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pgh kenny
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Locked threads & forums

Post by pgh kenny » May 16th 2004, 8:45 am

Feedback:

Obviously, the owners of this site have the right to operate it in any manner they wish. Having said that, I personally don't not believe that censorship and blanket rules that prohbit discussion of broad categories of topics reflect the spirit of what My So Called Life the show was all about.

MSCL.com may not have had a business relationship with certain parties, but like it or not it was a relationship. It is a part of the history of the fans and the legacy of the show and to issue a blanket policy on discussion of that is not something I find to be honorable.

If the censorship is the result of the opinion of paid legal counsel, that should be stated clearly as it would make the policy a little more understandable.

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Post by starbug » May 16th 2004, 12:33 pm

For what it's worth, I agree.

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Post by Sascha (sab) » May 17th 2004, 5:06 am

Your feedback is appreciated.

But this is not a question of finding a "honorable" solution nor reflecting the spirit of MSCL - it's a question of protecting us and this site from serious trouble. It is time to move on - the chapter "AU" is closed as far as mscl.com is concerned. We don't want to erase it from history nor deny it ever happened, but we have to leave it behind.

And maybe I should clarify: No posts will be edited or erased because someone mentions AU or Ross in the course of a discussion. Those are not "forbidden words" or something like that. But entire threads devoted to these topics are not longer welcome and appropriate at mscl.com. There are other places on the web where one can discuss AU/Ross Rojek related topics (e.g. anotheruniversesucks.com).


Sascha. (not speaking for the entire "core team" this time, but I think they agree)

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Post by pgh kenny » May 17th 2004, 2:16 pm

And to be sure, if I was financially backing or owned the site, who knows what kind of risk tolerance I would have. I can live with moving on.
Sascha (sab) wrote:Your feedback is appreciated.

But this is not a question of finding a "honorable" solution nor reflecting the spirit of MSCL - it's a question of protecting us and this site from serious trouble. It is time to move on - the chapter "AU" is closed as far as mscl.com is concerned. We don't want to erase it from history nor deny it ever happened, but we have to leave it behind.

And maybe I should clarify: No posts will be edited or erased because someone mentions AU or Ross in the course of a discussion. Those are not "forbidden words" or something like that. But entire threads devoted to these topics are not longer welcome and appropriate at mscl.com. There are other places on the web where one can discuss AU/Ross Rojek related topics (e.g. anotheruniversesucks.com).


Sascha. (not speaking for the entire "core team" this time, but I think they agree)

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There are a couple of truths (about locked threads)

Post by Greybird » Aug 31st 2004, 10:15 am

Locking threads because an entire realm of discussion is no longer germane (or has become dangerous, legally or otherwise) is one matter. I can see Sascha, et al., wanting to put the AU matter behind them -- though it would have made more sense to shut this off months earlier, if they were intending to do it anyway.

What bothers me is another reason for locking threads, that of deciding -- to entirely arbitrary degrees -- that one discussion "duplicates" another from the past. The possibilities of tangents, thread drift, and new ways of expressing an insight are being ignored or, in regard to newcomers, suppressed.

I said this in a much more thorough manner, though, in this posting, earlier today, and I'll refer the moderators and others to it.
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Re: There are a couple of truths (about locked threads)

Post by Sascha (sab) » Aug 31st 2004, 11:11 am

Greybird wrote:I said this in a much more thorough manner, though, in this posting, earlier today, and I'll refer the moderators and others to it.
And I responded in that thread too.
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Post by Greybird » Sep 20th 2004, 4:07 pm

I noticed that a thread in For Sale or Wanted was locked yesterday due to concerns (regarding the "Unofficial Soundtrack") about copyright infringement.

It had been displayed for nearly two years already! I find it curious that you're only noticing it now.

If you're this concerned about any such thread being seen as abetting potential infringement, you're not likely to be able to limit this action to locking the thread. You'd have to delete the thread entirely, along with all of the threads (still unlocked) to which it links for additional information.

Moreover, if you're taking the standard regarding "infringement" to this level, you'd also have to delete the "MSCL" episode transcripts and media archives (except, with the latter, the ABC publicity photos that had a general release), as well as the subtitle add-ons for the DVDs. The custom DVD covers would also qualify, but they've already been removed.

This standard would also make moot any discussion of or assistance to the effort to transcribe the Bonus Disk interview with the MSCL creators, now going on (I'm taking part), which is also under copyright.

Many other threads, such as one offering the OLS bootleg "MSCL" tapes for sale, also deal with matters involving potentially infringing material.

Do you, I wonder, want to take lockings or deletions to that level? Rather than simply posting a prominent disclaimer? Stopping discussion of the Unofficial Soundtrack, without removing the rest of this material from the site, is somewhat pointless and contradictory.
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Post by Sascha (sab) » Sep 21st 2004, 5:05 am

Greybird wrote:Stopping discussion of the Unofficial Soundtrack, without removing the rest of this material from the site, is somewhat pointless and contradictory.
I know that. We're walking on a thin line between copyright infringement, "fair use" and providing an interesting and somewhat comprehensive resource for admirers of a great piece of art. It's a bumpy road, but we're trying our best.
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Post by Greybird » Sep 21st 2004, 10:28 pm

I know you're trying your best, Sascha, and I don't mean to look like I'm dumping on your efforts. I've always been glad for what MSCL.com has been doing. It's hard to know what to do, though, about even discussing potentially infringing efforts, if the guidelines are contradictory.

I guess it's still a mystery to me as to why you'd target a semi-buried thread about the Unofficial Soundtrack, when transcripts are openly referenced in the site index. Are you doing so out of pragmatism -- in thinking, say, that the RIAA (about music) is less likely to be lenient than is Bedford Falls (about words)? Or did you receive a music copyright holder's complaint? Either would be an intelligible reason for such a distinction, but I haven't seen one offered here yet.

If you might end up deciding, say, a year from now and without a standard, that the transcript of the Holzman et al. interview is a promotion of copyright infringement -- why, I have to wonder, should I take time now to help in transcribing it? I'm doing so for my own reasons, but not knowing whether you'll keep it posted here or not doesn't really help.

My own strategy is to immediately copy every such item that is posted here, in fear of its being pulled. I did that with GaryEA's DVD covers, even before buying the DVDs, and even though I might not print them. (I got the episode transcripts, o'course, a decade ago on the So-Called List.) I wouldn't normally feel so driven, but I don't know, frankly, what you will want to one day remove (or restrict) and what you will not.
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Post by Sascha (sab) » Sep 22nd 2004, 5:20 am

Greybird wrote:I guess it's still a mystery to me as to why you'd target a semi-buried thread about the Unofficial Soundtrack, when transcripts are openly referenced in the site index. Are you doing so out of pragmatism -- in thinking, say, that the RIAA (about music) is less likely to be lenient than is Bedford Falls (about words)?
Partly, yes. Copying CDs (even if they're self-made compilations) and DVDs is something that is currently under heavy investigation by many law enforcement organisations. We can't establish the impression that MSCL.com offers a place to sell illegal copies of soundtracks or DVDs. Still, I want to let people know that there is such a thing as an unofficial soundtrack (and maybe even a way to get it) - so I only closed the (recently revived) topic but didn't delete it. I know that's contradictory, but that's the thin path I chose.

Transcripts and other things like the use of the "My So-Called Life" logo on fan sites fall right now under a somewhat less noticed and discussed area of copyright law, partially covered by the "fair use" concept (in the case of fanfiction). There are tenthousands of other TV show fan sites out there and there're in the same dilemma as we are. So far -- except for some "Star Trek" sites -- they are frowned upon by lawyers, but in most cases they're silently tolerated as long as they don't go commercial or sell illegal copies or call themselves "official".

If you might end up deciding, say, a year from now and without a standard, that the transcript of the Holzman et al. interview is a promotion of copyright infringement -- why, I have to wonder, should I take time now to help in transcribing it? I'm doing so for my own reasons, but not knowing whether you'll keep it posted here or not doesn't really help.
I can't promise you that we will never remove it. I can promise you that I'll always try to keep stuff available as long as possible. But a call from BF would be enough and the script (or any other content on the site) is gone. They could probably easily shut down the entire site (maybe except for the forum) in an instance - but luckily we haven't caused a blip on the radar of Bedford Falls' lawyers yet and I can only hope that the Powers That Be at BF don't want us to be gone - that's why we reiterate over and over again: "We don't want to make money with your art, we just want to appreciate the show".

Another rule of thumb is: as soon as it's available for sale (legally) in stores, it will be removed from the site. So if Bedford Falls ever decides to publish a shooting script book (like the producers of "Freaks and Geeks" recently did for their show), we'd pull the scripts from our site.

My own strategy is to immediately copy every such item that is posted here, in fear of its being pulled. I did that with GaryEA's DVD covers, even before buying the DVDs, and even though I might not print them.
There's nothing to say against that. I even recommend everyone to save interesting stuff from the site on their private hard drives - there's no guarantee that it'll be here forever. I do the same with other sites. That's not just because of the increasing tightening of copyright laws around the globe (or like in Gary's case - other people making money with his stuff on ebay, with his name left on the covers so that it seems like he's making money off it). What if our server goes up in flames, what if Mike or I (or Steve, who pays for the domain) have an accident etc... Just like Solvi's and Kori's invaluable MSCL sites disappeared from the web or the video section at clairedanes.com stopped working from one day to another for various reasons - the same could happen to any website. I'm doing everything I can to avoid such fate for mscl.com (I really want to be here for the twentieth and 30th anniversary of MSCL) and I could host it in an emergency situation on my own server, but there's always a risk.

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Re: Thanks for helping

Post by Jody Barsch* » Apr 26th 2006, 6:32 pm

kimwong1955 wrote:Thanks for helping me with JobQueen and China Sales Reps. I'm with them 2 month now and they, thanks god, really pay. I'm already getting more than 5000 per month and looking for more coworkers. If you change your mind let me know. You can use my promotion code to sign in.
I realize I've said this before, but ... I'm confused. Is the forum getting spammed or am I just out of the JobQueen and China Sales Rep MSCL loop? :?:
Kickstart The Riches movie!

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Post by SanDeE* » Apr 26th 2006, 6:56 pm

looks like spam to me. Spam spam bacon n' spam.
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Post by Natasha (candygirl) » Apr 26th 2006, 7:47 pm

You didn't know about the members only China Sales Rep forum?

:mrgreen:

Sorry about the spam - I'll take care of it!
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You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

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Post by Sascha (sab) » Apr 27th 2006, 6:20 am

Yeah, those spammers are getting more and more annoying. Luckily, only a very few manage to slip through our registration checks.
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