MSCL.com

Did MSCL end too late? should the self esteem episode have been the last one?

althogh the best scene IMHO is the last one with angela jordan and brian, would we, the fans, have been more satisfied if the show ended with self esteem?
i am not saying 6 less episodes would have been better, i would just like opinions if it would have been better if SE was episode 19

Very interesting question.
I do not think that we would feel any more satisfied with the ending had the series ended with Jordan walking with Angela hand-in-hand down the hallway. By "Self-Esteem" the audience is already well-aware of the problems inherent in Angela's relationship with Jordan, and although it is thrilling to see him approach her as he does in the hallway, I doubt that we as an audience would have been satisfied that their relationship would progess in a healthy way that satisfied both characters.
It may have been an acceptable place to have ended for Patty and Graham, although I really like where they have ended up by "In Dreams."
Rickie has at least begun his path towards finding peace with himself, which ends (as far as what we see in the seres) with him saying out loud that he is gay; remember in the previous episode he says the feels that he belongs no where, with no one, and in "Self-Esteem" he finds a club that would have him as a member, a teacher who connects with him and tells him that "nobody should hae who they are" and signs his given name to join this club that would have him belong.
"Self-Esteem" also gives us a hint of the "new" Sharon -- Kyle-free and able to bond with Rayanne.
Brian, with Jordan and Shakespeare's help, identifies his feelings for Angela, but then stands aside as he wathces Jordan approach Angela after he has let her use him again.

Basically, I don't not feel that we would be any more at ease with the series if had ended after "Self Esteem" rather than after the Jordan-Brian-Angela love triangle (or whatever) was made more definite in "In Dreams", I do see how it might have been an accptable place to end the series for most of the characters.

This is an interesting question. In some ways, the later episodes (it feels weird saying this when there were only 19), seemed to veer off the predominant school theme of the early ones. For example, Principal Foster doesn't appear in any of the later episodes. It's certainly understandable that the show would focus on other things, but school seems to have less of an impact on the characters as it once did.

Ending the series after Self Esteem would have fit the Hollywood mold better, but this show was nothing if not atypical. The show does venture away from the school more as it goes on. But with the school well established in the story the show was then able to venture out and tackle larger issues that extend beyond the school. I love the school scenes, but there is only so much you can do with them until it turns into Saved by the Bell.

Nothingman wrote:but there is only so much you can do with them until it turns into Saved by the Bell.

So true!!!

Not that there's anything wrong with Saved by the Bell - especially at 3am!

The only episode that really felt out of whack for me was "Weekend". It didn't seem to flow from where the show came or where it would soon end.

On Weekend for a moment, while I very much enjoy Bill Blais' analysis of the episodes, I think he really misses the boat on that one. He reads waaay too much into it.

Although Saved by the Bell is a fine show, there's really no comparison between it and the first half or so of MSCL. What made these episodes so great are, IMHO, the importance the writers placed on ideas and the pursuit of knowledge and how school intersects with life. I can't remember another show dealing with these types of issues in a similar way. Don't get me wrong, I love the latter episodes of MSCL. However, I'm not sure that you can take these episodes and say that they were hands down better than any contemporary teenager focused shows. The only show that approaches the early episodes of MCSL is the Wonder Years.

u are so right i mean weekend what that all about??
it didn't even feel right. Brian Krakow going to a sex shop? that "it's too big" part were kyle walks in
it was just wrong - they totally wasted a show here.
being on this forum it wont come as much of a surprise that i watch episodes frequently but i gotta say that weekend is the one that leaves me most dissapaointed.

Weekend is a parody of the average teenager/adult sitcom. It does seem out of place, but that's the point the writers were trying to make.

BTW I'm not bashing Saved By the Bell, but we all know what level of intellect it took to sit down and watch it. MSCL was much smarter than that and doesn't compare, but given enough episodes in a restricted setting like a school, the storylines would have grown weeker and they would have become comparable.

Contrary how my posts in this thread might sound, I'm glad that the series didn't end earlier or in a more suitable place. I like or love all of the episodes. Even "Weekend" appeals to me. I can really see how this episode, instead of being a joke episode, could have lead to some future plot lines.

I don't buy that Weekend is a parody, or really anything other than what it was, a misstep. Maybe its the cynic in me, but I think thetalk about that ep having meaning to it, etc, is a bit of revisionist history. It did have a few moments, and hey, its still 1 of 19, but I still feel that it wasn't of the level or the quality of the rest. I'd love to hear what some of the creators would say about this.

BTW, wouldn't it be great if we could set up a live chat with Winnie, or whomever? Has that been tried? Anyone have any clue about doing that?

Well, Weekend was written by Paul Dooley, a writer not an actor and Winnie Holzman's husband, so aybe she let him have that one. Either way, I had no problems with that episode.

Nothingman wrote:Ending the series after Self Esteem would have fit the Hollywood mold better, but this show was nothing if not atypical. The show does venture away from the school more as it goes on. But with the school well established in the story the show was then able to venture out and tackle larger issues that extend beyond the school. I love the school scenes, but there is only so much you can do with them until it turns into Saved by the Bell.

i agree completely, and i like the later episodes better, and i don't think that there is a serious lack of the so-called school scenes

#ep 14-rayanne and the guidance counselour, i'm stretchin' here but heck
#ep 16- jordan and brian at tutoring, that's also a school scene, mr. katimsky's class
#ep 17 preparing for the play
#ep 19 mr.katimsky's class, the scene with the vocabulary

i think there were still plenty school stuff

Tomspeed wrote;

It's certainly understandable that the show would focus on other things, but school seems to have less of an impact on the characters as it once did.

i wouldn't go that far, the school has a greater impact on jordan now than it did in earlier episodes, and rayanne is playing emily in school play, and i think just the opposite, the school has more impact on the characters than it did in the earlier episodes

candygirl wrote;

Not that there's anything wrong with Saved by the Bell - especially at 3am!

Jody Barsch* wrote:
after the Jordan-Brian-Angela love triangle (or whatever) was made more definite in "In Dreams", I do see how it might have been an accptable place to end the series for most of the characters.

why the big, old "whatever" here?