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I didn't notice that, but I haven't watched Self-Esteem on DVD yet - I will definitely turn up the volume for that scene!

Just goes to show that Rickie was right when Rayanne asked how people got an idea about her being the Sophomore Girl with Most Slut Potential: "Research."

Of course that brings up another question: if Rayanne is making out with guys (whose names she can't remember correctly) in school closets, etc. and that is considered slut POTENTIAL, what qualifies as an actual slut? Are orgies a requirement?

candygirl wrote:Of course that brings up another question: if Rayanne is making out with guys (whose names she can't remember correctly) in school closets, etc. and that is considered slut POTENTIAL, what qualifies as an actual slut? Are orgies a requirement?

Maybe actual sex? Not just "making out"?

at the idea of orgies being a requirement for anything.

Or do you mean COMPLETE SEX!!!

I think that promiscuous sex is usually what qualifies high school girls as sluts, and since Rayanne seems to have had sex before her tryst with Jordan, why is she awarded the slut potential award rather than the actual slut award?

Megs wrote:

candygirl wrote: And in "Self Esteem" when Shane asks, "Who you got in there?" (knowing that it is most likely Angela), Jordan responds, "No one - just a girl. Shut up!"

Did anyone else notice that in that scene, after Shane asks who Jordan has in there, Jordan says "No one", and Shane goes, "Rayanne?" And Jordan says, "Yeah. Shut up." Foreshadowing, anyone?

When I watched Self Esteem again, I thought that Shane said, "No one?" before Jordan said, "Yeah. Shut up."

Maybe I need to turn on the close captioning.

You really have to listen. I am pretty sure that Shane mumbles Rayanne before Jordan tells him to shut up.

Ok, now I'm just writing before reading the thread again. Searched for a suiting thread about this subject.

I Think that in Why Jordan Can't Read he shows very much that he is falling for Angela. The song is obviously not the point. It's the kiss in the car. Anyway... what if the song is about Angela but Jordan would never admit it. I guess it's suppose to be like we've always known, about his car. Just fun to think about it. If they were real ppl and not from the script anything could be true.

Anyway. I think the scene in the hallway when Angela asks Jordan to meet her parents is so embarresing. I would've died.

KrokRos wrote:I Think that in Why Jordan Can't Read he shows very much that he is falling for Angela. The song is obviously not the point. It's the kiss in the car. Anyway... what if the song is about Angela but Jordan would never admit it. I guess it's suppose to be like we've always known, about his car. Just fun to think about it. If they were real ppl and not from the script anything could be true.

Well I think that even if the song really is about Angela, Jordan is just dumb enough to not even realize it.

Megs wrote:

candygirl wrote: And in "Self Esteem" when Shane asks, "Who you got in there?" (knowing that it is most likely Angela), Jordan responds, "No one - just a girl. Shut up!"

Did anyone else notice that in that scene, after Shane asks who Jordan has in there, Jordan says "No one", and Shane goes, "Rayanne?" And Jordan says, "Yeah. Shut up." Foreshadowing, anyone?

He really says Rayanne? Get out! I missed that! Im gonna have to watch that episode again!!!

omg hehe wrote:

Megs wrote:

candygirl wrote: And in "Self Esteem" when Shane asks, "Who you got in there?" (knowing that it is most likely Angela), Jordan responds, "No one - just a girl. Shut up!"

Did anyone else notice that in that scene, after Shane asks who Jordan has in there, Jordan says "No one", and Shane goes, "Rayanne?" And Jordan says, "Yeah. Shut up." Foreshadowing, anyone?

He really says Rayanne? Get out! I missed that! Im gonna have to watch that episode again!!!

I am almost positive that he mumbles that.

i agree w/ the first person who posted....jordan's liking towards angela grows throughout the series...just look at 'why jordan can't read'

right after they kiss...he goes 'sorry, i interupted you'...c'mon people, that's obvious...he thinks about her, cares about her, and likes her...and that song is about angela! deep down he was writing it about her...imho..

and notice how show has something to do w/ red...haha....i mean in so many episodes it's clear that red is the big color. angela's hair, her back pack, 'women looking good in red', the song 'red'...everything has something to do w/ red. i wonder what the big deal w/ the color is. i notice myself owning a lot of red these days too. haha

I'm sorry. What's the deal with "w/". Why not write "with" when it's not that long and clearly looks better.

Anonymous wrote:and notice how show has something to do w/ red...haha....i mean in so many episodes it's clear that red is the big color. angela's hair, her back pack, 'women looking good in red', the song 'red'...everything has something to do w/ red. i wonder what the big deal w/ the color is. i notice myself owning a lot of red these days too. haha

See this http://www.mscl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1847 for an earlier discussion on the color Red in MSCL.

Megs wrote: See this http://www.mscl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1847 for an earlier discussion on the color Red in MSCL.

Megs, coming up to snatch the Mod title from candygirl....

Some great points raised regarding the relationship between Jordan, Shane and Angela.

It’s obvious that Jordan’s feelings and actions, towards Angela (and probably everything) vary in relation to those around him; due to the already mentioned pressures of not being alone and so on and so forth.

Whilst one watches the episodes one views the evolution of the “Jordan Catalano” relationship; beginning with an obsession within Angela’s mind (which at the time doesn’t appear reciprocated [if indeed true reciprocation is possible]) eventually growing into [perhaps] Jordan realising he truly loves her. The question is: is Jordan [and Angela for that matter] qualified to be in-love [with each other].

One thing is clear: Jordan has feelings for Angela beyond his own selfish existence. Perhaps it has been evident from long before we (as viewers) are aware that Jordan has feelings for Angela, and is one reason why Shane acts so dreadfully regarding her. He is aware that she may become a threat to his high school survival and therefore downplays the character towards Jordan as evidenced in the way he refers to her “that strange girl…” etc, therefore Jordan’s dismissal of Angela’s relationship with him is more understandable; it seems he would have no qualms with being seen with RayAnne (at least until it’s classed as wrong!) and besides at that age making out with any girl, to some degree, would be fine--it all adds up the numbers.

I don’t think Jordan has much of a grasp of who he is, nor the range of his own emotions and certainly not the understanding of most of them, particularly the more complex / intense ones. Jordan does know that he likes Angela; he knows that he finds her attractive and he knows that when she isn’t there he misses her. Whether or not he has developed the ability to adequately relate to those feelings and act in an appropriate way towards she whom the feelings are relevant is perhaps more a realism that a romanticism as sadly, as Graham says "[Boys] can sometimes not know how to be what you want them to be. My point is that, it's really hard to figure out how to be a man. Practically every man I know is still working on it."

Brian and Jordan’s relationship is interesting--particularly in the final episode. Brian articulates the feelings that Jordan’s mind is filled with. Where Jordan can claim ownership to what is written within that letter, the true owner of the words is, of course Brian, (Brain to Jordan). It seems that Brian is a lot more further ahead the road of being qualified to be in love than Jordan, he also understands his heart more than Jordan, using his ‘brain’ to relate the things mentioned in the above paragraph. Although in the eyes of Angela, Jordan has used his ‘Brain’ to relate to his feelings and articulate them in a manner consistent with her desires.

This is where further episodes would have been a great help in understanding these relationships. As it stands, I think Jordan’s feelings are premier to him, and more than likely [will end up nothing more than] superficial. Does he really know any better?