Discussion for Episode 12: Self Esteem

General discussion about the nineteen episodes of "My So-Called Life". Note: Our episode guide can be found here.
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nkatsa
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Post by nkatsa » Apr 1st 2003, 1:55 am

candygirl wrote: This may be a classic case of criticizing in others what he dislikes most about himself - perhaps Rickie recognizes Mr. Katimski's personality as similar to his own on an unconscious level, which is why he resists joining the drama club for so long.
i was just going to say that i think this is exactly what was going on here. his reaction to mr katimski started off so extreme that it simply had to be some kind of unconscious freudian defense mechanism. he seemed to hate mr. katimski, and then he let it go when he started to realize what was going on behind the anger, which happened right after mr. katimski poignantly told him that "nobody should... hate who they are."
I bet you can actually die of embarrassment. I bet it's been medically proven.

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Post by TomSpeed » Apr 1st 2003, 1:15 pm

Rayanne

It is interesting that Rayanne stands up for Angela with Jordan and leaves Rickie to face Mr. Katimsky alone. I love how Rayanne grabs Jordan's pool stick at Pike Street. It is such a sudden and forceful movement. This declaratory action can be contrasted with her ditching Rickie three times when he runs into Mr. Katimsky. I believe that Rayanne feels more comfortable standing up to her peers than adults. Also, she probably gets the sense from Rickie, despite his protests, that Mr. Katimsky is interested in helping Rickie. Additionally, Rayanne probably understands that joining the drama club will be a good thing for Rickie. Joining the drama club will give something to Rickie that Rayanne and his other friends cannot.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Post by TomSpeed » Apr 1st 2003, 4:09 pm

candygirl wrote: In geometry, Miss Lerner says, "I'm not happy" to Angela and then tells Abyssinia, "Good job!" Maybe my school district had a different policy on student privacy, but teachers were not allowed to post grades with our names next to them. If they wanted to post grades, they had to come up with an alternate system (like giving us each a number). Similarly, they were not allowed to announce our grades to the class. Our teachers would not have been permitted to say obvious things like "Angela Chase, how do you expect to pass your midterm?" in front of the entire class
The entire series is filled with teachers not using customary discretion when talking about students. Teachers generally do not make negative comments about students in front of other students and/or parents. I guess the writers of MSCL wanted to make things more dramatic by having teachers say almost anything aloud.

The subject of posting grades is an interesting one. Generally, grades are not distributed publicly. However, some teachers, esp. those who teach college prep. classes, do post grades. A few of my teachers in high school posted grades for each test outside of their classroom doors. Teachers in my high school were on a tenure track similar to colleges. A teacher could do almost anything he wanted once he got tenure. Of course, enrolling in these courses was voluntary.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Post by Megs » Apr 1st 2003, 4:44 pm

Do you think that Ms. Lerner figured out that Mr. Kamitsky was gay when she said to Ms. Chavatal (?), "I just made a complete fool of myself."
"I have all these dreams where I know exactly what to say. And you tell me, you know, that you forgive me."

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Post by TomSpeed » Apr 1st 2003, 4:53 pm

Megs wrote:Do you think that Ms. Lerner figured out that Mr. Kamitsky was gay when she said to Ms. Chavatal (?), "I just made a complete fool of myself."
No. I think she just thought that she had bombed in her efforts to make enticing/entertaining/flattering small talk. She sounded like Angela. Some things we don't outgrow.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Post by TomSpeed » Apr 1st 2003, 6:29 pm

What does Jordan tap into his mouth (right before Shane talks to him about Buffalo Tom)? At first I thought they were breath mints, but he made such a terrible face - the kind little kids make when they are forced to take medicine - that it made me wonder.
It looks like breath spray or drops, like Binaca. You must have fresh and clean breath for the boiler room. The spray is concentrated and has a strong taste, but it is powerful. It is also quicker acting than mints. Jordan, who is man about town, probably doesn't leave home without it.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Megs
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Post by Megs » Apr 1st 2003, 8:01 pm

TomSpeed wrote:
What does Jordan tap into his mouth (right before Shane talks to him about Buffalo Tom)? At first I thought they were breath mints, but he made such a terrible face - the kind little kids make when they are forced to take medicine - that it made me wonder.
It looks like breath spray or drops, like Binaca. You must have fresh and clean breath for the boiler room. The spray is concentrated and has a strong taste, but it is powerful. It is also quicker acting than mints. Jordan, who is man about town, probably doesn't leave home without it.
I agree. I always thought that it was Binaca.
"I have all these dreams where I know exactly what to say. And you tell me, you know, that you forgive me."

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Post by TomSpeed » Apr 2nd 2003, 11:12 am

candygirl wrote:Angela laments Sunday nights as she lies on the couch not studying for her geometry midterm. I love when she says that Danielle's homework is "so simple a child could do it." Patty says that Graham is at cooking class. I found that a little strange - Sunday night is not usually when night classes are held. The first class was held on a non-Sunday night (the episode begins with Angela wearing a burgundy shirt with a plaid shirt over it - she makes out with Jordan, talks to Miss Lerner in the hallway, then comes home wearing the same outfit claiming that she was "studying for midterms" shortly after Graham tells Patty that he is "reviewing some terms for class tomorrow").
I like the fact that the Chases have 60 Minutes playing on TV. We always watched the show when I was growing up. It was part of the Sunday night ritual, just like going to Church and reading the paper was part of the Sunday morning ritual. Regularity is important. It provides comfort. Of course, if you have put off doing things, the 60 Minutes watch can be annoying and depressing. You don't usually hear a clock ticking anymore. Most timepieces are digital now.

It's so hilarious when Angela asks Brian if he can explain geometry to her despite her thoughtlessness. The look on her face is so expectant. Brian's explosion about all of the pressure he is under is sudden and somehow reassuring. Brian's not a robot. He feels pressure to excel like anyone else. He also doubts his ability to achieve what people expect of him. He also refuses to help Angela with something. This act is kind of refreshing as well.

Finally, I think since Stephan Dieter didn't show for the first class, a Sunday class was added to the schedule to make up for it. Or, the class might normally meet on Sundays. I agree that having a class meet on Sunday might be unusual because Sunday evenings are usually considered family time.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Natasha (candygirl)
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Apr 2nd 2003, 2:22 pm

TomSpeed wrote:I think since Stephan Dieter didn't show for the first class, a Sunday class was added to the schedule to make up for it. Or, the class might normally meet on Sundays. I agree that having a class meet on Sunday might be unusual because Sunday evenings are usually considered family time.
Actually, Hallie had them reschedule the first class for Friday night.

As I said earlier, the first class was not held on Sunday night because Angela comes home from school while Graham is studying for tomorrow night's first cooking class.
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Post by TomSpeed » Apr 2nd 2003, 3:30 pm

candygirl wrote:
TomSpeed wrote:I think since Stephan Dieter didn't show for the first class, a Sunday class was added to the schedule to make up for it. Or, the class might normally meet on Sundays. I agree that having a class meet on Sunday might be unusual because Sunday evenings are usually considered family time.
Actually, Hallie had them reschedule the first class for Friday night.

As I said earlier, the first class was not held on Sunday night because Angela comes home from school while Graham is studying for tomorrow night's first cooking class.
I got the impression that these were different days. The first class is during the week. There is a second class. Then the Sunday class occurs. I'll have to rewatch the episode again to nail the timeline down.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Natasha (candygirl)
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Apr 2nd 2003, 3:47 pm

TomSpeed wrote:I got the impression that these were different days. The first class is during the week. There is a second class. Then the Sunday class occurs. I'll have to rewatch the episode again to nail the timeline down.
Graham's first class takes place the day after the episode begins - an undisclosed weeknight -and Stephen doesn't show up for class. Hallie makes a big stink and has them reschedule a makeup class on Friday night (when Hallie calls Stephen Dieter "Rush Limbaugh"). The third class, on Sunday night, is when Stephen fails to show up again (he's in Idaho getting deglazed) and they end up asking Graham to teach the class instead.
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

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Post by TomSpeed » Apr 2nd 2003, 4:06 pm

candygirl wrote:
TomSpeed wrote:I got the impression that these were different days. The first class is during the week. There is a second class. Then the Sunday class occurs. I'll have to rewatch the episode again to nail the timeline down.
Graham's first class takes place the day after the episode begins - an undisclosed weeknight -and Stephen doesn't show up for class. Hallie makes a big stink and has them reschedule a makeup class on Friday night (when Hallie calls Stephen Dieter "Rush Limbaugh"). The third class, on Sunday night, is when Stephen fails to show up again (he's in Idaho getting deglazed) and they end up asking Graham to teach the class instead.
I probably misunderstood what you meant then. Did you mean it was strange that the class was on Sunday night? That's what I thought. I agreed that having class on a Sunday night is strange. We don't really know if the class meets once or twice a week. Usually, these community ed classes meet more than once a week.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Natasha (candygirl)
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Apr 2nd 2003, 4:31 pm

Sorry that previous post came out a little confusing - I guess I was thinking faster than my fingers were typing!

I was trying to that it's really unusual to have a Sunday night class, especially since the first class wasn't on a Sunday night. A lot of the adult ed classes here are once a week (especially classes that require more time like cooking) - usually the classes that are twice a week are shorter classes that only require one hour each night. They have some wacky class schedules in Angela's neighborhood!

:D
Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer.
You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

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Post by TomSpeed » Apr 2nd 2003, 6:29 pm

candygirl wrote: Abysinnia echos Sharon's sentiment that she is sick of being a perfect little school girl. Abysinnia then says, "I haven't cut a midterm in a real long time." If she's such a good girl, why would she have ever cut a midterm? She also says that being a school girl "isn't worth it." Is she referring to hiding it from her boyfriend or the amount of work she has to put in?
I get the imression that Abysinnia hasn't always been a stellar student. She probably was a poorly performing student who forced herself to make good grades. Maybe she had a bad home life or had other personal problems. She probably cut many classes in junior high. She's always been book smart, but probably wasn't smart in other ways. Of course, now she looks at what she's done to overcome things and she wonders if working hard is all that it is cracked up to be. If she's too smart, her boy friend might not like her. She doesn't like herself because she views herself the way others might see her. She realizes later in the episode that it's how she views herself that is important.
TomSpeed

Patty: If Rayanne's not seeing you, and we're not seeing you, who is seeing you?
Graham: And how much of you?
Angela: Dad!
Graham: Oh, I'm sorry! I asked a question about your life, didn't I? Woah, what came over me?
http://www.last.fm/user/TomSpeed/

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Post by Emeralduk » Aug 23rd 2003, 12:06 pm

This will be my last post on an episode for today, to space apart my many new thoughts. :Fade-color

Thoughts on "Self-Esteem":

Rickie says “they’re like this couple now” about Angela and Jordan to Rayanne, to which she replies “we’ll see”. Is this implying that she’s jealous of Angela's relationship? Maybe because Angela and Jordan’s relationship is just not about sex, it’s deeper than that. Rayanne is sad because she hasn’t found the right person yet (which she confesses to Sharon).

Jordan doesn’t want Angela colliding with his other life (his musical life?). They are two separate things and he doesn’t want people to know about her. He doesn't want people knowing that he has a sensitive side, that is not all about being tough and cool around his friends - that he does in fact, have emotions, even if he doesn’t always show them to Angela herself.

Angela says to Rayanne and Sharon “just because he’s not Kyle and doesn’t parade with me down the halls, holding hands”, about Jordan, which is what exactly happens. It’s more romantic that she expected, as it’s actually happening to her.
Also, Rayanne quickly adds to Angela’s statement “what is holding hands?” showing that she doesn’t really have room for romantic things. She has casual sex and doesn’t have romantic relationships. If she did have a long-term boyfriend in the future, maybe she would be able to handle her drinking problem, or give up completely, and Rickie wouldn’t have to worry about her as much.

Rayanne tries to help out Angela by talking to Jordan, so she does actually realise that there’s something special between them. She’s not as self-absorbed as some may think. She does care deeply for her friends.

Is it just me, or did Sharon ruin the most romantic scene of MSCL (partly aided by the cool Buffalo Tom music), by shouting to Angela about her geometry review?

Funny scene: Rickie ranting to Brian about Mr Katimsky. We think that they’re not even listening to each other, just getting out all their feelings of anger, but they actually are. :-P

*~Emerald~*
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