Matrix Revolutions - Bigtime Spoiler Thread
Posted: Nov 9th 2003, 5:58 pm
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SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!
SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!
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1. This I really don't knowmglenn wrote: 1. How did the Oracle end up in a different body, what was the decision that she made that lead to that? I understand the orginal actor died but they spent so much time harping on it and it never made any sence.
2. What did her eyes have to do with anything? and why did you have to give them and not have them taken?
3. Why/How did Neo end up in the train station and then have to be jacked in at the end to fight Smith?
4. How was Neo able to see and effect the machines?
5. What was the point of the little girl? Why were her and her parents in the train staticn? I thought the train station what were you smuggled things out of the matrix.
Yeah I understood that but I don't get the "given not taken" part of it.andrewgd wrote: 2. I take it as he wanted her foresight. He could probably take them, but he was a bit sadistic anyways, and wanted Morpheus and Trinity to do it for him.
1. Point of the movie? $$$andrewgd wrote:Now, here's my questions:
1. What the heck was the point of this movie? Its purpose was to wrap up what had been set in motion in the second one...yet nothing was really wrapped up.
2. Did Neo kill Smith, or did the Deus Ex Machina kill him, through Neo?
3. Will the humans be content to let billions of other humans be used as batteries, even if they want to stay in the matrix? (I hope they make an Animatrix 2, to fill in all these little holes in the ending.)
4. Is Neo even dead?
1. This is unexplained in the movie, but it is explained in the game. The game has an hour of addition movie footage on top of digital scenes and the game itself. Included in that footage is the explanation of why the oracle changed form. Remember this is the first story to be told in multimedia, there is more to the matrix story than just the movies. I have not played the game, though I must admit I’m tempted to buy an Xbox just to do it. Consequently, I cannot answer the question fully, but I believe it has something to do with the “choices” she has made and Neo not choosing the “restart” door.mglenn wrote:1.How did the Oracle end up in a different body, what was the decision that she made that lead to that? I understand the orginal actor died but they spent so much time harping on it and it never made any sence.
2. What did her eyes have to do with anything? and why did you have to give them and not have them taken?
3. Why/How did Neo end up in the train station and then have to be jacked in at the end to fight Smith?
4. How was Neo able to see and effect the machines?
5. What was the point of the little girl? Why were her and her parents in the train staticn? I thought the train station what were you smuggled things out of the matrix.
And I see this as a huge part of the reason that this franchise failed and will be remembered as the films that could have been. Hey maybe like the matrix this is just the first version and we can suffer through 4 move versions before they get it right? You can not lock up a major portion of you plot inside a game. First you expect me to pay $30+ to see each movie, and then pay $50+ to get the connections so I can understand the the films? I don't think so!!!Nothingman wrote:1. This is unexplained in the movie, but it is explained in the game. The game has an hour of addition movie footage on top of digital scenes and the game itself. Included in that footage is the explanation of why the oracle changed form. Remember this is the first story to be told in multimedia, there is more to the matrix story than just the movies. I have not played the game, though I must admit I’m tempted to buy an Xbox just to do it. Consequently, I cannot answer the question fully, but I believe it has something to do with the “choices” she has made and Neo not choosing the “restart” door.
That would all be great if they ever explained if he was a machine or not. I think they hinted way to hard that he was not and then never told us either way. Second its great that the Oracle's eyes have such power, but WHY does he want them???? Just because, is not a valid answer. If he is a "program" from the machine world, why doesn't he go to the source to get the same power? After all the Oracle had to be created by another machine right, to study the human nature if I remember correctly from the Architects speach?Nothingman wrote:2. The oracle’s eyes allow her to see the future, or the world without time as she puts it. That is a great power which is why the Frenchman wants them. The Frenchman himself represents the worst of the programs in the matrix as well as the machines drive for more power and conquest. He is a representative for the will of the machines and their desires, only in a version that is inside the matrix. He has power and is free thinking, something the agents(or sentinels in the real world) do not. He may not appear to have a large influence on the plot but he represents much of what the machines are all about.
Oh I understand that, but the issue is that most people in the western parts of the world do not. If you want to use eastern philosophy as a major plot point you need to explain it and bridge the understanding gap. Neo was shown gaining this enlightenment in the first movie, but that was bridged by showing it as a hero's journey and in some respect the christ story. But in the last two movies that journey is just tossed asside and forgotten and we are left to try and follow a philosophical journey we don't understand. And I also believe that Neo's journey was not covered as well instead they opted to focus more on the "human condition" part of the story and make some statements there. Its the same reason that Return of the Jedi did not measure up to the the previous stories. They forgot that the story was a hero's journey that should be told and instead gave us ewoks (people of zion) and showed how they fought off their evil oppressors(sentinals/machines). The same holds true for the Star Wars prequels in that they are trying to tell a hero's journey plot. Except theres a major issue the hero's going to go bad and everyone knows it. And thats not a story people are looking for.Nothingman wrote:3&4. From what I can gather, Neo is able to affect the machines because he has moved into a higher state of consciousness that allows him to see the machines as energies, just as humans are, only contained in a different vessel. Smith touches on this as how he was able to infect Bane, and I think that is the key to understanding how Neo affects the machines. Another key is when Neo is blinded he can’t see nonliving objects like the Logos, but he can see Trinity, Bane/Smith, and the machines. I believe they are making the point that consciousness, spirit, or whatever you want to label a living thing’s orah, is universal regardless whether it is contained in a machine or a human body.
Hmm could it be a "construct" running on an old hovercraft hidden since a reboot of the matrix.... you see where this could go? Its all about Neo and where he came from and facing the choices he made. Why is it that in showing that the choices that the previous versions of The One made didn't work out for them and that Neo must make a different one, such a bad thing. Neo must still face the possiblity that he will fail to overcome Smith and the matrix and humanity will be destroyed. Neo's journey is the point of the story that we the audience wants to see. The Hammer and the kid and Zee and her shooter and everything else thats had nothing to do with Neo, thats the stuff that should be in the game and the bounus material. Sure it fleshes out the world and gives it depth but its had no bearing on Neo at all.Nothingman wrote:The train station is not part of the matrix, it is a place between the real world and the matrix world. When Neo is saved from the train station and is brought back to the real world he is jacked in to a chair. Though we never see them move his body from the table to the chair, we are left to assume in order to get him out the matrix once he leaves the train station he must be jacked in. Therefore, Neo still must be connected at the end of the movie to battle Smith.
Yes but how is she any different that the Frenchman's body guards? They are old versions of agents that have no purpose now. Her parents expressing emotion? What about Smiths talking to Morphous in the first film. He certainly had feelings to express on humanity and the matrix. The Oracle had lots of feelings too. So Sati's parents are willing to risk their lives to save her. How is that different than the Oracle risking her life to save all of humanity and machines? In my opinion the whole thing made Neo appear weak. Look at the fact that he had to see the Oracle within Smith before he allowed himself to be taken over. He had to be shown the way first before he would act. He was already more powerful than anything in the Matrix, ie. gravity, agents and even death. He was even able to control machines outside the matrix. Yet Smith, who was only that powerful because of code from Neo, was able to beat him down, and yet Neo was not able to see that he was only fighting himself until someone else showed him.Nothingman wrote:Sati is the “the last exile” and is a huge part of the ending, not just a little girl to give candy to. She exists only because her parents love her, she has no “purpose” or job beyond that. That is huge, prior to this the machines and programs only existed to fill a need or oversee the operation of something. She is also a result of emotion on the part of the machines. Her parents LOVE her. I believe that she represents the next evolutionary step for the machines A.I. A step that will ultimately lead to peace between humans and machines. Her parents have made a deal so that she can exist in the matrix without deletion, that is where they are taking her.
What it leads me to believe is that I should begin start writing more because I think I can do better than this. But hey thanks for the comments I do enjoy the discussion.Nothingman wrote:I'm sure I'll understand it better as time goes on, but hopefully this starts to answer your questions.
I hope your mallace is towards the Wachowski brothers writing, and not mine. When I first read it, I thought you were attacking me.mglenn wrote:What it leads me to believe is that I should begin start writing more because I think I can do better than this. But hey thanks for the comments I do enjoy the discussion
The cover art is pretty weak, you can check it out here:http://www.dvdtown.com/coverart/Matrix_ ... esc/11626/Warner Home Video has unveiled the release date and specs for the still-fairly-anticipated DVD. The DVD streets on April 6th, and will feature the following, well, features.
Revolutions Recalibrated - A behind-the-scenes overview that drills deep into the groundbreaking work that went into the final chapter.
CG Revolution - Explore the special effects arsenal and take an inside look at the making of the creatures and environs of the CGI-intensive third movie.
Super Burly Brawl - A crash course on the final Neo/Smith showdown with three multiple video streams: storyboards, behind-the-scenes and the final scene all running in sync.
Follow the White Rabbit - Watch the special features and select the White Rabbit icon to go further into the making of the film.
Neo Realism: The Evolution of Bullet Time - A closer look at how "Bullet Time" was taken to the next degree of madness.
Super Big Mini Models - The intricacies of filming in the world of models and miniatures.
Double Agent Smith - A look at what it took to make this incredible scene, including the work to replicate Hugo Weaving, with body doubles, lifelike mannequins, head casts and costumes.
Mind Over Matter: The Physicality of "The Matrix" - A look at what it takes for the actors and stunt people to perform the dramatic stunts of "The Matrix."
Future Gamer "The Matrix Online" - An introduction to the massive multi-player game "The Matrix Online," created by the Wachowski Brothers.
3-D Evolution - Transition to different levels of the Matrix to view concept art, storyboards, pre-visualizations and realizations for several elements in "Revolutions"
Before the Revolution - 3-D timeline of the concurrent story development occurring in the Matrix between the "Matrix" trilogy, "The Animatrix," and "Enter the Matrix."
Theatrical Trailer - Weblinks to the official "Matrix" website and "The Matrix Online" test site