Angel

lance · Post by **lance** » Oct 24th 2003, 3:14 pm

candygirl wrote: I don't think that the problem with this season is Spike - it's the writers not knowing what to do. Unleashed was very unSpikecentric and there was still very little of any of the MoG - a few lines here, a few lines there for each of them. With the renewed Monster of the Week structure, they are spending too much time trying to make us care about the person who is being saved (or trying to explain why we should dislike the bad guy) and not enough time letting the main cast do anything but remind us that they took over an evil law firm. So far, aside from Gunn's brain thing, there has been absolutely no character development for ANYONE. All I see is Angel & Co putting out one fire after another and wondering who on staff is eeeeevil. If they are supposed to begin a downward spiral, how am I supposed to care when all I see is each character spouting science stuff (Fred) or legal stuff (Gunn), wallowing in self-pity (Angel and Spike), and what the heck does Wesley do now?

Don't get me wrong - this show is still better than all of the other crap on tv and I am loyal to the Jossverse (to the bitter end if need be), but the writers need to figure out what they are trying to do. I would love it if all the things we have complained about end up having some sort of purpose so that we will look back, smack ourselves on the forehead, and say, "Ooohhhhh, THAT'S what you were doing!"

Can you tell that I really didn't like the werewolf episode?

I hear ya Candygirl. You have managed to sum up my, I know there is a french word for this some where, sense of unease about the season so far. I get the distinct feeling of the characters being stuck. I keep waiting for them to get unstuck, and be exciting again. I don't want this season to be like Season 7 of Buffy where I just tune in, to tune in.

Very frustrating. Thanks for the background info on the state of dress of Marsters. I had never heard anything about it.

LanceMan

Post by **Natasha (candygirl)** » Oct 24th 2003, 3:49 pm

I am definitely feeling the way I did about BtVS S7 (yet!) with my excessive hate for almost all the potentials and wondering where the real Willow and Giles went after the Pod People took over their bodies. There is still a lot of promise in AtS (and I was relatively happy with the first two episodes), but I think that now they are past the point of constantly expositioning and need to get on with whatever is going to happen this season. I love the cast and I think that there are so many possiblities for the plot now that they are running the eeeeeeevil law firm, so I want to see them run with it, not crawl with it. Next week's episode looks fun though. [spoiler]But Angel getting it on with Eve? Ugh![/spoiler]

lance · Post by **lance** » Oct 25th 2003, 9:21 am

candygirl wrote:[spoiler]But Angel getting it on with Eve? Ugh![/spoiler]

Noooooooooooooo. Gak! He is surrounded by attractive women and that is the one he picks?

LanceMan

Post by **Natasha (candygirl)** » Oct 25th 2003, 7:09 pm

I was yelling at my tv when I saw the preview!

lance · Post by **lance** » Oct 31st 2003, 2:23 pm

So did anybody see Wednesday's episode?

What did you think?

Anybody got any spoiler news about upcoming episodes?

LanceMan

Post by **Natasha (candygirl)** » Oct 31st 2003, 2:26 pm

I have two words for Life of the Party: Something Blue.

JPP13 · Post by **JPP13** » Oct 31st 2003, 4:07 pm

Yeah, they've done this exact same plot a couple of times, most directly with the Willow spell going awry, and the awful beginnings of Spike and Buffy foreshadowed.

This season of Angel just seems bad. I hate to say I told you so, but Spike is going to be associated with the crappiest season on BOTH shows.

More fundamentally, I think that Joss has lost his magic. If this is just going to be a stupid monster of the week every week, I've got better things to do with my time.

Joss, kiss and makeup with Cordy/CC, scrap whatever the hell you are doing, have Spike die tragically (clothes on please), and figure out a way to move the plot along.

Post by **Natasha (candygirl)** » Oct 31st 2003, 4:39 pm

Killing Spike is not going to solve any of the more glaring problems - the writing, the plot, the direction, the lack of character development, the MOTW approach, or how annoying Eve is. Spike is not the problem - all of the aforementioned is. How else to explain how crappy Life of the Party was? It wasn't because Spike was the center of attention. It was because ME recycled a story from four years ago into Something Green for Lorne and still didn't give most of the characters anything to do. Heck, even Lorne didn't have much to do besides yell every once in a while and it was a Lorne-centric episode.

JPP13 · Post by **JPP13** » Oct 31st 2003, 4:56 pm

It would be silly for me to argue that killing Spike would cure all the very real problems you noted. But I think it would be a start....

From I what perceive, Angel has been redesigned to "dumb it down" for a hoped for larger audience. Hence all the sex and pee jokes, which insult most of the original watchers of the show. I believe Spike was ultimately brought in because someone at ME believes that a certain segment finds Spike "Hott", particulalrly with his shirt off. That is, in a nutshell, what is happening (IMO).

Seems to me that there are two groups of people who watch Angel (with some overlap). Those who were there from the beginning, who grew to love the dark brooding champion show on its own merits. The other group gravitated to Angel as Buffy faded away. I don't believe the current dynamics of the show appeal to either group. No one from the old school Angel fans really care about Spike. The newer converts generally have a bad taste in their mouths from the last 2 years of Buffy and would like to see a return to the intelligent, challenging writing they used to enjoy.

The path Joss appears to be on will surely drive off both groups, while perhaps appealing to a few giggly 14 year olds.

Lastly, I may have to apologize for all the bad things I've said about Marti Noxon the past couple of years.

Post by **Natasha (candygirl)** » Oct 31st 2003, 5:47 pm

You know it's bad when you start repenting from your past Marti cursing.

I think that this season is very disjointed on so many levels. Joss & Co. really need to decide what the heck they are trying to do with the story and the characters and start doing it.

As far as Naked Spike is concerned, the WB is trying to exploit whatever they have as part of the show now. Perfect example is the nudity warning for Hellbound, but NO nudity warning about Angel being completely naked not once but twice in Life of the Party. He has topless in almost every single episode of AtS. I'm not disgusted by David Boreanaz, but I also don't see the need to have him show his bare chest once a week. At least on BtVS, it was a little more plausible to see Spike naked after having sex with Buffy. Angel is always putting on a shirt, taking off a shirt, getting into the shower, getting out of the shower - gratuitious toplessness. It's not a new thing - in watching the AtS S1 & S2 DVDs, I noticed it a lot more than I did when I initially watched the show. Anyway, we also had naked Fred in the shower last week and Gunn showing his bare chest this week (as well as naked Eve - ugh). I'm pretty sure they won't ever go to naked/topless Lorne (mostly to spare Andy Hallett from having to be painted up that much) and there is a [spoiler]Wes-centric episode coming[/spoiler] - what are the chances that we'll see Wes topless? ME is obviously trying to please everyone, which is not going to work. What happened to the JW's philosophy that he gives us what we need, not what we want?

Post by **Natasha (candygirl)** » Nov 2nd 2003, 2:58 am

Casting spoilers about the 100th episode from Kristin at eonline (keep in mind she's about 50/50 on her info):

http://www.eonline.com/Gossip/Kristin/A ... 1031b.html

[spoiler]
Angel
The Mystery: Where is Charisma Carpenter?
The Answer: Found! It's confirmed--Charisma (Cordelia Chase) is scheduled to return for one episode, most likely the show's 100th, which shoots at the end of November. Meanwhile, it doesn't look likely that Sarah Michelle Gellar will be back; however, Juliet Landau (Drusilla) already shot an episode that Nov. 19, and producers are hopeful Alyson Hannigan will soon make an appearance.[/spoiler]

HOWEVER:

[spoiler]From CharismaCarpenter.com:

Posted by Chrissy on 10/22
Quote:
It is my understanding that there has been a script sent to CC's agent for Script approval. Her agents comment was "They think you are coming back" CC's comment "not unless they make me an offer I can't refuse." So Like I said before, it's a wait and watch situation. BUT........the most interesting things was when Bell told CC's agent about all the email and faxes they had recieved. That speaks volumns. It is nice to know that the fans really do make a difference. [/spoiler]

lance · Post by **lance** » Nov 2nd 2003, 3:04 pm

JPP13 wrote:Yeah, they've done this exact same plot a couple of times, most directly with the Willow spell going awry, and the awful beginnings of Spike and Buffy foreshadowed.

This season of Angel just seems bad. I hate to say I told you so, but Spike is going to be associated with the crappiest season on BOTH shows.

More fundamentally, I think that Joss has lost his magic. If this is just going to be a stupid monster of the week every week, I've got better things to do with my time.

Joss, kiss and makeup with Cordy/CC, scrap whatever the hell you are doing, have Spike die tragically (clothes on please), and figure out a way to move the plot along.

I do agree with you that Angel Season 5 is on its merry way to be as bad as Buffy Season 6. I don't think that Spikes character is the problem.

Take away Spike what do you have? Angel is still terrible sans Spike. I think the show has no clear sense of direction. I also think that the plots have been weak thus far.

Maybe things may turn around, maybe.

LanceMan

Post by **Natasha (candygirl)** » Nov 4th 2003, 4:39 pm

There is now an auction to visit the set of Angel and the proceeds go to charity: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2568348629

K-man · Post by **K-man** » Nov 4th 2003, 9:06 pm

Here's my two cents from the latest season..... First of all, I agree wholeheartedly we need Cordelia back. And not the strong, sharp, assertive, independant woman-Cordy we had in her last season either. Bring back the obnoxious, self-absorbed, clueless, dingbat that looked smokin' hot in her tight outfits, had a pension for saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and drove Wes and Xander nuts.

I have been watching Angel Season 1 on TNT and Cordy was so much more entertaining back then. Kill Spike???? I say No Way! Spike is the only bright spot this season thus far. Take away Spike from the shows so far this season and you have a real (boring) disaster. Kill Fred if anyone. Enough with her.

I agree the ep's so far have not been up to par. The writing is really off compared to earlier work. While I agree the Halloween ep. last week sucked, I was just glad to see Lorne as the main character for once. A. Hallet is great. Hopefully Joss and co. will find their way back to their groove and finish strong. I aint looking to sign any more "save-the-show" petitions next spring.

lance · Post by **lance** » Nov 6th 2003, 11:28 am

Finally, finally...

a great episode of Angel this season. Perhaps it was just a good episode, but hey with what has been shown this season, last nights episode contrasts nicely.

Vintage Joss, the teaser for this week, IMHO was completely misleading. The teaser was light, the episode was meaty. I liked the story and the writing, never thought I would say that this season, and I liked the characters.

And bonus [spoiler] Looks like Angel has his groove back, so to speak. No more brooding, back on track with the prophecy.[/spoiler]

LanceMan

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