European Addresses

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ginger1
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European Addresses

Post by ginger1 » Jun 22nd 2002, 3:25 am

As i await another email confirmation im wondering if the address on the envelope may be holding things up. the address on the last communication i got from AU was alice in wonderland stuff; because of the zip code nonsense. this resulted in all sort of combinations of letters and numbers being spalttered across the envelope. there is a perception that america is incredibly insular and this sort of thing confirms it. might it not be easier for all concerned if the us webmasters designed things so that a european address would negate the need for a zip code.

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Re: European Addresses

Post by Jason R » Jun 22nd 2002, 9:48 am

since 9/11 my impression is that we are not insular enough.

However, let me add that 9/11 gave me an incredible ability to not stress the little stuff. I was working on a release of a box set at BMG, for Harry Belafonte's "Long Road To Freedom" project. The release date was 9/11/01.

Not only that, but I later learned that I was going to be laid off on the release date if 9/11 had not happened. Instead, I was laid off 2 weeks later along with many great friends from BMG.

I had built up the release date in my mind, where it was such an important event. Let me just say that when I lost the BMG gig, I considered myself lucky compared to so many other New Yorkers. So, to me, June 18, July 18, July 30, whenever they ship, is good enough for me. (This is not to say that I won't continue to hound them).

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Re: European Addresses

Post by ginger1 » Jun 22nd 2002, 11:58 am

i'd like it to be clear that i agree and sypmathise with jason. it was only a matter of chance that my own brother in law was not working in the financial sector of new york that terrible day. i perhaps phrased my mail in an unfortunate manner. its just the zip code business drives us nuts over here. its a very small thing and the happenings of 11 sept will not be forgotten. it should help us to keep things like delays in receiving dvd sets in proportion.

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Re: European Addresses

Post by Jason R » Jun 22nd 2002, 2:36 pm

i agree though, the e-commerce sites are very US-centric. and there is not a clear overlap between some of the fields.

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Re: European Addresses

Post by Guest » Jun 23rd 2002, 3:41 pm

I agree with Ginger......

US of A is arrogant, isolated, obnoxious, insular and seemingly unaware that the rest of the world exists - they never put themselves across very well to the rest of the world and anything that has happened to their country is of their own doing........THEY were the only country in the world last September to be suprised by what happened. Every one else was shocked and saddened, yes, but NOT suprised. They need to pull their head out of their ass and realise that they are not the only country in the world!

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Re: European Addresses

Post by jehnidiah » Jun 23rd 2002, 5:22 pm

"US of A is arrogant, isolated, obnoxious, insular and seemingly unaware that the rest of the world exists - they never put themselves across very well to the rest of the world and anything that has happened to their country is of their own doing........THEY were the only country in the world last September to be suprised by what happened. Every one else was shocked and saddened, yes, but NOT suprised. They need to pull their head out of their ass and realise that they are not the only country in the world!"

I'm the least patriotic person you'll ever meet, but you're showing your obvious age of 13 by all of the stereotyping and unneeded insulting in your post. And by the way, isn't "shocked" and "surprised" basically the same thing? Hmm.

"You can still love someone, even if they're not THE one any more."

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Re: European Addresses

Post by ginger1 » Jun 23rd 2002, 5:40 pm

i totally disagree with eveything anonymous had to say. it is revealing that he/she spouts their bitterness but hides their identity. it is sad to see such hatred on this of all message boards. i dont know what that person is doing here. its depressing.

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Re: European Addresses

Post by Jason R » Jun 24th 2002, 7:26 am

"anything that has happened to their country is of their own doing"

Anonymous, I can go through a laundry list of different countries and tell you the stereotypes that others, including Americans, have of people from those countries. My initial instinct was to simply call you an idiot, and be done with you. In fact, before editing the post, that is just what I did.

However, when you view the venomous, anti-American and antisemitic nonsense being broadcast by the governments of the homelands of the some of the September 11 murderers, it becomes clear that the United States, and the freedoms enjoyed by its citizens are not the cause. In fact, it is ironic that your post would appear on the MSCL forum, as this show would, in fact, be banned in most of those countries.

I am proud to live in a country where, despite our own generous share of idiots, people can live their lives as they choose and fly their freak flags as high and as proudly as they would like.

Maybe I am being overly sensitive, being a New Yorker and having witnessed the effects of the terror attacks, but I can assure you that we still hold our heads high. I'd rather live in a country that is bombed than a country that turns its children into bombs.

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Whoa, Whoa, Whoa....

Post by K-man » Jun 24th 2002, 1:12 pm

Ya know.....I, like Jason just typed about a 3 page response to this post but then realized 'what's the point'? If I were betting I would venture that this post didn't come from some extreme-minded person from another country but some goofball right here in the U.S. who is just trying to stir the pot. Well guess what pal...you picked the wrong address to go looking for a fight. This website/forum is about a group of fiercely dedicated fans of a wonderful TV show about hope, caring, relationships, reality and happiness. You aren't gonna find a bunch of half-cocked fringe-element types looking for an argument here. You see; we Lifers are all about The Show. Anything pertaining to 'MSCL' is fair game here. We discuss, compare and contrast, and debate different aspects of our show. We DON'T attack, belittle, and berate others or their opinions. (Or their country, race, religion, sexual preference or nationality.) Whether we live in U.S., Canada, U.K., Austrailia, or anywhere else on the planet all are welcome and encouraged to participate. This place is about The Show, it is not about your hallucinations on where the U.S. stands with regard to world affairs. So please go change the world someplace else if you please. And lastly.....get a profile and userID here in the forum if you intend to stay. Hiding behind "anonymous" is more than a little cowardly.

So my feeling is, whatever happens, happens. K-man

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Hey Anonymous, you pig.

Post by socalledfan » Jun 24th 2002, 2:46 pm

YOU are a disgrace to humanity.

ANYONE who implies that America deserves this in any way is out of their damn mind. You are exceedingly arrogant, as well as astoundingly misguided in life.

Hey, if you're American, and you hate your country so much, get the hell out...
If you live elsewhere, then get YOUR head out of YOUR ass. Unless you side with terrorism, shut your mouth.

To any other "Lifers" reading this...no offense meant to any of you. Terrorism is an attack on FREEDOM. Period. And this loser just caught this proud free American on the wrong day.

I love the free world and good people...and I love MSCL.

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Re: Whoa, Whoa, Whoa....

Post by alicia » Jun 24th 2002, 2:58 pm

Go K-man, go k-man. I totally agree with everything u said and second it.

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Re: Whoa, Whoa, Whoa....

Post by socalledfan » Jun 24th 2002, 3:19 pm

Yes, K-Man, I agree with Alicia here, great post. Great post by Jason too. You guys took the high road....as you can see in my post above (entitled "Hey Anonymous, you pig") I let my anger get the best of me. I don't like to take part in debates of that nature. But I am sick of people trashing America and I guess I responded from the gut.

Back to the business of this board....loving MSCL. :-) And waiting for our beloved DVD.




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Re: Whoa, Whoa, Whoa....

Post by K-man » Jun 24th 2002, 3:58 pm

SoCalledFan,
Hey, thanks for the support, (and Alicia too) and no apologies needed. You are right-on in what you had to say. I initially posted something with a lot more salt in it but maybe I didn't have the guts to let 'em have it like you did. Sooo; I took a walk around the block and cooled off a little and edited things a bit. I think Jason showed the most restraint and class however. If I lived in N.Y. that close to ground zero (or the Pentagon or PA) my post would have surely lacked the cool and calm Jason displayed.

So my feeling is, whatever happens, happens. K-man

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Re: The other viewpoint

Post by Ed Taylor » Jun 24th 2002, 5:13 pm

I understand that this board shouldn't become a political battle ground, but I think that in every debate both sides should be made clear.

Although I do not know who the anonymous sender was, I believe I understand their reasoning for what they said. They may have just been trying to anger people, in which case I want nothing to do with their post, but there is a valid point to be made.

I'm not sure how the September 11th events were reported in America, but in the UK where I live, we were given the full picture. How America financed Bin Laden and aided his assent to power in Afghanistan. Apparently the CIA specifically chose to support the Taliban fighters because they were the most ruthless.

It's all very well America preaching that it is the guardian of freedom and democracy, and Americans falling for this hook, line and sinker, but putting the Taliban in control of Afghanistan was just another case of America supporting "the right kind of dictatorship" while it suited them. Freedom, it would seem, is in the eye of the beholder. The American government thought that putting the Taliban in control was freeing Afghanistan, and now they think that ousting the Taliban is freeing Afghanistan.

This is short-sighted to say the least, and the idea that America would not suffer as a result of funding Islamic extremists who hate the West is rightfully called arrogant.

If America's democracy was as good as people say it is, then the electorate would have been more informed about their country's international "influence" / war mongering. Unfortunately, before 9/11, Americans seemed to have been disinterested in the world around them, assuming that they were safe and that their government was making the right decisions.

So is America isolated and insular? I would have to say yes.

Now, I have no grounds to argue that America is obnoxious and I am not going to condone anonymous' final sentence, but I would like to justify one other thing that they have been attacked for, which is their desire to remain anonymous. I think the answer should be clear if you take a step back at look at yourselves:

"Hey Anonymous, you pig."
"You are a disgrace to humanity."
"You're showing your obvious age of 13 by all of the stereotyping and unneeded insulting in your post."

It would seem that the writer of that last sentence is missing a sense of irony (no offense) if they can call someone a 13 year old and reprimand them for "stereotyping and unneeded insulting" in the same sentence.

Obviously people are entitled to react however they want to anonymous's post, but I think that they would have made their point better if they hadn't sunk to the level that they were trying to look down on. Surely freedom of speech only exists when someone can give their view without being insulted and berated for it, no matter how extreme their view.

It is unsurprising, therefore, that anonymous decided to keep their name a secret. They are probably all too aware of how America has worked its citizens up into a patriotic frenzy like a pack of rabid dogs, ready to attack anyone who doesn't fit in. Well, if it is cowardly to want to avoid being branded a traitor or an extremist, then I can understand anonymous being a 'coward'. I however will give my name and am prepared to face the consequences.

Ed

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My last comments about this.

Post by Jason R » Jun 24th 2002, 7:08 pm

What makes the USA great is that Anonymous can post on the MSCL.com message board via the internet, which was created by the US Department of Defense as a "gracefully degrading" method of communication in the event of nuclear war. A whole country could be destroyed and you could communicate via an alternate route.

Hopefully we won't ever need this special feature. But at least we can take comfort in the fact that it is being put to good use. Anonymous can say what he/she thinks he/she knows about the USA, and I can call him/her an idiot even though we never met and are probably oceans apart.

With Ed's comments it is another story. It is not a veiled attack, it is an opinion being stated publicly. There is nothing cowardly about it. I believe he is wrong, but my perspective is certainly going to be different based on my own life.

To answer Ed's comments, I will just say that it is a massive stereotype to say that Americans are blindly Rah-Rahing their government. I didn't vote for Bush, nor did the majority of Americans. But I will put aside my differences, and perhaps some of my civil liberties, until people stop cowardly targeting American civilians. There are many vocal protestors in the US. At least their government gives them the right to voice their opinion.

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