Are Certain Forms of Media Age Specific?

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andrewgd
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Are Certain Forms of Media Age Specific?

Post by andrewgd » Aug 13th 2003, 5:39 pm

Just the other day I ran across two separate articles/rants, but they had very similar themes.

One focused on a comic book retailer who sold an adult comic to an adult undercover police officer. But since the prosecutor argued that comics are inherently a childrens medium, thus, he was making adult material available to children. The prosecutor won the case and the retailer now faces jailtime and fines.

The other was a political cartoon blaming video games for childhood violence. This was brought up on Penny Arcade, and you should just read his arguement in the link below. "Obviously the fact that videogames are not seen as a legitimate form of entertainment along the lines of movies or television is astounding to me."

Please read the articles:

http://www.cbldf.org/pr/archives/000146.shtml

http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2003-08-11

Since I am both a comic book enthusiast, and a video game player, I would love the opinion of people who aren't both. Or any other opinions people have on these articles.

Do people actually believe that since comics and video games are percieved to be for children, that they should only be made for children?

Additional Links:

http://www.frankbeaton.com/columns/texas.htm (this is before the Supreme Court non-decision)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/3271.html (an interview with the head of the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund)
Last edited by andrewgd on Aug 13th 2003, 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nothingman
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Post by Nothingman » Aug 13th 2003, 6:07 pm

I'm not into comics, but after watching the documentaries on the making of the Animatrix, I have new understanding of the vast diversity among them. I strongly disagree with the judges ruling on this one. A lack of understanding, or an unwillingness to open ones eyes to see the big picture here is at fault. A big issue was that the store was across form an elementary school. As long as it was legal to sell adult material in that area, the store has done nothing wrong. He sold the adult comic to an adult, not to a kid. Obviously, kids come in the store, but I doubt the adult comics are in the window. It makes sense that the store may also carry other forms of comics to broaden its customer base.

I don’t buy these types of comics, but I take issue with “tradition” influencing the law. If the conservative majority of the town disagreed with it they could draw up an ordinance restricting the sale of adult material near schools. But to make an example of someone and infringing on their rights is unacceptable. Gas stations are not prosecuted for selling Hustler over the counter, even though kids come in to buy candy. The article states that the material was in a medium that directly appeals to kids and they took issue with that. Porno mag’s are nothing but pictures, how does a book of pictures directly appeal to kids any less than a comic book? Untraditional does not equal illegal.
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andrewgd
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Post by andrewgd » Aug 13th 2003, 6:11 pm

Nothingman wrote:A big issue was that the store was across form an elementary school.
One article states that there was an adult book store even closer to the school than the comic shop. :? So I don't think that issue was as important as the medium. :?
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Nothingman
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Post by Nothingman » Aug 13th 2003, 6:32 pm

andrewgd wrote:One article states that there was an adult book store even closer to the school than the comic shop. So I don't think that issue was as important as the medium.
I agree, but I love how the prosecutor used it in his closing arguement to induce the image of the comic book smut peddler preying on the innocent school children.
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lance
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stuff

Post by lance » Aug 15th 2003, 11:10 am

(Deep sigh)

Every 5 to ten years or so some over zealous prosecutor, religious group or parents association goes up in arms declaring that the youth of today are being corrupted by: rock & roll, long hair, feminism, secularism, homosexuals, Dungeons & Dragons, Comic Books, videogames, television, heavy metal, rap music, dancing, etc. Though it all most young people have grown up to be decent and caring adults.

Fact: Adult comic books sold to adults hurts noone, with the possible exception of the emotional trauma (sarcasm) done to local prosecutors who have way too much time on their hands.

There in lies my two cents.

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grim4746
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Re: stuff

Post by grim4746 » Aug 15th 2003, 10:08 pm

[quote="lance"]Every 5 to ten years or so some over zealous prosecutor, religious group or parents association goes up in arms declaring that the youth of today are being corrupted by: rock & roll, long hair, feminism, secularism, homosexuals, Dungeons & Dragons, Comic Books, videogames, television, heavy metal, rap music, dancing, etc. Though it all most young people have grown up to be decent and caring adults. /quote]

These are serious issues I know but I couldn't help but laugh as your post rememinded me of something that happened when I was about 10 years old. An especially concerned aunt of my was caught up in the over zealous freak out about Dungeons & Dragons. At the time I'd never heard of it but she scared the hell out of me talking about it and made me promise I'd never play it. When the chance came up I played but found it a little dull after the build up it had been given.

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Post by Nostradamus » Aug 17th 2003, 8:34 am

Assuming that videogames did transform respectful youngsters into slavering sharpshooter rapists, it's not a point I'll grant in any other context, but let's say it's true: Where did they get the (then) two or three hundred dollar Playstation 2 to run this toxic software? The computer with the 3D hardware? The broadband connection? I really want to know what societal dementia persists in letting parents off the hook for this s**t.
Amen!

[rant]

If such a creature as Parental Responsibility still exists, its skeleton must be hanging in a museum somewhere, because I have seen precious little evidence of it among the general public of late. It seems it is easier to outlaw every last product or activity that could possibly harm a child than to simply keep an eye on the kids when they are young, and teach them to take care of themselves as they grow up.

Is your child overweight? Don't blame yourself. It's not your fault that you don't ensure he gets enough exercise, or that you don't serve him healthy, well balanced meals every day. Did you know the junk food industry intentionally markets their fatty snacks to minors? Sue the bastards!

Surely no one expects the parents to actually teach their children morals and values and self-respect. That is for the schools. Mommy and Daddy can't help it if little Bobby goes on a killing spree, or Jill is pregnant at age 14. Guns are everywhere! The music industry is selling poison! Call the lawyers! Sue, sue, sue!

Every time I hear some politician or activist use the phrase "it's for the children", I run away screaming because I know that phrase has the power to turn the minds of otherwise intelligent people into mush, so that the politicos can pass some horrible new law that repeals a basic freedom or establishes an oppressive new bureaucracy that will make my life even more complicated than it already is.

[/rant]

Grrr... Anyway, sorry if I rambled, and thanks to Andrew for the links, sad though they are.
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lance
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Re: stuff

Post by lance » Aug 18th 2003, 9:49 am

grim4746 wrote:
lance wrote:Every 5 to ten years or so some over zealous prosecutor, religious group or parents association goes up in arms declaring that the youth of today are being corrupted by: rock & roll, long hair, feminism, secularism, homosexuals, Dungeons & Dragons, Comic Books, videogames, television, heavy metal, rap music, dancing, etc. Though it all most young people have grown up to be decent and caring adults. /quote]

These are serious issues I know but I couldn't help but laugh as your post rememinded me of something that happened when I was about 10 years old. An especially concerned aunt of my was caught up in the over zealous freak out about Dungeons & Dragons. At the time I'd never heard of it but she scared the hell out of me talking about it and made me promise I'd never play it. When the chance came up I played but found it a little dull after the build up it had been given.
Cool,

Glad that I could bring mirth to your day :D

My mom was actually pretty cool about it. I was 10 and my brother 7 when we started playing D&D. My was a single mom working and going to school. She trusted us to use our judgement and generally didn't raise a fuss. So it worked out fairly well.

Your point is well taken. When adults go over the top about something they don't want kids/teens to do what is the response? Kids/teens become curious and want to see what all the fuss is about. Some do this out of defiance against the parental units in question.

Lance Man

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Post by Nothingman » Aug 19th 2003, 11:04 am

No wonder parents are outraged about what's on TV and how violent video games are. When your child is being raised by Mrs. Cable TV and Mr. X-box. Heaven forbid the parents do something with them or give them guidence beyond, "let your brother play too".

Nickelodeon needs a disclamer that runs every half hour saying "this station is not designed to fill the role of a parent and is therefore not liable for any child's upbringing." Might help clear up the confusion.

I believe Chris Rock made this point best: "It's not your kids fault he can't read, if you said more to him than "mommy be back", he might know something."
"To come to your senses, you must first go out of your mind." - Alan Watts

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starbug
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Post by starbug » Aug 21st 2003, 5:22 am

I am neither a comic enthusiast nor a videogame player. I mean, I have read comics (though not the adult variety) and I have played my SNES, but I'm not what you'd call a collector or anything.

I am increasingly disturbed by the erosion of freedoms and the intense paranoia that seems to be rapidly increasing in the USA. I could go on for hours as I have just come back from 2 weeks in the US, but my fingers would start to hurt and I would begin to go purple with rage.

With regard to the comic book case, what a pile of sh*t judgment. I fail to see the difference between a comic book shop selling the entire range of child and adult based comics, with the adult ones clearly marked as such and a refusal to sell those without proper photo ID proving age, and a shop selling videos and DVDs ranging from Disney films to Pornography, so long as the same regulations are enforced. Presumably, Jesus would not have sold the adult comic to a kid. If he had, I think Texas might have had a case... but he didn't. Is it enough that it's 'near' a school? Of course not. Does the medium matter? Not in my opinion. Like I say, I'm not a comic book enthusiast but even in my limited experience, since I was about 12 years old, I was aware that adult comics existed. I wouldn't even go so far as to accept the argument that comics are 'traditionally' aimed at children. Are you going to say that DVDs are aimed at adults because some DVDs come with an x-rated certificate? I don't think so. I cannot imagine what sort of judges upheld the conviction - I can only imagine that it was so many years since they went to law school that they have forgotten what the law is.

And don't even get me started on parental responsibility. I am sick to death of irreponsible parents ruining society for the rest of us, and equally sick of the 'protect the children' clamour that you hear ludicrously often these days. I of course believe that children should be respected as individuals and should have rights, and be protected. However I am a strong believer in the fact that parents who think that grown adults should have their freedoms curtailed because they as parents shouldn't have to take responsibility for their children's upbringing should wake up and smell the coffee. Children need education in what is right and wrong, and when they are bad, they need to be punished.

I had a liberal upbringing (much more liberal than lots of my friends) but my parents still managed to teach me compassion towards fellow human beings, and that when they told me I couldn't do something, I might not like it but in the end it was for my own good. At the time, of course, I didn't like it. But I'm glad they enforced it.

I have yet to see evidence there is a link between people playing video games and turning into monsters. I completely agree with Lance and Nostrodamus on this one. It's just another round of the 'nothing is our fault or responsibility' school.

I think it all comes back to the interesting theme in MSCL - nobody wants to be told that they are a bad parent. Nobody wants that judgment to be made on them by anyone else. they like to believe that they're doing a fine job. Politicians, TV broadcasters, High Court judges are all parents. It's easier for them to accept that there's something else to blame than to have the courage to admit that it might be their own fault that their child is turning into an unbearable human being.

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Nothingman
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Post by Nothingman » Aug 21st 2003, 10:59 am

I think one of the main themes of this case is the influence of conservative values on law. Specifically, the manipulation or silencing of the law to serve the conservative agenda. In addition to this, these elected officials thought it was appropriate to infringe on an individuals rights in order to make an example for the “greater good” of the community. Where could such a travesty of justice occur, you might ask. In Texas of course, where everything is bigger including the bull sh!t. And what state did Bush come from, oh yeah, Texas! I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
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Post by starbug » Aug 21st 2003, 11:24 am

That's true.

Many of them could benefit from reading J.S. Mill 'On Liberty'.

I am pleased to note from my recent trip that the anti-Dubya camp seems to be gaining ground within the US... there is always hope :)

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Post by lance » Aug 21st 2003, 12:14 pm

starbug wrote:That's true.

Many of them could benefit from reading J.S. Mill 'On Liberty'.

I am pleased to note from my recent trip that the anti-Dubya camp seems to be gaining ground within the US... there is always hope :)
Hope does indeed spring eternal. Of course another four years of John Ashcroft we won't have many civil liberties left. The American press has slowly woken up to their responsibilities of oversight, hopefully not to late.
Thank God for the British press.

Starbug thanks for you lengthy earlier post. You speak well and you speak for many Americans who share your point of view.

Lance Man

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