Quality of DVD picture

This forum is for questions/discussions about the now sold out first DVD box set by BMG / AnotherUniverse.
Rickie Love
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Post by Rickie Love » Nov 11th 2002, 10:00 pm

Well F*CK ME!!! :evil:

I really hope problems mentioned are not universal - no offense Doublebilled, none of us deserve a shitty product, especially after all the time and money we all spent. Man, I just want this OVER.

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! :evil: :evil:
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Post by Mold E. Peaches » Nov 11th 2002, 11:32 pm

GordLacey wrote:
Minerwerks wrote:Even as recent as the first two seasons of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" did shows edit on non-high definition video, leaving the possibility of picture improvement far behind. Check out the first season of "Buffy" on DVD. Very dark and muddy with a soft shifting grain that comes from video processing at the time of the original edit.
Buffy was also shot on 16mm which contributed to the crappy look of the DVDs. Sex & The City Season One has the most grain I've ever seen on a DVD and it was also shot on 16mm.

Gord
Gord,
I agree completely on the Sex And The City Season 1....I was really dissapointed in the picture quality, but the quality of the material surpasses it, and I can overlook it. But Seasons 2 and 3 have improved. Did they stop shooting on 16mm? Or are those just mastered better? I'm just curious......I also agree with the person that posted about them being able to make shows from WAY back look almost flawless. Have any of you seen The Mary Tyler Moore Show Season 1? I purchased it a while back, and all of the episodes I've viewed so far, surpass ANYTHING in quality than I could've expected.....Just my two cents...

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Post by DoubleBilled » Nov 11th 2002, 11:34 pm

To be honest, and to sound uppity as well, I'm a bit of a videophile. I have high end equipment to view DVD's on.

And to be somewhat positive....the sound is much better than I expected. The 5.1 sucks, though. The surrounds during music are much to loud, and the center is too soft. Sure, I could tweak my receiver settings, but why should I have to do that when my receiver settings are PERFECT for 99.9% of the other DVD's I own. I'm listening to the 'stereo' track, and it's much better. I have to DSP the heck out of it to get a center channel, but it winds up sounding better than the 5.1 track.

Jason, buddy, the only way you "can't see" what I'm talking about is if you are watching these things on a 2 inch window on your computer monitor or simply have your eyes closed. It's dissapointing, both the picture quality and your response.

I'll try to grab some screens of what I'm talking about and post them if I can find some free server space.

DB
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Post by Mold E. Peaches » Nov 11th 2002, 11:41 pm

And while we're on the subject of shows we'd like to see on DVD, I'd love to see a complete release of all of the Daria shows.....there's a petition online with 5000+ sigs....looks like they'd see that there's a market...when will the big companies learn to listen to us???

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Post by Jason R » Nov 11th 2002, 11:53 pm

please do post it, because I both my eyes and my tv are working fine. no idea what it could be.

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Post by DoubleBilled » Nov 12th 2002, 12:11 am

Well SCREW that idea. My DVD drive can't play the discs past the OPENING! It freezes every time on the part of the opening sequence where Angela is cuddling up to mom in bed.

The Pilot plays fine because it doens't have the opening on it (I guess thats the reason.) But since the Pilot is so crappy and washed out I don't see what I'm bitching about (the music staff) on that episode (expect for the artifacts and general bad look).

So I guess we have to call it even on that, Jason. But look out, I'll get you yet, Rosenfeld.

But you have to admit you see all the compression artifacts, right? And the fades in and out of the commerical breaks are weird, too. Like they were chopped up, not finessed to a fade. I guess a 40 inch tv does that to you, huh? What are you watching this stuff on? Anyone? Anyone? What are your video quality reviews?

Sigh. I will NEVER order and pay for something before I read the reviews from trusted sources.

DB

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Post by Minerwerks » Nov 12th 2002, 12:18 am

But the other 18 eps look almost as bad. What is with the 5 line 'Music Staff" running throughout the picture? You can really see it on dark scenes. It's like I'm watching a DVD through bad digital cable. PLEASE explain that to me!
This sounds an awful lot like a Macrovision artifact. This copy protection method uses super-white bursts in the blanking just outside the edge of your monitor, but still part of the signal. I've seen MANY instances where these white blocks create slightly tilted white lines at the top left of a screen. This is either the fault of having a VCR in-line between the DVD and TV, or having a monitor that doesn't like the copy protection.
= Derek =

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Post by Jessica Popsicles » Nov 12th 2002, 12:18 am

Hmm. I watch my stuff either on my iBook or my 19 inch TV with my $99 DVD player. :) No super equipment here.

I haven't received the DVDs yet, but I have a feeling they won't look bad to me. Probably will seem the same as anything else I own.


Anyway, even if the MSCL set looks bad I don't think it's going to bother me. I almost paid for copies of someones taped from TV set at one point because I wanted to see it bad enough.
+it can't be all that hard if you can sum it up in a postcard.

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DVD looks like Crap!

Post by streakybcn27 » Nov 12th 2002, 12:30 am

Ok, I know that the picture in the Pilot is bad, that can be forgiven, but I think some one said it earlier, DID they just run the shows through AVID and burn them on a DVD-R for mastering? He was NOT kidding when he said that it would look great on a computer moniter running at 300x200. THIS IS NOT DVD quality by any stretch of the imagination This looks like BMG did absolutely no work in trying to clean up the picture. I mean the colors look horrid on the Pilot, ok we all knew that but the rest still has digital arifacting around most of the credits and some darker scenes. At 99 bucks i think my VHS tapes I taped off MTV years ago might just look better.

I have been quiet through the WHOLE thing. I have not posted on this board but have read all the reponses and have kept up with the whole story of the delays and dealing with Ross and the over seas company making the lunch boxes. I kept quiet because everyone was already saying what i was going through and I knew I am not alone. BUT THIS IS IT!!!! Jason, I commend you for triyng to deal with all the BS and thank you for working on the project. I was one of the first people to lay down my cash back in like Feb or March for this thing and have waited and waited and waited like everyone else and this is the product they put out...To hell with the lunch box (I do really want the bonus disk). Its nice to have the whole set, I just wish they would have actually put more effort into the finished product, GOD KNOWS THEY HAD THE TIME!!!!! :evil:
Finally Got the DVD's and they look like crap!!....Bring on the Bonus Materials!

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Post by Jason R » Nov 12th 2002, 12:31 am

Interesting point, Derek.

Perhaps the check discs did not have Macrovision added yet? I was not watching on a huge TV, but I viewed on both a 29" TV and on my monitor. The monitor resolution allowed me to pick up details that I could not see on the TV due to the higher resolution.

I'm not doubting that double billed is unhappy, as I do know there were limitations due to the digibeta masters, but maybe if his equipment is better than mine he is seeing things that I cannot see. I know it is not going to measure up to a progressive-scan image that you might see on some more recent programs.

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Post by Mold E. Peaches » Nov 12th 2002, 12:46 am

DoubleBilled wrote:Well SCREW that idea. My DVD drive can't play the discs past the OPENING! It freezes every time on the part of the opening sequence where Angela is cuddling up to mom in bed.

The Pilot plays fine because it doens't have the opening on it (I guess thats the reason.) But since the Pilot is so crappy and washed out I don't see what I'm bitching about (the music staff) on that episode (expect for the artifacts and general bad look).

So I guess we have to call it even on that, Jason. But look out, I'll get you yet, Rosenfeld.

But you have to admit you see all the compression artifacts, right? And the fades in and out of the commerical breaks are weird, too. Like they were chopped up, not finessed to a fade. I guess a 40 inch tv does that to you, huh? What are you watching this stuff on? Anyone? Anyone? What are your video quality reviews?

Sigh. I will NEVER order and pay for something before I read the reviews from trusted sources.

DB
Sorry, not all of us are lucky/rich enough to own a 40 inch TV. Trust me, I'd love to have one, but you are putting off the kind of snooty effect like you're better than everyone that you can see these "artifacts". I mean, what do you expect??? Just be happy that you have the series, if you're not, then just return it and go back to your old VHS tapes that will eventually wear out and break. I'm not trying to be smart or anything, but I feel like this is gonna turn into another rant-fest. We've had enough of those. Granted, there was real reason for most of them, but this is just being picky. I consider myself an audio/videophile, but I take what I can get. Unless there was a better version avaliable out there, there's no reason to complain.

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Post by DoubleBilled » Nov 12th 2002, 12:51 am

Don't use the recent programs excuse. What was All in the Family, I Love Lucy, and Mary Tyler Moore shot on? HD-Digital? Those look better than MySo Called Life.

Jason maybe you can get some words from the actual makers of the DVD, the actual encoders, authors, whatever.

When this set starts coming out through normal legitimate channels, then the reviewers will start reviewing it. Then the nasty truth will come out.

As it is, this set is worth $20.00.

Now bear in mind, my 'music staff' isn't bright white lines or anything. You can't see it 90% of the time. It's just the 10% you can see it that burns my ass. It IS like a ghost image. A ghost image of a music staff, taking up about 60% of the screen.

[sarcasm] I guess we just have to realize that the source recording of MSCL was tweaked, retouched, filtered and cajoled to the max by the DVD authoring company. We should be grateful it comes in color.[/sarcasm]

*sigh*

DB

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Post by Jason R » Nov 12th 2002, 12:53 am

Fetus,

If the old films were still available, it would be ideal to remaster them. The technology today is obviously better, and a large TV will certainly magnify it. Even a computer monitor will magnify it if you are up close. Computer monitors just have very, very good resolution.

However, there were no films to remaster from (thus no outtakes, bloopers, etc). However, I don't know about the "music staff" artifacting. I didn't see it. And I stared at the screen for 16 hours straight.

All I know is that from my normal viewing distance I thought it looked very good. I did note that the pilot was still washed out looking, and I also thought the sound was very good.
Recovering Fetus wrote:
DoubleBilled wrote:Well SCREW that idea. My DVD drive can't play the discs past the OPENING! It freezes every time on the part of the opening sequence where Angela is cuddling up to mom in bed.

The Pilot plays fine because it doens't have the opening on it (I guess thats the reason.) But since the Pilot is so crappy and washed out I don't see what I'm bitching about (the music staff) on that episode (expect for the artifacts and general bad look).

So I guess we have to call it even on that, Jason. But look out, I'll get you yet, Rosenfeld.

But you have to admit you see all the compression artifacts, right? And the fades in and out of the commerical breaks are weird, too. Like they were chopped up, not finessed to a fade. I guess a 40 inch tv does that to you, huh? What are you watching this stuff on? Anyone? Anyone? What are your video quality reviews?

Sigh. I will NEVER order and pay for something before I read the reviews from trusted sources.

DB
Sorry, not all of us are lucky/rich enough to own a 40 inch TV. Trust me, I'd love to have one, but you are putting off the kind of snooty effect like you're better than everyone that you can see these "artifacts". I mean, what do you expect??? Just be happy that you have the series, if you're not, then just return it and go back to your old VHS tapes that will eventually wear out and break. I'm not trying to be smart or anything, but I feel like this is gonna turn into another rant-fest. We've had enough of those. Granted, there was real reason for most of them, but this is just being picky. I consider myself an audio/videophile, but I take what I can get. Unless there was a better version avaliable out there, there's no reason to complain.

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Post by Jason R » Nov 12th 2002, 12:57 am

Here are the bitrates, thanks to Enrique Chamorro:

Time Bit Rate
Disc 1
48:00 5.57
47:12 5.56
47:10 5.68
Disc 2
47:30 5.46
47:06 5.45
47:54 5.46
47:08 5.45
Disc 3
48:02 5.45
47:22 5.17
48:12 5.45
48:06 5.46
Disc 4
47:36 5.46
47:52 5.17
47:38 5.45
48:44 5.16
Disc 5
46:22 5.46
47:12 5.45
48:28 5.46
47:42 5.45

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Post by So-Called Loon » Nov 12th 2002, 3:24 am

DoubleBilled wrote:And I can guar-en-damn-tee you it's not my equipment.
Well SCREW that idea. My DVD drive can't play the discs past the OPENING! It freezes every time on the part of the opening sequence where Angela is cuddling up to mom in bed.


I wouldn't make claims that sure. Looks fine on my 27" tv. Maybe your equipment isn't as good as you thought. My DVD/CDR-W drive plays them just fine as well.

The video quality does get significantly better after the pilot. Looks good to me considering it's an 8 year old show that probably nobody ever expected to get out of the vault until 2040 when the Academy Awards are having a Claire Danes retrospective segment.


I'll have to see what happens when i play it on my sister's 60 inch digital with 5.1 sound. I will also test it on a friend's $20,000+ projection TV if possible. He's not in town a lot.
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