 am

As usual I agree with Jack's comments but at the moment I'm feeling optimistic about the possibility of something between Angela and Brian. It could happen at least in fiction. One of the details I am grasping at to let myself believe what I want to comes from Camille. When she and Patty were talking about Graham and Hallie, Camille asked if they fight a lot. She said that if you can get that angry with someone there's passion there. I never saw Angela get as angry with Jordan as she often did with Brian. It's not much of a point but it's enough (at least for the moment which is admittedly filled with unfounded optimism) to support my hope that there was passion and that Angela might have chosen Brian.

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Re: Brian vs. Jordan

Post by Ken » Jan 10th 2000, 10:03 am

I agree with what grim said(sorry about using grim as the name but don't know what your name is) and that was also one of the things that kept alive my hope for Brian and Angela. But I also noticed that it was Jordan who tried more to make amends with his relationship with Angela whereas Brian basically watched from the sideline. Actually, I am pretty new here and I have only seen one episode although I have read all transcripts. So if I am wrong on some of the info, I apologise. Back to what I said, the person who tries harder usually get what they want, so from that point of view, things aren't as good for Brian. Maybe someone could summarise all the points for and against for Brian and Jordan and it would probably be clearer, I don't know.

Also just like to say this conversation is really great and we should have more of this! I just saw the pilot, just wondering if anyone know why Brian didn't say anything to Angela after they saw Graham talking to the woman, also perhaps less importantly, why did Graham look like he's surprised or something when Patty said that she feels Angela is like a stranger, after the hair dyed.

OK, enough of my babble, keep this going guys!!! Maybe start some new discussion topics as well.

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Re: Brian vs. Jordan

Post by mia » Jan 10th 2000, 10:25 am

Personally, I don't think it's ever gonna hapen between Angela and Brian. I don't think she'd break his heart, necessarily (at least not intentionally), but he's been the boy next door forever. Personally I think he's too far in the "friend zone" for Angela to have any serious romantic thoughts about him.

I also don't think it's quite acurate to aquaint the Angela/Brian situation with the Patty/Graham situation. In high school, Patty was the popular girl and Graham was the geek. Angela and Brian are more or less at the same position on the social totem pole, with Brian being the "brain" and Angela being the "weird girl." Also Patty and Graham didn't know each other in hgih school, they met later. Brian and Angela have known each other since they were, like, five. And when you've known a guy that long, and only thought of him as a "friend" (I put that in quotes because at times it seems like Angela just sort of endures Brian), chances are that unless you look up one day and find out the guy's turned into a total stud, nothings gonna change your perception of him being just a friend. Shallow but true, especially in high school.

Then there's the fact that the idea of Brian and Angela together gives me the creeps. So all of this is highly subjective. Take it ot leave it.

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Re: Brian vs. Jordan

Post by Jack » Jan 10th 2000, 2:35 pm

Mia, why does Angela and Brian together give you the creeps?

Jack

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Re: Brian vs. Jordan

Post by mia » Jan 10th 2000, 3:28 pm

I dunno, I guess in my mind it would be like sleeping with my brother....

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Re: Brian

Post by emmie » Jan 10th 2000, 4:30 pm

Okay, I finally have time to voice my thoughts. as to the poll, as some other girls have said, i would have picked Jordan in high school. this thread made me start thinking of all of my high school crushes. and to be honest, I wouldn't want to be with any of them now. I recently had a Brian though, and I didn't like that either. as sweet as he was, there just wasn't any chemistry there. the situation became so uncomfortable that we couldn't even be friends.

I agree with Mia about Brian being all wrong for Angela. he's the awkward next-door neighbor. and everyone please forgive me, but I never much liked Brian anyway, so perhaps I'm biased. he had his moments, but apparently they weren't enough for me. from Angela's perspective, he was simply annoying. and since I most identified with her, I saw him as annoying also. he was always telling her she was wrong and criticizing everything she did. I'm sure some of that was fueled by jealously, but I know I wouldn't have liked it in her shoes. the one thing I do like about Brian is how well he knew Angela. if only he had used that to be more of a friend instead of a nagger, their relationship could have progressed more. I think this could have eventually have happened since Angela realized his feelings. perhaps she would have seen him in a new light and been more considerate. and in turn, maybe Brian would have started listening more instead of preaching.

I agree that neither boy is "the one" for Angela. I like the idea of her falling in love with someone more like Graham. she is the type who needs someone who is opened minded yet more balanced than Brian and Jordan. I think that if she and Jordan could have gotten past the sex issue,however, they could have had a fun time together for a little while. isn't that what being young is supposed to be about? having fun? but come to think of it, I don't remember seeing Jordan ever having fun or smiling, except when they were making out.

whew, I got it all out!! of course, I basically said what everyone else has said so far. oh well.

emmie

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Re: Brian

Post by Jack » Jan 11th 2000, 2:48 am

Man oh man, Brian's getting a good beatin' here. It looks to me like Jordan's winning the poll,
with most people agreeing that neither of them would have been Angela's choice after high school,
which of course is pretty normal. The interesting thing though, is several have commented that
a Graham-like person would be a good choice. And that's probably true, but nobody's brought up
that Graham most likely wasn't like his current self in high school. Nobody knows what he was
like, but we do know this about the MSCL universe: Patty was the Prom Queen (but if we weren't
told this, there'd be no way we could extrapolate this from her present life), Graham "couldn't
get a girl to look at him" (but at 40, besides his Prom Queen wife, he's had Hallie as well as
some unknown woman "in her twenties" attracted to him), and the Tino-like elusive, Tony Poole
didn't come over that night on the last episode because he had just taken a nasal decongestant
and was afraid to drive (yet, he "drove so fast, Patty's parents wanted him dead", and the writers
make more than a passing connection between Jordan and Tony). The point I'm getting at is that
none of these people are going to be the same person at 25, 35, or 40 as they are at 15 (or 17 in
Jordan's case).

I joke that I was like Brian when I was in high school, but although I shared similar qualities, I was
neither as brainy nor clueless as he. Nor was I as friendless as he apparently seems to be, I moved
easily between the in-crowd and the geeks, and freaks, and whatever. Hmmm...now that I think
about it, as far as we know from the show, he basically has no friends at all (that we see or hear
about anyway, but I guess that could be said about all the characters except Jordan, who we clearly
see with his friends, Shane, and I believe, Joey.)

In less than 10 weeks, I will be Graham's age (no, I'm not going through a mid-life crisis and I
can "focus just fine when I want to" thankyouverymuch! But please, somebody shoot me if I
start wallpapering my home). As I look back on my own life, I can see and understand the
somewhat Brianesque faze I went through (and those who knew me during that time will always
see me that way, so Brian is probably doomed in Angela's eyes, he is too much like a brother,
unless he disappears for like ten or more years and comes back completely changed). I can
see my Grahamesque faze and would somewhat expect that to be my future. What I never
saw, and would never have seen coming, is the Jordanesque faze I went through between my
mid-twenties and my early thirties. No, I was never that cool, nor that vacuous, but the business
I'm in brought me in contact with lots and lots of people, and at that time in my life I related to
people in a very similar way as Jordan. And I'll just leave it at that.

So when we all say, so-and-so would be better for Angela then whats-his-name, or a person like
you-know-who would be perfect for her, none of us really have any idea what they're going to
become when they reach the age where they're relationships are going to be so much more
meaningful anyway. And we already know they've changed quite a bit from kidhood to their
teens. So...well...that's it. Now what? I don't even know if I made a point, or had one beyond
the obvious. Apparently when left unchecked, I just keep writing (real conversation with me
is similar...oh...I drive my friends nuts). Hmmm...senility...already. Alrighty then, I think I'll
get off my soapbox and do...something...else. Later.

Know-It-All
Jack

ataris
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Re: Brian

Post by ataris » Jan 11th 2000, 4:34 am

A lot of people are saying that they would like to end up with a guy like Graham or that a guy like Graham is good for Angela. But look at how much he was with or almost with other girls then Patty. So he never really officially did anything but talk, but I still wouldn't want to be with a guy like that. And I think that comes from he wasn't attractive in high school and now he is, so he wants to take advantage of that but he's married. Where as Patty was attractive when she was in high school and now she says she is becoming unattractive, which is stated in the Zit. I guess it's his turn to live out women wanting him but he's too late, as I said before he's married. Those seem like the guys who get divorced around 40 and marry a girl who is a lot younger then him. Now I'm not at all saying that everyone is like that, or that everyone does that but it seems like that happens a lot.

Now to the comment about how you thought that Brian seemed annoying and that you never really liked him, I feel the same way as you on that. And I identify with Angela too, but that's probably because it's told from her point of view. He always seems to be there to try to stop Angela or tell her how she is doing something wrong. The first example that comes to my head in "Why Jordan Can't Read" in the beginning when they are in the museum and Angela is going to follow Jordan to look at a painting Brian says "Hey she said to stay with the group" And I know it's probably out of jealously but still I just hate when he says that too her, I want to tell him not to. I can't stand to watch Life of Brian for that reason, he just does some really stupid stuff, that I can't bare to watch. And maybe I just look at it the wrong way, or have some weird view on it. Well I'm gonna go - Steph

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one last comment from me

Post by oldguy » Jan 11th 2000, 4:38 am

I agree with what you said Jack, although I feel like I haven't so much changed
over the years as that people's perception of me has changed. It's like the guy,
even while in high school, who suddenly starts hanging around with a new friend
who's considered a little cooler --- and all of a sudden people start thinking he's
cool. And really he's no different at all ---- he's just seen in a new light by a lot
of people. Does that sound familiar to anybody? I always felt in high school
like nobody really knew me, although certainly people had their own ideas. So
my only thought is --- people are usually a lot more complicated and interesting
than our impressions --- but the tendency sometimes is to avoid somebody just
because of a first or second impression (which is often completely wrong). One
of the things I like about MSCL was the way characters were shown in all their
complexity (like Brian: at times annoying and a jerk, and at other times passionate,
thoughtful, even caring). The strength of the show above all else was showing the
depth of the characters.

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worldsapart
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Re: Brian

Post by worldsapart » Jan 11th 2000, 5:03 am

Wow Jack. I'm very amazed that my statement made such an impact on you. =) I have to
say, even after a good night's sleep, that in a world where girls would actually be
attracted to guys for who they are and how the guy would treat them etc, rather than how
they look, then Brian would be Angela's first choice. But then, we don't live in that world.
And if I were in Angela's shoes and saw what Angela saw, I would probably choose
Jordan simply because my mind wouldn't permit me to make any other choice. But if it
were me, watching the show, seeing everything- even what Brian sees and feels- then I
would choose Brian, hands down, no question about it.

In my own personal experience...I have been on one date...yes, count that with me- one. It
was with a guy that I had a small crush on (a while before the date), but never really
considered it because he was gorgeous and every girl in my youth group (this was just
before I started college) wanted him. We were friends and he hung out with my little
group of friends, but then I find out that he wanted me (and later found out that he had
only started hanging out with my friends because of me). We went on one date, and it
was really great. We ate out and then went ice skating and then went to his house and
watched a movie. I had a great time. And when I got home, I realized that I never wanted
to go out with him again. I realized that even though he was a great person and really nice
and sweet and VERY attractive, he just wasn't for me because we couldn't relate in any
other way but the attraction. I won't go into all the particulars, but we just didn't have
anything in common to the point where we had nothing to talk about, and we weren't on
the same intellectual level. I say all that to point out that one can make a conscious
decision to get over "Jordan"...

Now for the Brian dillemma. I haven't fallen for a Brian in my life. The only person I can
think of that would fit the category is one of my very best friends who had a crush on me
in 8th grade (and maybe longer, who knows) and is STILL one of my very best friends
and is currently involved with a very nice girl who is pretty much perfect for him. SOOO,
that doesn't work. Ultimately, I relate to Brian A LOT. I may not be male, but that doesn't
keep me from having crushes on people (even friends) that may never amount to
anything. For instance, to draw another parallel...I had a HUGE crush on one of my
closest friends for a LONG time (about 5 years). And he wasn’t the perfect guy- he had
flaws (I say this in the past tense only because the crush phase is over- I’m still friends
with him). But I was SOOOO in love with this guy. To the point where I would make
excuses to see him (Brian always showing up at Angela’s door), although I guess it’s a
little different because we were very close friends for a while. And every once in a while,
it would seem like he would finally see me for who I am, like he was finally going to
understand that I was perfect for him, but then, just at that moment, his on again/off
again girlfriend of many years would come back into the picture and throw things out of
wack again (lovely run-on sentences). I even asked this guy to prom- twice. Junior year
he didn’t think I was serious (because I had just asked this other guy who said no- it was
one of those spur of the moment crushes and another story entirely). Senior year, I asked
him to prom, he said yes and then the next day he called me (from where he went to
college in another state) and said that he couldn’t go because he had to go to his
ex-girlfriend’s (see the one I mentioned above) college graduation (they were still friends
at the time, though that was their final break-up). I kind of compare that to the whole
Angela going to the dance with Brian, finding out that Delia wasn’t coming and then
going off with Jordan, although, once again, it’s not a real solid parallel.

So sorry for telling you guys half my life story. =) Hope it wasn’t too boring. =) Now to
get back to what has been said on the board since I started this message (see my earlier
post)....

After reading everything that everyone else has written...I love the idea of Angela and
Brian getting together, and I like to imagine that in some fictional universe they would
have. I think that once Angela could see that Brian was hiding behind his insecurities,
and treat him accordingly, then Brian would come out from behind his mask a bit and
finally act like you would imagine he should. Just look at the few conversations (or parts
of conversations) where they actually related to each other and seemed to understand a
small part of what made the other tick. Like the conversation that they have about sex
(where Graham hears all of it from the couch)...they are actually smiling and laughing
together. And I think if Jordan hadn’t shown up in the final episode when he did...they
could have actually had a quasi-REAL conversation (except for the fact that if Angela
didn’t make some sign that she didn’t think Brian was quite as repelent as she usually
makes him out to be, then he might not open up at all and the conversation could end up
in a fight like usual).

But I do pretty much agree with grim’s point about the way they fight...it kind of amazes
me that they would speak to each other at all after some of the arguments they have...it
just shows that there is some underlying force unconciously drawing them back to each
other (just a side note to grim- looks like we didn’t get any writing done after all- we’ll
have to get something together eventually just so we’ll have example of this
Brian/Angela thing =) ).

To comment on Jack’s point, I’d like to make an addition- not only do we not know what
all the characters would be like when they get older, but what about how they shape each
others’ lives...I mean, would Graham have turned out the way he did if he hadn’t married
Patty (and vice versa)? Would Jordan have ever gotten his act together and started
working in school if Angela hadn’t pushed him and signed him up for tutoring? Would
Rickie have ever found a place to stay if it weren’t for Angela caring about him (and if it
weren’t for Rayanne, then Angela wouldn’t even know Rickie)? Just some thoughts to
muse on...feel free to comment if you wish.

So anyway, I cast my vote for Brian, despite all the points against him. I think once you
strip it all down (lose the masks and the walls) Brian would be perfect for Angela. Laugh
if you must. =)

And now I am going to prepare for bed because, sadly, I start school back tomorrow.

Tracey

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worldsapart
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Re: Brian

Post by worldsapart » Jan 11th 2000, 5:14 am

Well, I was going to go to bed and then I noticed that there were more posts, so here's my replies to those as well.

I have to say that I indentified more with Brian than I did with Angela. I was always more book smart and "geeky" (although I don't consider him truly geeky). I don't know that I was ever truly annoying like Brian (because I tended not to say anything at all), but I'm sure I've done some jerky things that are completely out of my true character (some of which involve the "Jordan" I mentioned before and I won't go into now), but I would hope that eventually people could see past it. So that's just my additional vote of confidence in Brian. =)

Tracey

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grim4746
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Re: Brian

Post by grim4746 » Jan 11th 2000, 6:22 am

First thing I want to again try to defend Brian. It's about him having no actual friends. I think it would be fair to say that Rickie is his friend. Beyond that there isn't much evidence of anyone else but in the Halloween episode when he calls his mom he says that he is at some guys house (I forget his name and I don't want to check). While this doesn't seem to be a great friendship seeing as we never hear of him again I think he was likely a real person because his mom seemed to think it was normal for Brian to be there. Now something else I discovered while telling my friend Sarah about this discussion here. SHe saw Brian on Felicity and someting else and said that he'd gotten kind of buff and was more attractive. Which fits into Jack's people change thing only on a shallow level, but then again most of us agree that Angela would have chosen largely on a shallow level. SO maybe in the end Brian might have been "perfect for Angela" even physically.
Last edited by grim4746 on Aug 10th 2003, 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ataris
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Re: Brian

Post by ataris » Jan 11th 2000, 7:19 am

Yes people do change in looks but no one changes in looks more then actors. See the thing is I have to admit to myself, but they are just actors and my point on that is maybe Brian had to get skinny for the show so he would look like a geek and after the show he went back to normal. Or another case he looks like that all the time and he changed for Felicity. As I'm sure you are aware of actors have to change for rolls so they aren't the best examples. Although the thing about people changing when they get older is very true. Okay so I just want to let everyone know that I am really bad at wording stuff right, and I can't figure out how to word this so I'm really sorry.

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emmie
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Re: Brian

Post by emmie » Jan 11th 2000, 8:21 pm

okay, so maybe I was a little hard on Brian in my first post. he's just as confused as anyone else and doesn't know what to do about his feelings. he definitely made a mess of things more than once, but I guess we all have at some point or another. I'm just so protective of Angela and get mad, like ataris when he tells her not to do things. Jack and oldguy were right on many levels. people change over their lives, especially when they're 15. just look at how much Angela had changed over one year. I'm 20 and still learning things about myself. I guess that never ends though. the great writing on the show made the audience aware of all different types of people. the writers gave them completely different live styles and home situations. they were able to do it without making the characters stereotypes. the reason for this is that they made them multi-dimensional, like real people. they tried to show us where the characters were coming from and why they did the things they did. Brian obviously had a tough time at home with his crazy parents, like the others. he's not my favorite character, but I do see where he is coming from. and at times I did relate to his dilemas. who hasn't tried everything, like going over to a crush's house, just to have an excuse to see them?

okay, so I went off on a wild tangent there...

emmie

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