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War In Iraq
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 1:29 am
I've decided that there are just too many seemingly smart people on this board for there not to be any political discussions. And so, I'd be interested to know your thoughts on this subject. For or against? Why? Etc...
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 2:03 am
I think the reason that no one has brought it up is because when we "discussed" 9/11 it turned into a screaming match. It was ugly and very out of character for the normally respectful tone of our forum.
I would guess the other reason we haven't discussed it is that we know none of us will change anyone else's minds about the situation so it wouldn't be so much of a discussion as it would be "I think XXX" and "I disagree."
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 10:21 am
I try to keep my political views restricted to political discussions and sites. Discussing politics, like discussing religion, is a lose-lose proposition. I'd have to sit that conversation out. This is a happy site for me.
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 10:33 am
TomSpeed wrote:I try to keep my political views restricted to political discussions and sites. Discussing politics, like discussing religion, is a lose-lose proposition. I'd have to sit that conversation out. This is a happy site for me.
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 11:51 am
This is a happy site and while I am in disagreement with anyone who says Lifer's are incapable of mature,informed,meaningful discussion/debate, I wholeheartedly agree this is not the place for it. So please, anyone with the urge, go start trouble elsewhere.
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 12:30 pm
Yeah, I agree with Candgirl, K-Man and others. I think this is definately a thread for another forum. Those interested in doing so, there are plenty of on-line outlets for those with creative urges on this topic. I also think that will not trying to restrict speech that politcal discussions should be kept off this forum.
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 5:03 pm
LOL, ookay then people. (Sorry, I wasn't aware that political discussion always winds up going badly, or that the point of it is to change other people's views.)
K-man - Umm, I'm not sure if you are speaking directly to me, or what, but I wasn't trying to 'start trouble'.
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 5:12 pm
I am not saying that the purpose of political discussion is to convince other people that you are right and they are wrong. In an ideal world, yes, it is great to discuss political viewpoints in a calm, rational, and mature manner so that we can share our opinions with each other, but realistically a lot of the discussions end up turning into heated arguments full of finger-pointing, name-calling, and all sorts of other hyphenated stuff. Our experience is that it became very nasty very quickly. There's a reason for the adage "never discuss religion or politics" - people are very hard-headed and passionate about these things and often lose their senses of logic, open-mindedness, and perspective when discussing them.
Posted: Jan 24th 2003, 5:23 pm
^ Alrighty then.
Posted: Jan 25th 2003, 4:22 am
guess it is good thing i wasn't around for the 9-11 thread <eg>
i'll discuss anything so i dont really care...
Posted: Jan 25th 2003, 12:30 pm
We are not saying that you can't start a political discussion, we just know that it can evolve into something that isn't an intelligent, worthwhile debate. So for that reason, we would rather not even start one. But it is a free speech board, so to speak, so you can post whatever you like (within reason and good taste, obviously). Those of us who do not want to discuss it can choose to stay out of that thread.
It's good to see you back, Hollis. I haven't seen you post in awhile.
Posted: Jan 25th 2003, 4:50 pm
fnordboy wrote:i'll discuss anything so i dont really care...
Ok, I'll take you up on that. So anyone who wants to veer away from a possible heated debate, quit looking at this thread.
My viewpoint on this inevitable war in Iraq:
Motivated mostly by economy and possibly "finishing the job mu Daddy din't". But I assume the rest of the goverment is smart enough to hold Bush back if he was mearly trying to please his poppa.
The current situation, with Bush pushing to end inspections, and the international community wanting to wait, is really worrying me. The way I see it, if we go to war with Iraq, with the majority of the world against us, it can only be bad. A very big reason that 9/11 happened was because of our first war with Iraq. They were upset that US soldiers were on Muslim soil. Now if we go into Iraq before the inspectors have finished thier job, we will only be alienating more nations/people.
Like everyone says, there is no "smoking gun" right now. Sure Saddam's an evil man (yes, possibly more evil than RR
), and we need to keep him contained. We've been doing that very well the last 11-12 years. Two more months cannot hurt, it can only gain us more allies.
We should show that we are compassionate to the international communities viewpoints, and hold back for now. In any case, we should negotiate a date with them and say "Hey, if we get to this point, and Saddam still hasn't complied, will you join us in an attack?" All this wishy washy "we need to attack him soon" stuff, with no clear outline as to when things should happen doesn't look good.
Well, that's whats on my mind at the momet....there's more, but I can't think of it right now. I'm sure I've said enough to start something here.
Posted: Jan 25th 2003, 7:48 pm
andrewgd wrote:Motivated mostly by economy and possibly "finishing the job mu Daddy din't". But I assume the rest of the goverment is smart enough to hold Bush back if he was mearly trying to please his poppa.
See I don't necessarily agree that this has anything to do with 'revenge' or 'finishing the job'. I think that gives Bush too much credit. This is purely based on the need for oil, control, and world domination. Before 9/11 happened the US had planned to go in and take control of the oil fields in the area. A war was already planned in Afghanistan, Iraq is just the next logical step.
andrewgd wrote:The current situation, with Bush pushing to end inspections, and the international community wanting to wait, is really worrying me. The way I see it, if we go to war with Iraq, with the majority of the world against us, it can only be bad.
Agreed. And with the latest news that France maybe involved in a 'not so good' way, with disclosing some of the inspection points before public knowledge. Things can only get ugly.
I was glad to read in the paper today that the nation seems to be dropping in support for the war in Iraq. It was at 53% perent for it today as opposed to 60%+ last week. People are definitely opening their eyes and are not just blindly following our "leader", which we are all apt to do (because we are supposed to show support). I think the whole situation with N. Korea is showing what this is truly about. If there was such a concern with nukes and other mass destruction weapons then they should be our main focus. Saddam doesnt definitely have anything and he definitely does not have means to reach us. It is clear that N. Korea has them (or is doing a damn good bluff).
Well that is about I have in me since I am walking out the door. More later I am sure.
Posted: Jan 29th 2003, 2:51 am
Megs - Well thanks, that's very sweet of you.
I've been off in MSCL land...FINALLY!
Posted: Feb 15th 2003, 10:24 pm
i'm sad that us mscl ppl shy away from political off-topic dicussion... what's the point of always talking about things you agree about? one of the best ways of broadening your mind is to listen to people you disagree with.
in u.s.a., we've been told by some media outlets and even our own government that we are not patriotic unless we support war in iraq. whether you support the war or don't, that kind of mentality should really scare you if you believe in democracy!