Jodie Barsh

Discussion and questions about the FanFiction section of MSCL.com. You can also post excerpts of your unfinished stories here if you're looking for feedback or ideas.
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grim4746
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Jodie Barsh

Post by grim4746 » Dec 4th 1999, 2:32 am

I was just reading a Jodie Barsh post on the english general discussion board and it reminded me of something that I had been thinking about. In his fanfiction Shobi had been exploring the Jodie Barsh issue but he has seemingly finished his writings. I'm not sure because I emailed him asking for a yes or no if he was writing more but I didn't get a reply. That's fine though, he clearly has no obligation. I would love to read more of his fanfiction but I completly understand why he might have decided he was done with it. I myself have been slowly developing some fanfiction. Though I have a feeling Tracey has lost faith in me. At any rate I would love to read something about Jodie Barsh so i was wondering if anyone knew of any exsisting fanfiction that explores the Jodie Barsh issue. Please let me know.

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by worldsapart » Dec 10th 1999, 7:17 pm

I haven't lost faith in you =). I've been pretty busy myself and haven't gotten much work done on our story....though maybe during the holiday break we can get something actually written. I've only worked on it a little since we last emailed, so I've forgotten most of what we discussed. I'll have to go back and review the old emails.

As for Jody Barsh....that definitely could be an interesting story. I'm not sure what direction I would take that as a writer, but I'd be curious to know what direction others would take it.

Tracey

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by Jack » Dec 10th 1999, 9:39 pm

I think it would be interesting to write a story that revealed that Rayanne slept with Jodie's boyfriend.
Talk about foreshadowing, this would make the comment in the pilot more meaningful than ever.
Though parallel to the Rayanne/Angela storyline, what would make this interesting is that it reached
a final conclusion. Their friendship is over, absolutely over. One direction I think you could take it
would be to show a darker side as a result. With Angela, her relationship with Rayanne seemed
necessary to expose her to a different reality, a different side of life. And Angela ultimately seems
better for it. It seemed like she was outgrowing Rayanne even before the Betrayal, and even though
there was the transgression, the emotional effect, which made her appear and act like Rayanne,
making a play for Corey, basically "loosing it" if only momentarily, she will recover and do just fine
and be better off for it, if not because of it. In the pilot, she comments that she started hanging
around with Rayanne and that if she didn't she would, like die, or something. She was a puppy
following Rayanne around doing what Rayanne wanted to do. By the episode "The Weekend",
Angela's calling the shots. She stops Rayanne at the door and demands the key back. She's
outgrown her. And if the friendship is ever repaired, and I think it could be, it'll be on Angela's
terms. Rayanne will have to apologize, and probably do a little penance. Rayanne will be the
one following Angela around, doing what she wants to do.

Now back to Jodie Barsh. The Jodie storyline could take a darker route. Maybe Jodie comes
from an extremely disfunctional family or a broken family. Maybe she does not have the support
framework that Angela has (even though Angela might not realize it, her family unit is pretty
stable, and her childhood friends, Brian's and Sharon's families are pretty stable. This gives
her strength and will ultimately help her growth into a relatively healthy adulthood. Yeah, I know
I'm supposed to be talking about Jodie.) Okay, Jodie could be the living embodiment of the
so-called angel ("just a roll of the dice, and she could be me...") and Rayanne's betrayal ruins
her. Drugs, alcohol, promiscuity (all the things that make life worth living, just kidding, just
kidding, jeez). You might be thinking that's ridiculous for her to react that way or take that
great of a fall. But think about it. Look how Angela reacted. Now, take a person from a broken
or dysfunctional family. Maybe she didn't have many or any real friends, and she meets
Rayanne. And maybe she concludes that Rayanne is her absolutely best friend in the world,
her confidant. Then she meets a guy, at a party, and is completely taken by him (like Angela
with Jordan, obviously). This guy responds to her and she believes she's found love. Now
she has friendship and love, something her family wasn't giving her. Then she's betrayed
by "them". And it's over. She's gives up on life. She goes down a self-destructive path of
despair. I think this is very believable, the highest suicide rate is amongst teens and I think
that's because (having been one once) it's easy for a teen to feel alone and powerless and
perceiving absolutely no...way...out! So in some respects, this storyline could play as a
"What if..." or a parallel-universe-type symbol of what could have happened with Angela.
And the sky's the limit on how you want to tell the story. It could take place in the past,
about a year before Angela meets Rayanne. And what's interesting about that is our main
MSCL cast could be secondary characters in the Jodie Barsh storyline, with Angela and
and Brian being very far removed if in it at all. Rayanne would be towing Jodie around to
an endless string of Tino's parties. Jordan would be there, Shane would be there. So would
Tino, but we'd still never see him. Another way to tell the story would be to place it in
normal continuity. Angela would meet her and bond immediately because of their common
experience (Jodie might be hesitant because maybe she doesn't trust anyone). But they
could eventually become friends and Angela (maybe unbeknownst to both of them) becomes
her salvation. She guides her away from her self-destructive path. Hmmm...now that I
think about it, Jodie sounds a great deal like Rayanne. Interesting. Jodie starts out like
Angela, then becomes like Rayanne (which is what Angela wants to be) and then it takes
someone like Angela to save her from herself (which is what Angela sortof tried to do with
Rayanne. I guess it's harder with Rayanne because she's always been the way she is.)
Well anyways, that's one possible take on it. Okay I'm done. I'll shut up now.

your fellow MSCL friend,
Long-Winded Jack (Long-Winded is my Indian name)

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by worldsapart » Dec 10th 1999, 10:09 pm

Wow, Jack. You never cease to amaze me in your ability to write a WHOLE LOT and yet still remain coherent throughout the whole thing. I have to say that your take on Jody Barsh is very cool- you should write something for the fan fic page, you seem to have a knack for the story...and you could make it long. =) No seriously, you should write it out...it could have some very interesting parallels (like you were discussing) and would be an excellent companion piece to the show.

Tracey

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by grim4746 » Dec 11th 1999, 2:06 pm

Jack, I have to agree with Worldsapart. While reading your post all I could think was that with your amount of insight into both the show and human nature (I tried not to sound trite but I think I've failed) you should definitely write a story. I'm sure a lot of people would want to read it. I mean everyone loves reading your posts I'm sure we'd all go crazy over an entire story.

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by Jack » Dec 13th 1999, 5:06 pm

Tracey and Grim,

Thank you so much, I'm very flattered by your comments. I will seriously consider writing a Jodie
Barsh story. I have ideas brewing and it would most likely be a companion piece (as Tracey
mentioned) that takes place during Freshman year, before Rayanne and Angela start hanging out.
And it would probably be in the form of a short story or novella as opposed to a script. If I do move
forward with this, I'd like to send the first draft to you two for review and suggestions. My biggest
concern would be dialogue because, Grim, regardless of your thoughts on my insight (which
I thank you immensely for your kind words), I'm not, nor have I ever been, a teenage girl. To boot,
I was so geeky back in those days that I hardly interacted with teenage girls. It was so bad that if
I had a conversation with one, I'd THINK I was having sex. Unlike today, where woman are throwing
themselves at me (yeah, right, and then he woke up). Okay, I better stop, I've devolved into
silliness. Anyways, I thank you two again for your kind and thoughtful words. Like I said, I'm
seriously considering it. Take care, talk to yous soon.

Jack

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by grim4746 » Dec 14th 1999, 4:29 am

Jack
I am glad you are considering writing a story. I would be thirlled to be one of the first to read it though I don't think you would really need the help. I was just reading your post on the "ending" board in the revival section and I found just one of the many examples of how you seem to effortlessly think and write in MSCL style. I'm referring to your mention of "the tiger of the lady". It was classic. So no matter what you decide about writing a story or not, you definitely don't have to worry about your ability. Writing for characters with a different point of view from your own is always a challenge but you would have a certain edge in that you would be quite familiar with at least Rayanne and you've already drawn the link between Jodie and Angela. While I do believe that you have never been a teenage girl, you do have a certain familiarity with the characters you would be dealing with.

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by worldsapart » Dec 16th 1999, 12:48 pm

Well, I HAVE been a teenage girl, Jack, so I would be very happy to read your story when you get it finished and tell you what I think (though I doubt you need much help). I'm a sucker for a good story anyway!

Tracey

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by lizardcub » Aug 17th 2001, 7:10 am

I *really* like the idea of Rayanne's having slept with Jodie Barsch's boyfriend. Here are some thoughts I have on the matter:

<p>1. That's a little different from how Sharon puts it in the Pilot--of course, it could be that Sharon, far removed from the story, is repeating an inaccruate, gossipicized account in which Rayanne was actually using Jodie for her boyfriend. Or maybe Rayanne was.

<p>2. One big difference is that while Jodie apparently didn't teach Rayanne any big emotional lessons (at least, as far as we can tell), the situation with Angela certainly did. By seeing how much she hurt Angela, Rayanne learned a lot about friendship and how much she mattered to Angela and vice versa. There needs to be some difference in the scenarios to explain why Rayanne didn't learn that from Jodie. It could be that they weren't as close, or that Jodie didn't take it as hard. But I have to wonder, if it made Jodie into a messed up, raving druggie, as Jack suggests, why Rayanne wouldn't have seen her ability to hurt people then.

<p>3. It apparently ended Rayanne's friendship with Jodie completely. At least, we never hear of her again. Yet I believe that Rayanne and Angela will eventually reconcile. This means *something* is different. Is it how close Rayanne and Angela were to begin with? Is it some aspect of Angela's personality that lets her be more forgiving? Is it a function of the growth Rayanne makes after seeing how she hurt Angela (and if so, will she then be able to reconcile with Jodie?)? Is it because Rayanne will try harder to fix things this time around, or because things will eventually work out between Angela and Jordan (one way or another) despite Rayanne, or what?

<p>4. If Rayanne did sleep with Jodie's boyfriend, do you think she was drunk at the time?

<p>p.s. Why didn't Angela ever investigate enough to find out what *did* happen with Jodie Barsch?

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by Ken » Aug 18th 2001, 5:10 pm

Wow, this discussion is really .... deep. (lack of vocab) :-) Jack's idea is great, hope that whole story is in the works somewhere.

This is going to sound a bit weird, but I was just listening to the first Tony Robbins' Personal Power tape for the first time like 2 hours ago(it's those self-improvement tapes), and he said that sometimes because of a person's low self-esteem/opinion of his/herself, we do inexplicable things to sabotage ourselves when things get "too good". I really agree with that and that seems like what happened to Rayanne when she slept with Jordan to me. It could be for the same reason that Rayanne sabotaged her friendship with Jodie (if it was true).

In response to lizardcub's comments,

1. Don't know. Either scenario seems likely, it being a gossip or Rayanne did use Jodie. Or maybe Jodie used Rayanne? But then Rayanne probably wouldn't be so open to hanging out with Angela?

2. Kind of feeling like Rayanne sometimes, I think Rayanne's experience with Angela might not have differed from her experience with Jodie. Though Rayanne realized she has caused a lot of pain for Angela, it's very difficult for her to realize what's to be done to repair the damage. I mean, Rayanne knew that Rickie is hurt everytime she took a turn for the worse, but yet she keeps doing it. It's difficult to tell whether she actually learn how to deal with the situation and be strong enough to act on it. Certainly, I think her own low esteem would need to change (good sign here when she and Sharon pointed out Angela's low esteem in Self-Esteem but then in On the Wagon, things look pretty grim again).

3. Yeah, I think Angela and Rayanne would reconcile as well. Though, in some of the fanfic, this seems to happen too easily.

The last question is a really good one I think. I don't know, maybe Angela thought Rayanne was too important to her initially and didn't want to ruin that. And after awhile, Angela knew Rayanne better and realized it didn't matter what happened in the past?

OK, that's all I have at the moment, great to hear more people discussing MSCL! It's been a bit quiet lately.

Ken

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by lizardcub » Aug 19th 2001, 9:27 am

I agree that I don't think Rayanne and Angela reconcile quickly or easily, though I do think it happens. And I see what Ken is saying about Rayanne not learning her lesson, but I also feel like this underestimates Rayanne in her pivotal scenes towards the end of Betrayal a bit. Rayanne is still, IMHO, the character who has grown the least, but she does seem to understand at the end of Betrayal what she lost in Angela's friendship. Rayanne keeps on hurting Rickie, but I don't think she ever considers she could *lose* him until On the Wagon, and I think their friendship is different after that, too. (Sorry I'm not being more specific on that point; I'll look for textual evidence in a bit.) So basically, I don't see why, if Rayanne had a similar thing with Jodie Barsch (I mean, not just sleeping with her boyfriend, but hurting a close friend in the same way), she wouldn't have learned her lesson pre-Angela.

Plus, if Rayanne did the same thing to Jodie, what is it that makes Angela forgive her (I know she doesn't in the show, but I believe she eventually will) when as far as we can tell, Jodie hasn't? I think Rickie's observation that Angela was doing something similar with regard to him and Corey would help, but obviously, that hasn't been enough at the end of In Dreams.

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by Jack » Aug 20th 2001, 9:21 am

Let's see...hmmm...maybe Rayanne wasn't all that close to Jodie; which
would make the situation different from Angela's. Maybe, just maybe,
there was a bit of role reversal. It's made clear in, I believe, "Guns and
Gossip" that Rayanne wants to 'be' Angela. This was said by Amber to
Patty right outside school after the big parents meeting. If she really
felt that way, this could make her bond, tightly, with Angela. But
perhaps in Jodie's case, it was Jodie who wanted to be like Rayanne
(in the sense she wanted to be carefree, popular with the guys, fun to
party with, get into all the cool places, etc.), so she followed Rayanne
around and deluded herself into thinking Rayanne was her friend,
whereas in reality, Rayanne really felt nothing for her; Jodie just became
the girl that hung around her (and maybe eventually became that
'annoying' girl that hung around her). But, like Angela, there was a guy
that Jodie was smitten with, and it was this guy that Rayanne slept
with. Jodie was then crushed and messed up! How does that sound,
people? Believable? Dramatic? Far-fetched? Yes, no, maybe?

Jack (the one who's amazed that an ancient post got a discussion
going)

P.S. Very good question as to why Angela didn't pursue finding out
about Jodie Barsh.

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Re: Jodie Barsh

Post by dTheater » Sep 8th 2001, 4:43 pm

Maybe the Jodie Barsh topic shouldn't be touched. It was one of those mysterious things that made MSCL so good. I mean, it might be as sacreligious as, say, having Tino physically show up. Or maybe not.

"Close your eyes, you can find all you need in your mind if you Take the Time" - Dream Theater

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Post by lithiumkat » Sep 8th 2003, 3:40 pm

hmm tough call, i think it would be interesting to explore on a jodie barsch thing if for no other reason its like parallel universe mscl thing or something lmao. but i see dtheaters point about it being like one of those things, like that is like not to be messed with, BUT in the same sense it would also be really interesting and probably easier in a WAY because you would be dealing with a whole nother story line and like set of events, the charachters are different in the sense that this would take place before even the first mscl episode and so the charachters havent grown and are very much different from the way they are now, especially angela, who would still be primarily hanging out with sharon and as someone said would be a VERY small part if any of a jodie/rayanne explanation fic. it would be easier in the sense that you wouldnt have to try *quite* so hard to make the charachters fit into what we know them as, because we didn't know them then and especially jodie, so you could make her how you percieve her as to have possibly been and not have to like match an image everyone has gathered of what is "jodie-like" or not from the show since we never saw her, so it would actually be probably very doable and have many possible directions and you would sort of have an easy way of getting somewhere without just drifting off into oblivion with the story because we already know how a rayanne jodie story would end (assuming one didnt change the *actual* episode mscl events that is) with their friendship being obliterated and with rumors flying of rayanne using jodie and then jodie basically dropping off the face of the planet of rayannes world. okay, so maybe i'm crazy but thats my 2 cents, you should do one jack, your ideas were awesome, and that stuff makes me wanna try one i love fan fics so much and have so many ideas but then i get like myself all discouraged and talked out of it cuz i read all the great ones on here and i convince myself that i shouldnt bother because i would like phenomenolly suck or something and then everyone would just think i'm like such a loser lol and would like hate me or something for tainting the wonder that is mscl. *phew* ok enough of that moving on.
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Post by dTheater » Sep 10th 2003, 9:54 pm

Lithium, I can tell you from my own experience and self-doubt that no matter how bad a job you think you're doing, there's always gonna be someone who likes your writing. So give it a shot, you might be surprised.
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