Why did the writers have Jordan and Rayanne sleep together?

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Post by MyLifeIsBrians » Aug 5th 2004, 8:00 pm

Yes. Exactly. I agree.
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Jordan and Rayanne

Post by Meret » Aug 9th 2004, 10:04 pm

I see it as the natural order of things. Isn't that the way things usually happen? We stick with what we know, with what feels comfortable. Jordan is a bad-boy and Rayanne will do just about anything. They both come from similar backgrounds. Though Angela (wholesome, stable) has made herself available for Jordan (lost), I think he feels out-of-place with her, even though being with Jordan feels right to Angela. This episode always reminds me of Somekind of Wonderful and Pretty In Pink. Angela is tolerant of others, it shows in her circle of friends, while Jordan sticks with the same group of cronies (less tolerant of others).
To justify what transpired between JC and Ray, I've convinced myself it is because Jordan respects Angela too much to mar her purity, while Rayanne is a dirty old rag. Wham-bam-thank-you-maam!

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Re: Jordan and Rayanne

Post by Jody Barsch* » Aug 9th 2004, 11:03 pm

Meret wrote:I see it as the natural order of things. Isn't that the way things usually happen? We stick with what we know, with what feels comfortable. Jordan is a bad-boy and Rayanne will do just about anything. They both come from similar backgrounds. Though Angela (wholesome, stable) has made herself available for Jordan (lost), I think he feels out-of-place with her, even though being with Jordan feels right to Angela. This episode always reminds me of Somekind of Wonderful and Pretty In Pink. Angela is tolerant of others, it shows in her circle of friends, while Jordan sticks with the same group of cronies (less tolerant of others).
To justify what transpired between JC and Ray, I've convinced myself it is because Jordan respects Angela too much to mar her purity, while Rayanne is a dirty old rag. Wham-bam-thank-you-maam!
I think that you have successfully pigeon-holed all three of them. I dont think that it was destined to happen, or "in the natural order of things", simply because Jordan is sexually experienced and Rayanne takes pleasure in having "slut potential". Also, you may have just been writing in what you percieve is Jordan's crude view point, but Rayanne is not "a dirty old rag". She is beautiful, impulsive, exuberant, warm, infuriating, many things, but not that. Also, I don't think that Jordan's actions were premeditaed as you seem to suggest: "Jordan respects Angela too much to mar her purity, while Rayanne is a dirty old rag. Wham-bam-thank-you-maam!" The epsiode made it clear that it was, "jus this thing, that happened," very spontaneous and of the moment; Jordan is not calculating "Rayanne is a slut, so I can sleep with her now and not have to deal with it later." If you can't see that in the scene in the parking lot, it is clear the next day when Jordan approaches Rayanne to check in with her.

Also, while Jordan's actions are influenced by his friends, that does not stop him from interacting with marginalized characters. Ex: He talks to Brian and Rickie inside and outside of school numerous times. (In fact, it sometimes seems like Jordan opens up to about anyone who talks to him.) More often than not, it seems to me like Jordan dosn't really care what people think of him (although clearly not always, case in point, he doesn't leave the classroom when Vic tells him they will talk about him behind his back)

To justify what transpired between JC and Ray, I've convinced myself it is because Jordan respects Angela too much to mar her purity, while Rayanne is a dirty old rag.
Again, I'm not sure if this is your'e actual feeling, or what you imagine Jordan thinks, but I really take issue with this kind of thinking -- this madonna or whore mentality. But putting that aside, I don't think that's the issue here. Jordan tries to sleep with Angela repeatedly, it isn't that he can't think of her in that way (although he does recognize that she isn't going to just sleep with someone she hardly knows: "but you, you're not like that"). Yes, I think it is fair to say that in a way Jordan slept with Rayanne as a way of sleeping with Angela, but it is not so simple as the good girl - bad girl situation you have described. Remember that Jordan is feeling rejected by Angela, he feels distanceed from her and that he can't get close to her, "Sometimes it's like I really think I know her. And then it'll be like, like we're total strangers."
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Post by Angela_Catalano » Aug 10th 2004, 6:56 pm

I agree that it sucks that Rayanne and Jordan had sex! But whats a show without some conflict??

"whatever happens, happens" Jordan and Rayanne dont really like each other, it was never planned! They had a few drinks, and they "ummed"

Jordan was feeling hurt, because he thought that Angela had moved on and maybe he should have too!

Rayanne I think just wanted to get some attention and maybe prove that Jordan would actually do it. That maybe he wasnt all that right for Angela!

* But I think Angela and Jordan are a great couple*

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Re: Jordan and Rayanne

Post by Meret » Aug 11th 2004, 1:47 am

I think that you have successfully pigeon-holed all three of them. I dont think that it was destined to happen, or "in the natural order of things", simply because Jordan is sexually experienced and Rayanne takes pleasure in having "slut potential". Also, you may have just been writing in what you percieve is Jordan's crude view point, but Rayanne is not "a dirty old rag". She is beautiful, impulsive, exuberant, warm, infuriating, many things, but not that.


For this episode, perhaps I did pigeon-hole them. And wouldn't it be great if things were black or white, there would be no room for theories or rationalizations or questions. But it's human nature to question and forgive me if I put my two-cents in. As far as using "dirty-old-rag," I prefer that to slut or whore.
Also, I don't think that Jordan's actions were premeditaed as you seem to suggest: "Jordan respects Angela too much to mar her purity, while Rayanne is a dirty old rag. Wham-bam-thank-you-maam!" The epsiode made it clear that it was, "jus this thing, that happened," very spontaneous and of the moment; Jordan is not calculating "Rayanne is a slut, so I can sleep with her now and not have to deal with it later." If you can't see that in the scene in the parking lot, it is clear the next day when Jordan approaches Rayanne to check in with her.
I never suggested that Jordan's actions were premeditated. Because if it was spontaneous as you have stated, then isn't that natural?
Again, I'm not sure if this is your'e actual feeling, or what you imagine Jordan thinks, but I really take issue with this kind of thinking -- this madonna or whore mentality. But putting that aside, I don't think that's the issue here. Jordan tries to sleep with Angela repeatedly, it isn't that he can't think of her in that way (although he does recognize that she isn't going to just sleep with someone she hardly knows: "but you, you're not like that"). Yes, I think it is fair to say that in a way Jordan slept with Rayanne as a way of sleeping with Angela, but it is not so simple as the good girl - bad girl situation you have described.
I think you read too much into my post. Good girl-bad girl, that's not the point. Jordan went with what was available at the time and it just happened to be Rayanne. How much easier could it get?
Remember that Jordan is feeling rejected by Angela, he feels distanceed from her and that he can't get close to her, "Sometimes it's like I really think I know her. And then it'll be like, like we're total strangers."
And if Jordan can't get close to Angela, I'd hate to think he slept with Rayanne to get closer to Angela. :(

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Post by Guest » Aug 12th 2004, 4:52 pm

The epsiode made it clear that it was, "jus this thing, that happened," very spontaneous and of the moment; Jordan is not calculating "Rayanne is a slut, so I can sleep with her now and not have to deal with it later."
Maybe he didn't calculated it, but he certainly didn't mind her being a slut that night.And your "very spontaneous and of the moment" is much open for debate.Altough I agree with you that this wasn't premeditated, I think there's nothing spontaneous about that moment, meaning that they could have stopped if they wanted to.Few things that show that:

1 their conversation is fairly coherent, they are not so drunk that they can't control their actions

2 their hormones don't get the best of them =Jordan politely opens the door for her, looks around to see if anybody's watching them and finally gets in the car

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Post by grim4746 » Aug 12th 2004, 8:57 pm

I think your argument is a matter of semantics. For their actions to be "spontaneous and of the moment" does not mean that they were drunk or blindly controlled by hormones or even that they couldn't have stopped themselves if they had wanted to. It can simply mean that they made a choice suddenly without much forethought. They ran into each other at Louis' and had a depressing conversation then had comfort sex that only made things worse. I think it's totally fair to say that is "spontaneous and of the moment", it's not like they made plans earlier to meet at Louis' and have sex in the parking lot--oh wait they weren't in a parking lot they were in a car :D
guest wrote:he certainly didn't mind her being a slut that night
No he sure didn't. But I don't think Catalano has anything against sluts at anytime. And if he does it's physically against them and throbbing. For Jordan sex is just what you are supposed to do and he doesn't seem to have the double standard that girls aren't supposed to want it.

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Post by Nothingman » Aug 13th 2004, 10:29 am

grim4746 wrote:But I don't think Catalano has anything against sluts at anytime. And if he does it's physically against them and throbbing.
:lol:

I was going to post something about sluts, and guy code, but I think I'm just going to leave that one alone.
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Post by Megs » Aug 14th 2004, 11:20 am

grim4746 wrote: But I don't think Catalano has anything against sluts at anytime. And if he does it's physically against them and throbbing.
This made me LOL :lol:
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Post by Jody Barsch* » Aug 15th 2004, 5:21 am

grim4746 wrote:oh wait they weren't in a parking lot they were in a car :D
Good call
grim4746 wrote:And if he does it's physically against them and throbbing.
Excuse me?!
:shock:
:oops:
:?
:roll:
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Post by igor » Aug 17th 2004, 2:19 pm

Megs wrote:
grim4746 wrote: But I don't think Catalano has anything against sluts at anytime. And if he does it's physically against them and throbbing.
This made me LOL :lol:
Yeah me too.Very good. :oops: :lol:

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Re: Why did the writers have Jordan and Rayanne sleep together?

Post by majesty » Aug 3rd 2008, 4:09 pm

I completely agree. Jordan/Rayanee was the one thing I loathed about this show. I still cringe when I think about it. Like you I enjoyed the Angela/Rayanne/Rickie dynamic and because of that one event all of that was changed. I do believe in time Angela will be able to forgive Rayanne but I don't think their friendship will ever be the same and I hate that.
I think, though, that a major theme of the show is ever-evolving relationships. We can't expect Angela and Rayanne's friendship to simply stay stagnant forever. It would have to eventually progress or perhaps diminish in one way or the other over time. Just like with Sharon, Angela's relationship with Rayanne (and all of the other characters on the show) was going to require some adjustments. The Jordan/Rayanne thing was a way to bring about that change in a different way than had been explored with Angela's other relationships. Also, I think it's part of the show that something that causes further disillusionment for Angela must happen. We saw it with her father, her substitute, Jordan (several times), etc. Not that everyone has to hurt her, necessarily, but it definitely caused a change. We'd already seen the beginning of change in Angela and Rayanne's relationship in "On the Wagon."

What I like most is the way the show handled things. It didn't seem purely for "drama" that the thing occurred. The reactions were natural, and (in the show's usual fashion) nothing is cut and dry. Angela doesn't simply cut both of them out of her life. She has to still interact with both of them, especially Rayanne. And I think the show indicates they will be friends again, just like she mended her friendship with Sharon and just like Camille Cherski forgave Patti.

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Post by Jody Barsch* » Aug 4th 2008, 5:05 pm

Magesty wrote:I think, though, that a major theme of the show is ever-evolving relationships. ... Also, I think it's part of the show that something that causes further disillusionment for Angela must happen. ... What I like most is the way the show handled things. It didn't seem purely for "drama" that the thing occurred. The reactions were natural, and (in the show's usual fashion) nothing is cut and dry.
I totally agree Magesty. From the writers'/observers' point-of-view, it is important for Angela to be disillusioned in Jordan (as you said, "Off the Wagon" already did it for Rayanne); Angela can't continue seeing in Jordan only what she wants to see, it does seem inevitable that something would happen (worse than in "self-Esteem") to help her move a little closer to reality of Jordan Catalono versus the the myth and legend.
Also, before the event in the parking lot (oops, car), Jordan and Angela were in a state of semi-limbo -- not together, but behaving in some ways that they were -- each of them at different times thinking that they should be together (or confusing themselves to think that maybe they were together), and in some way, for the writers, the audience, and the characters, this situation needed to come to head. Continuing that way was likely to lead to one of them (Angela) getting hurt.
grim4746 wrote:No he sure didn't. But I don't think Catalano has anything against sluts at anytime. And if he does it's physically against them and throbbing. For Jordan sex is just what you are supposed to do and he doesn't seem to have the double standard that girls aren't supposed to want it.
Ahh, :D
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Re: Why did the writers have Jordan and Rayanne sleep together?

Post by ikilledkennyandjr » Aug 5th 2008, 11:58 am

If you guys hate it that much, then the writers did their job.

I totally agree that Angela needed to become disillusioned with Jordan, and Rayanne. It was like a complete reversal from the Pilot.
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Re: Why did the writers have Jordan and Rayanne sleep together?

Post by Jody Barsch* » Aug 8th 2008, 3:40 pm

ikilledkennyandjr wrote:If you guys hate it that much, then the writers did their job.
Actually, I love that scene. It's one of my favorites to watch, but I do agree with that sentiment.
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