MSCL.com

I snuck a peek at the DVD last night. Maybe it's me, but especially in the pilot the color quality seems a bit off. Too much contrast; the blacks are too black, and all the colors seem thin and bleached out of the picture.

Maybe this is endemic to TV transfers onto DVD? I looked at other episodes and they seemed a bit better, but I was wondering if I was getting used to the visuals. Has anyone else had this gut response?

The pilot has always been off. That is how the master looks. Much has been written about it in old reviews. There is almost a greenish tint (reds seem to be washed out).

Videophiles i guess?

I thought it looked okay except for maybe the color being a bit wonky.

Jason Rosenfeld wrote:The pilot has always been off. That is how the master looks. Much has been written about it in old reviews. There is almost a greenish tint (reds seem to be washed out).

Jason, would you happen to know if the Ep. 1-3 disc in the box set was produced from the same masters that were used for the original DVD, or did they re-do these eps along w/ the rest? Just curious...

Cap'n Fool

There was a time when TV shows were finished on film, up to say the late 80s, and if you ever wanted to remaster, you could go back and use the latest transfer technology to get the best picture from an edited piece of film (see Artisan's BEAUTIFUL transfers of "Twin Peaks" to see how this can work out well).

Well, in the early 90s, everybody started transitioning to video. They would transfer all the dailies to broadcast tape and then cut on tape. The only way to improve the picture would be to find all the original negatives, have them transferred to tape again and re-edit the show AGAIN to match the original edits.

Broadcast tape then was GOOD, but not nearly as good as what we have now. There are a lot of shows I love that will forever be doomed to fair to middling picture quality because they only exist on outdated video tape. "Max Headroom" is a glaring example.

Even as recent as the first two seasons of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" did shows edit on non-high definition video, leaving the possibility of picture improvement far behind. Check out the first season of "Buffy" on DVD. Very dark and muddy with a soft shifting grain that comes from video processing at the time of the original edit. No way to fix these problems without redoing the whole show from scratch.

EDIT: And in case you hadn't guessed, digging up original footage, re-transferring to tape and re-editing is too cost prohibitive for probably any TV show coming to DVD. And if any of the footage was thrown out, lost or destroyed, forget it. There's not much reason for anyone to keep that stuff once the show is finished in editing. This is probably why there was no possibility of outtakes on the MSCL set, because they likely don't exist anymore...

Minerwerks wrote:Even as recent as the first two seasons of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" did shows edit on non-high definition video, leaving the possibility of picture improvement far behind. Check out the first season of "Buffy" on DVD. Very dark and muddy with a soft shifting grain that comes from video processing at the time of the original edit.

Buffy was also shot on 16mm which contributed to the crappy look of the DVDs. Sex & The City Season One has the most grain I've ever seen on a DVD and it was also shot on 16mm.

Gord

Minerwerks wrote:Broadcast tape then was GOOD, but not nearly as good as what we have now. There are a lot of shows I love that will forever be doomed to fair to middling picture quality because they only exist on outdated video tape. "Max Headroom" is a glaring example.

I really liked Max. Are those actually out on DVD?

GordLacey wrote:Buffy was also shot on 16mm which contributed to the crappy look of the DVDs. Sex & The City Season One has the most grain I've ever seen on a DVD and it was also shot on 16mm.

Whoa! No way! I didn't know anything for broadcast was ever shot on 16mm. I thought that was strictly for film students and home movies.

I really liked Max. Are those actually out on DVD?

I wish! Let's get Jason over to Warner Bros. and get those ABC episodes out already!

so, was the pilot actually done on film, or tape? just wondering if anyone knew that.

sid_barrett wrote:so, was the pilot actually done on film, or tape? just wondering if anyone knew that.

Both. The pilot (as well as the rest of the series) was shot on film, which gives it that nice "film look." But the raw footage was then immediately transferred to videotape for editing & distribution, as Derek/Minerwerks described above. This seems to have been the normal process for TV production for quite awhile now (except of course for shows that are shot directly to videotape), although I think there are some newer digital processes which bypass the videotape during the editing phase.

Cap'n Fool (now playing: "The Madcap Laughs")

I am SHOCKED about the so-called video quality of these discs.

Were the original masters recorded to a hand held VHS deck?

No less than 45 min ago, the UPS man brought me my DVD's. As I have read and expected, the pilot looked like crap. Washed out, artifacts all over the place, etc.

But the other 18 eps look almost as bad. What is with the 5 line 'Music Staff" running throughout the picture? You can really see it on dark scenes. It's like I'm watching a DVD through bad digital cable. PLEASE explain that to me!

And I can guar-en-damn-tee you it's not my equipment.

If it weren't for the fact that I paid $200 for this damn set (so far) and the fact that this material will never be touched again, I would have sent this tripe back. "I Love Lucy" looks better than this on DVD, why can't a show from the 90's? Was there ANY work done on this series or did you just run it though and write it to disc? It looks like a damn MPEG on Windows Media Player. This title should not have ANY artifacts!!! Some scenes look fine and some scenes are grainy as hell!!! Why Why Why!!! Oh God please why can't I go back in time and save myself from this torture!!!

ARRGHHH this whole mess makes me want to fart in someones face!!!

(still) DoubleBilled

Not sure what you mean by music staff, I assume you mean ghost lines or something. None on this machine.

DoubleBilled wrote:I am SHOCKED about the so-called video quality of these discs.

Were the original masters recorded to a hand held VHS deck?

No less than 45 min ago, the UPS man brought me my DVD's. As I have read and expected, the pilot looked like crap. Washed out, artifacts all over the place, etc.

But the other 18 eps look almost as bad. What is with the 5 line 'Music Staff" running throughout the picture? You can really see it on dark scenes. It's like I'm watching a DVD through bad digital cable. PLEASE explain that to me!

And I can guar-en-damn-tee you it's not my equipment.

If it weren't for the fact that I paid $200 for this damn set (so far) and the fact that this material will never be touched again, I would have sent this tripe back. "I Love Lucy" looks better than this on DVD, why can't a show from the 90's? Was there ANY work done on this series or did you just run it though and write it to disc? It looks like a damn MPEG on Windows Media Player. This title should not have ANY artifacts!!! Some scenes look fine and some scenes are grainy as hell!!! Why Why Why!!! Oh God please why can't I go back in time and save myself from this torture!!!

ARRGHHH this whole mess makes me want to fart in someones face!!!

(still) DoubleBilled

Doublebilled WOW.

That truly truly sucks. SO glad I cancelled with AU, but now I wonder what MY set will look like when I get it. From what I've gathered, same maker all around??

Anyway, sorry, man.

Yup, they are all the same regardless of the vendor.