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Although she gets caught, which is kind of funny, Patty's listening to Angela's telephone call from Jordan really surprises me. Graham and Patty have gone to great lengths to respect Angela's privacy. Listening in on Angela's phone call just seems low. Graham's calling her "Patricia" is so classic. It's the only time in the series we hear her full first name. Parents often use their children's full first names, and often last names, too, when they are scolding them. What Patty is doing is childish. She deserves to be scolded. I know Patty wants to know what's going on in her daughter's life, but listening in on phone calls is not the way to find out.

the Rocky Horror Picture Show

A great film/stage play! Have you seen it?

starbug wrote:the Rocky Horror Picture Show

A great film/stage play! Have you seen it?

Thanks, star. I just couldn't figure out what you guys were talking about! I have seen the movie, but not the stage play. Not a big fan, but I appreciate it.

One of my favorite scenes I this episode is when Angela unloads everything that has been going on with Rayanne and the band onto her parents. Her parents just sit there in this state of shock, afraid to say anything, because they don’t want her to stop, but they wish they could join in on the conversation. The look on their faces is priceless.

We see the contrast between Patty and Amber’s parenting style when Rayanne attempts to confide with Amber about her problem with her friends. Rayanne tries to start a serious conversation with Amber, and Amber totally blows her off and starts naming appetizer options while she stares into the freezer. Then she tries to make Rayanne feel better by feeding her butterfly shrimp. This is representative of Amber’s parenting strategy, do what you have to so that problem is fixed in the short term. Where Patty’s worries about the how Angela’s current issues will affect the rest of her life. This only adds to Angela and Patty’s inability to communicate. Teenagers don’t want to think about how their choices now will affect them later, life only exists in the present at that age.

Candygirl wrote:

We see that Danielle has a hockey stick when she leaves for school. I'm not an expert on these things, but does was it an ice hockey stick or a field hockey stick? I love imagining her running down a field hacking at other girls' ankles with her stick. At least she has a way to release her pent-up frustration

It is, in fact, a hockey stick. We also see Daniellle wearing a very vintage hockey helmet the night before when she is tasting Graham’s chocolate sauce. I always assumed she was playing floor hockey at school, either at recess or in P.E. Often schools supply cheap plastic sticks to use, but you can usually use your own if you have one. That’s what I did.

I also noticed that the bass player is wearing a shirt with the number 90 on it. It reminds me of Brian’s shirts. First with the number 3 in the pilot, and the number 8 we see Rickie wear in Halloween. I tried to think of some significance for all the numbered t-shirts, but I think it has to do with the fact there are no name brand shirts in mscl. Putting a random number on a shirt is an easy way to print something on a shirt without infringing on any copyrights. They remind me of the black smashing pumpkins t-shirts that said “zero” on them, those were great.

nothingman wrote:I also noticed that the bass player is wearing a shirt with the number 90 on it. It reminds me of Brian’s shirts. First with the number 3 in the pilot, and the number 8 we see Rickie wear in Halloween

Rickie is wearing Brian's shirt (with the number 3) in Halloween - you can see a picture in this thread

While we're on the subject of t-shirts - Joey (the drummer) is seen wearing a Rolling Stones shirt.

I kind of wished it was a field hocky stick. But I guess it doesn't matter. I can't get the image of the two girls fighting while playing field hockey in Igby Goes Down out of mind. 'Course those girls are a little older than Danielle. It's just funny to watch them fight. They have potty mouths, too. I'm sure Danielle tries hard not to curse.

I could add that I find women who play sports very sexy. But this probably goes without saying. Field hocky? Must be those Catholic schoolgirl uniforms.

I get the impression that when Amber talk about Bobby Dylan and Rayanne's singing at Club Vertigo, Amber is concerned about Rayanne. When they hug, Amber's concern is clearly visible on her face. Now, she probably has to work while Rayanne is singing, but I'm sure she would want to be there. Of course, she could call in from work, but she probably would not get paid for missing work. That would be a tough choice for her.

Girls playing field hockey - always makes me think of Freaky Friday.



Re: the Bob Dylan conversation - I agree. I think part of the reason why Amber looks so concerned is that Rayanne says, "This is going to be the most amazing night of my night," echoing Rickie's fear that Rayanne is making this into a bigger deal than it is, which means that she will be even more disappointed if if doesn't turn out the way the hopes (kind of like Corey's statement about the dance). Couple that with the seed of suspicion that Patty already planted into Amber's head, and I can see why she is worried. Interestingly, she offers no words of advice or warning to Rayanne.

I think that Amber offering up the butterfly shrimp is more of a distraction than anything else. In this respect, she still treats Rayanne like a child. It reminds me of giving a crying baby a pacificier. Her solution (leech onto Angela and Jordan) isn't very practical or sensitive to any of them. In all fairness, I would like to say that Amber's a typical supportive mom when she says, "Everyone loves you!"

The unwritten law about people not getting involved in other people's family matters is so true. Parents don't want to hear that other people think they are bad parents. It's a testament to how strongly Patty feels about Rayanne that she talks to Amber about Rayanne possibly drinking again. I cringe when she talks to Amber over the phone about the situation. I just know the conversation will not go well. Patty seems to choose her words poorly. Phrases like "you are certain" always spell trouble. I think Patty knows how important Rayanne is to Angela because Angela talks about Rayanne a great deal. At least she did talk about her before she started hanging out with Jordan so much. Amber probably knows Angela through Rayanne's talking about her, too. Additionally, Patty probably feels some responsibility for Rayanne because she saved Rayanne's life. And Patty probably feel some remorse about not being able to save her college roommate's life. She doesn't want to let Rayanne die without doing something about it. So, Patty has many reasons why she doesn't heed her best instincts and Graham's advice for her to stay out of the situation.

I agree that it does seem odd that Patty waits until the next morning to go to Amber and Rayanne's apartment. You would think that she or Angela would call them. Without anyone answering, Patty's urge probably would be to drive over to their apartment that night.

Patty's telling Rayanne to call her Patty is really classy. The fact that Rayanne calls Patty Mrs. Chase is classy as well. I know I didn't call my friends' parents by their first names unless they said it was OK.

Rayanne's saying that caring for Angela is the one thing she and Patty have in common is an interesting comment. There have been some posts in this thread that question Angela and Rayanne's friendship. Why does Rayanne consider Angela so important? I bring this up because Angela seems to pull away from Rayanne in the last couple of episodes. I remember what Sharon says about Jody Barsh and her relationship with Rayanne. What makes Angela different from Jody? I know what happened between them is "like so known" but anyone care to comment?

candygirl wrote:

Rickie is wearing Brian's shirt (with the number 3) in Halloween - you can see a picture in this thread

While we're on the subject of t-shirts - Joey (the drummer) is seen wearing a Rolling Stones shirt.

I stand corrected, it was a 3 all along, for some reason my Brian saw an 8?

Whatever happened to Shane? The Shane to Joey transition is such a mystery.

ANGELA AND RAYANNE

there seems to be a lot of debate going as to whether or not angela is a GOOD FRIEND to rayanne, at all, and in this episode in particular. a lot of people have also brought up the poimt that they are not exactly sure what it is about the friendship that is particularly rewarding or important to either of the girls at this point.
first off, i think it's always difficult and a little simplistic to mark someone a good or bad friend. relationships are very complicated, and we also have to consider the ages of the people involved. angela and rayanne are best friends. this means that they share secrets with each other, they hang out a lot (or did), they know a lot about one another, and they have a tacit agreement that their friendship means a lot to both of them.
a series of events have led them to this point where neither one is sure what to expect from the relationship anymore. at first, it was a friendship in which the "leader" (rayanne) ran the show. she decided where they would go, who they would hang out with, and what was cool. secretly, she clung to angela because so much of what angela was and had were things that rayanne craved for herself. meanwhile, angela was content to sit back and let rayanne orchestrate everything because she was ready for a change from her 'normal" and "boring" life. she liked the idea of trying new things and rayanne was an infectious, fresh force in her life.

-then, angela starts to have a crush on jordan. initiallty, this is great for the friendship. they have things to talk about, plots to launch. eventually, though, once angela and jordan actually start interacting, rayanne doesn't have a place in the angela/jordan dynamic, so it's one part of angela's life that rayanne cannot share
-mind you, throughout the friendship, rayanne has had her share of guys. i am sure angela has had to wait for rayanne at parties or look for her in the boiler room. rayanne does not consider this a big deal, though, because she never thinks about these guys after the fact.
-another thing that has been developing is angela's relationship with rickie. she is no longer just rayanne's friend, but rickie's friend also. in fact, she is often there for rickie in a way rayanne cannot be.
-angela reconnects with sharon, and though this actually opens up an opportunity for rayanne (i.e. to become sharon's friend also), it initially threatens rayanne, who feels like she is being replaced.
-throughout all of this rayanne increases her drinking.
- when rayanne OD's. she scares angela, and i think this is a big part of why angela pulls back. but there are other factors as well.
i think angela bgins to realize (mabe only subconsciously) that she needs to look out for herself. she should not and cannot let rayanne dictate what is right and wrong and who is cool and who is not. angela's best luck with jordan has been when she's tried herself. i believe that she is entitled to ths separation. i am not implying that she should stop being friends with rayanne, but in all honesty, rayanne is the one who needs to keep herself sobr, not angela or rickie or anyone else.
i say this because i have been involved in relationships and friendships in which i have tried WAY TOO HARD to chaneg someone or take care of someone and it is almost never worth it, healthy, or successful. true, angela and rickie ought to be more supportive of rayanne's sobriety, but it's not like they drink in front of her or take her to places where sobriety is actively threatened.
more in a sec.....

likelife wrote:i believe that she is entitled to ths separation. i am not implying that she should stop being friends with rayanne, but in all honesty, rayanne is the one who needs to keep herself sobr, not angela or rickie or anyone else.
i say this because i have been involved in relationships and friendships in which i have tried WAY TOO HARD to chaneg someone or take care of someone and it is almost never worth it, healthy, or successful. true, angela and rickie ought to be more supportive of rayanne's sobriety, but it's not like they drink in front of her or take her to places where sobriety is actively threatened.

I agree that Rayanne's sobriety is her own responsibility. One of the problems in young/immature relationships is trying to change the other person. It's very common to think the other person will change because you love them, they love you, you know what's best, etc. but the truth is that no one changes unless they want to change (the reason behind wanting to change might be to make the other person happy, but that's another discussion).

True, Rickie and Angela haven't tempted Rayanne with alcohol, but Rayanne feels abandoned - emotional support is more helpful than physically restraining someone from drinking. Rayanne, on the other hand, does not want to admit that she needs this kind of support (hence the reason why she blows off Rickie's questions and tells him to keep Miss K's brochures).

[I stand corrected, it was a 3 all along, for some reason my Brian saw an 8?]

hee, hee you said your Brian [/quote]

nothingman wrote:I stand corrected, it was a 3 all along, for some reason my Brian saw an 8?

Heh, don't worry - I thought it was a 5 until I got my DVD set!

I've been re-watching the MSCL eps carefully, so have lots of new thoughts on some in particular:
Why didn’t Angela’s hair get slightly wet/damp after she got out of Jordan’s car – it was clearly raining quite hard.

Angela practically apologises to Jordan incase he felt pressured into letting Rayanne sing for his band. This is in direct contrast to what Jordan did, in the previous episode, when he was pressuring Angela into having sex with him. He never apologised for his behaviour after she said she wasn’t ready. This shows his lack of communication skills.

Jordan is annoyed that Rayanne is now part of his band. It’s just like when he didn’t want Angela colliding with the other side of his life (his friends and his music side) in ep 12 “Self Esteem”.

Rayanne is jealous of Angela’s seemingly perfect family-life. Angela has a father and a sister, which Rayanne does not. She is upset that no one cares about her being sober for a month, but she’s generally most upset that she has become distant from Angela, after the night she OD’d. Plus Angela is spending more and more time with Jordan – Rayanne wishes that she had the type of relationship that Angela has with Jordan. Rayanne shows how upset she is, when she’s at home with her mum. She wishes that her mum realised that they don’t have as normal a life as other people.

Rayanne says to Rickie “why wouldn’t they want me?” (about Jordan's band) – a negative thought, so she then lists her good qualities to make herself feel better.

I think that Rickie realised that Rayanne wouldn’t be Rayanne if she didn’t drink (quite a sad thought).

Funny scenes: when Patty is jealous that Graham got to meet Jordan before she did, and when Patty is stunned after Angela talks about her private life infront of her and Graham.

*~Emerald~*