Quality of DVD picture

This forum is for questions/discussions about the now sold out first DVD box set by BMG / AnotherUniverse.
tabonyhl
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I agree w/ Double Billed....

Post by tabonyhl » Nov 14th 2002, 9:16 pm

Long time Lurker, first time poster (and huge fan of the show, and pretty much all things Holzman, Herskovitz & Zwick) I definitely have to agree with Double Billed about the picture quality here... there is no excuse for artifacting this bad... I am a professional shooter/editor of commercials who has a lot of video equipment at home, including a capture card and DVD burner setup that cost me about $1,500. (Not cheap, but for video equipment, that's nothing.) Granted, I couldn't have done the 5.1 surround on this, but otherwise, I could have burned these DVD's for everybody if somebody had handed me the masters. And if you'd given me since Febuary, I might have been done by now. :lol:

By the way, for those of you who aren't videophiles, it's pretty much impossible for this (the artifacting, at least) to be a problem exclusive to only a few sets. MPEG files are made up of I, B, and P frames, of which I frames are the only fully stored frames. The other images are rebuilt inside your DVD player using only the changes from the nearest I frame (the parts of the picture that have changed are stored) Now, the I frames are also somewhat compressed, but it's important that this compression is done carefully, so that each I frame comes as close as possible to "matching" those nearest it, in terms of brightness, color quality, and the like. When commiting video to an MPEG stream, you can't just hit PLAY on a Beta deck and record on your computer if you want quality.

It is actually possible to pick out each I frame as it goes by while watching these DVD's. Look at a solid surface, or even at a portion of the screen that's pure black. Do you see a little jump of interference at a regular rate? There you go.

Okay, anyway, hope this wasn't too boring for most of you. I don't buy for a second the explanation that this was the best they could do with the masters, because I get results this good with some half-a** cobbled together crap from Best Buy. If I was working at BMG, I'd be ashamed of myself for putting this out, knowing what people had paid. If you want an example of an older show than MSCL that was mastered on videotape but still looks good, borrow someone's copy of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Even Season One's video quality is far beyond what they managed here. (Granted, the effects are cheesy as hell... :) I'm sure there are lots of others out there, as this is the worst DVD authoring I've ever seen.

All that said, I am still happy to have it, because I've worn out my tapes (and I'd written off my $100)...Jason, if you're still having trouble seeing the artifacting, get a copy to your friends at The Digital Bits. They'll tell you how shoddy this is.

Later all!

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Post by Maagic » Nov 14th 2002, 10:51 pm

I am by no means a professional photographer or anything, I'm just a fan of DVDs (and MSCL) and I saw nothing wrong with the DVDs so far. I just got finished watching the pilot and it was just as great as I remember seeing it for the first time. The menus are ok... I don't really mind the font either. I was kind of surprised that they even put chapter selection in each episode... Dunno why I just wasn't expecting that. I'm having a marathon of sorts, but I'm doing them one episode per day instead of back to back (to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back) :)
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Post by So-Called Loon » Nov 15th 2002, 3:03 am

tabonyhl wrote:By the way, for those of you who aren't videophiles, it's pretty much impossible for this (the artifacting, at least) to be a problem exclusive to only a few sets.
I have no expertise in Video, other than a basic understanding. Although i knew some MPEG frames consisted only of change information, i did learn a couple things from your post. I certainly knew if one set was messed up, the rest must be.
It is actually possible to pick out each I frame as it goes by while watching these DVD's. Look at a solid surface, or even at a portion of the screen that's pure black. Do you see a little jump of interference at a regular rate? There you go.
Hmm. I had noticed that, and more of a moire pattern than usual for high quality video, but i thought it seemed to get much better after the pilot. I must admit, though, that i had noticed those little jumps. I wasn't sure what they were since the other episodes did seem to look smoother, and it was while i was watching on my Mac, so i thought it may be an effect of the picture being blown up by the free DVD software.
All that said, I am still happy to have it, because I've worn out my tapes (and I'd written off my $100)
That's the same reason i'm not complaining much, although my videotapes are still in pretty good condition. Haven't watched them too much.
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Post by heater_05 » Nov 15th 2002, 3:06 pm

Well I started watching mine yesterday. Got to episode five, The Zit. I am afraid I have to agree with other posters here. The quality is pretty crappy. It seemd very pixelated. The font is very very stupid. The transition used for when you chose something form the menu is just plain nasty. Plus the artwork on the slipcases is so cheap. It looks like it was printed with a cheap bubble jet printer. Clearly it was a rushed job. I don't have the greatest equipment, I have made pleanty of my own DVDs with a Phillips DVD burner, from VHS tape. The stuff I made looks better than this so-called professional set. But, all in all I am just pleased to have it on DVD finally. I am looking forward to watching as many as I have time for this weekend. Which won't be too many. I gotta a lot of work to do. Plus I gotta go see Harry Potter.
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Post by Megs » Nov 15th 2002, 3:20 pm

At last, something that could be blamed on BMG, and not AU. Because surely the picture quality reflects on BMG, and not AU?
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comparison...

Post by smackey » Nov 15th 2002, 4:36 pm

Question for those who have the original 3 episode DVD and the new box set:
Would you say the quality of the new set is better, worse, or roughly the same as that of the original 3 episode DVD?

Thanks. Answers relative to the first disc will give me a point of reference. I ask only because I may cancel my DeepDiscountDVD order and just stick with my complete, self-recorded VHS tapes. :?

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Post by heater_05 » Nov 15th 2002, 4:51 pm

Personally I think the quality of the original 3 episode DVD is slightly better. I mean the quality is pretty darn awesome, its just not as good as I hoped it would be. I mean they easily could have run the footage through a quick color corrector and it would look so much better. I mean I have used After Effects filters and I know I could have cleaned up the pilot to look pretty good. I could have easily brought back some of the washed out colors. Also though remember, lots of shows pick a palette of colors to go with, more or less a style. I believe that MSCL's cinematography was definetly going for a muted color look. I can see this in all the episodes.

As far as canelling your order, don't do it. You need these DVD's. I could play these DVD's 100 times a day forever and they would always look the same. Not true for your VHS tapes. They will deteriorate and fall apart, and then you will have nothing, and you will have to pay top dollar for someone's used DVD set.
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Post by so-called customer » Nov 15th 2002, 5:28 pm

I doubt anyone will have to pay top dollar for a used set now that these are widely available. I wouldn't be surprised to see them on ebay for under $30 in a couple of months as all those who bought sets betting they would appreciate in value start dumping their excess stock.

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Post by vapspwi » Nov 15th 2002, 5:58 pm

heater_05 wrote:As far as canelling your order, don't do it. You need these DVD's. I could play these DVD's 100 times a day forever and they would always look the same. Not true for your VHS tapes. They will deteriorate and fall apart, and then you will have nothing, and you will have to pay top dollar for someone's used DVD set.
And you don't even have to play the tapes to have them deteriorate. They'll die just sitting on your shelf, actually. So if you plan on watching the show multiple times, or want to watch it again in a few years, the DVDs are worth it even if the video quality isn't the greatest (I haven't watched mine yet to comment on that).

JRjr

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Post by DoubleBilled » Nov 16th 2002, 8:20 pm

Why hasn't usually chatty Jason weighed in on this subject lately? Why doesn't he get the actual boob who made these discs on this board so he can answer our technical questions.

I haven't said anything like what I'm about to say yet, but after seeing the product, I HAVE to at least contemplate it.

I think this WHOLE thing was a snow job. I think Jason and Ross and BMG and AU were in on this mess together. It was the quickest, CHEAPEST way for them to maximize profits on a property they owned that wasn't doing anything. So they ran the show through the crappiest, cheapest authoring facility and sold the discs at a $100 premium. No ads, no reviews, no nothing. We had NO IDEA what we were getting into.

Why would ANYONE happily release this steaming pile of discs that I got? What was Jason 'checking' on that little marathon of his? I have since pulled out my video tapes made from the old MTV 'marathon' recorded on a semi-expensive Sony VCR at SP speed. My TAPE looks better than the DVD! End of story!

And I STILL need a refund!!

Thanks to Jason, Ross, AU, and BMG I can't sit down without wincing in pain for months!!! Way to be, guys!

db

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Post by Jason R » Nov 16th 2002, 8:54 pm

As I have already answered, this quality is acceptable to me. It is certainly no worse than the Star Trek set I just purchased. I'll be more than happy to argue over the quality, but there are many different views on this. Maybe my view is colored by the fact that I know this was originally captured on film and transfered to beta. We're not going to agree on this, so accept this as my final expression of opinion; one that I know you think is wrong.

Many people (those who have actually received them) have written to say that they are enjoying the discs, If you don't like it, return it or sell it on ebay. Since the masters are going back to Buena Vista in April, if they ever did anything with this it would probably be from the same masters. (Unless there is actually film that people don't know about, but Bedford Falls seemed to think that there was not).



DoubleBilled wrote:Why hasn't usually chatty Jason weighed in on this subject lately? Why doesn't he get the actual boob who made these discs on this board so he can answer our technical questions.

I haven't said anything like what I'm about to say yet, but after seeing the product, I HAVE to at least contemplate it.

I think this WHOLE thing was a snow job. I think Jason and Ross and BMG and AU were in on this mess together. It was the quickest, CHEAPEST way for them to maximize profits on a property they owned that wasn't doing anything. So they ran the show through the crappiest, cheapest authoring facility and sold the discs at a $100 premium. No ads, no reviews, no nothing. We had NO IDEA what we were getting into.

Why would ANYONE happily release this steaming pile of discs that I got? What was Jason 'checking' on that little marathon of his? I have since pulled out my video tapes made from the old MTV 'marathon' recorded on a semi-expensive Sony VCR at SP speed. My TAPE looks better than the DVD! End of story!

And I STILL need a refund!!

Thanks to Jason, Ross, AU, and BMG I can't sit down without wincing in pain for months!!! Way to be, guys!

db

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Post by DoubleBilled » Nov 16th 2002, 10:29 pm

Then if this is acceptable to you, you should be out of the DVD business.

But wait, you aren't in the quality aspect, are you? Just the "Setting Up", or "DealMaking" or whatever it is you do.

Well you certainly "set" me "up" and "made a good deal" for you and your partners. You charged me twice for a cheaply made, questionable product. Hell I'd hire you.

I've some old Hi-8 footage of my dog. Maybe we can get together and hash out a distribution deal.

Actually, I'm not mad at you so much as I'm mad at myself for falling for this. You were just making mo' money. Kudos.

db

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DoubleBilled, you're really wrong

Post by AngelaBee » Nov 16th 2002, 11:26 pm

DoubleBilled, you really don't know what you're talking about, and you have to quit blaming jason! jason has put his heart and soul into this project, he is not making much money off of it by any means, and btw, neither are bmg or au for that matter! you have to give it a rest, and keep your lame thoughts to yourself!
DoubleBilled wrote:Then if this is acceptable to you, you should be out of the DVD business.

But wait, you aren't in the quality aspect, are you? Just the "Setting Up", or "DealMaking" or whatever it is you do.

Well you certainly "set" me "up" and "made a good deal" for you and your partners. You charged me twice for a cheaply made, questionable product. Hell I'd hire you.

I've some old Hi-8 footage of my dog. Maybe we can get together and hash out a distribution deal.

Actually, I'm not mad at you so much as I'm mad at myself for falling for this. You were just making mo' money. Kudos.

db

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Post by tabonyhl » Nov 17th 2002, 12:09 am

Jason, I'm not angry with you and I'm certainly not going to argue with you about whether this DVD is the best quality that could be achieved from the existing masters (but I do think Buena Vista should stop stacking their masters on top of the microwave) :P

But, I've bought all of the Star Trek:The Next Generation that have come out this year. Don't want to be difficult, but there's simply no comparison between the two. The clarity of the Star Trek transfers are so crisp, it sometimes does a disservice to the special effects (you can see too much!) The MSCL discs feature color jumping, and artifacting throughout. I knew it was a bad sign when I put the disc in and the BMG Special Products logo was so far off center that it read BMG Special Product!

Anyway, I'm not sad that I bought this set, but I don't think that I would buy a "fan produced" set again, because there is nothing stopping someone from throwing a crappy transfer on a DVD and niche marketing it. I would like to see an independent review of this set by the Digital Bits or another objective reviewer who knows more about authoring than I. With all of these people saying they can't see anything wrong, I'm starting to wonder if it's just my eyes! Maybe they're so happy to see MSCL again, they're seeing spots!

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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Nov 17th 2002, 12:16 am

tabonyhl wrote:With all of these people saying they can't see anything wrong, I'm starting to wonder if it's just my eyes! Maybe they're so happy to see MSCL again, they're seeing spots!
I was actually wondering the opposite - I thought there was something wrong with MY eyes because I have watched six entire episodes and not noticed any problems, but I wholeheartedly admit that I am not a videophile or anything. I haven't seen any artifacts or white lines or any of the stuff that people mentioned, and I am fine with that!

I don't think that it's because I'm so happy to see the show again that I'm seeing spots. I don't know what to look for and believe me when I say that ignorance is bliss.

:D

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