Time to pull the customer service form?

Jason R · Post by **Jason R** » Dec 27th 2002, 4:47 pm

Nobody from AU has even logged in in over a month, and the number of complaints and problems is absolutely frightening.

I would like to keep the site up, especially since AU does not respond to emails or pick up their phone, even if it is just to provide a record to the person complaining.

However, I need advice on a few things.

1) I am afraid that the site is giving people false hopes that they will receive refunds. Obviously, since AU stopped caring, this is not going to happen.
2) I would like to possibly bring in an outside firm to monitor the data so that it is independently reviewed, and so that it has more weight for credit card disputes.
3) I would like to put together a small group of volunteers who can access the data for people who request it.

Has anybody been receiving any sort of responses from Ross and/or AU?

Additionally, I am working with a member of the press on a possible story about this horrible experience with AU. If you would like to share your stories, please email me at dvd@drygrass.com

Additionally, if anyone has any idea of how to use this data more effectively, please let me know.

best
Jason

so-called customer · Post by **so-called customer** » Dec 27th 2002, 5:04 pm

I think the form should stay up, with the caveat that it is clearly indicated that you have no affiliation with AU, and that anyone filling out the forms should not expect any action to be taken on their behalf other than compiling statistical reference of those with complaints against AU.

Since there is no way to accurately audit the data (since you can't document which problems were handled given AU's shady business practices), you might also want to include a disclaimer about the data's use.

Jason R · Post by **Jason R** » Dec 27th 2002, 5:36 pm

Good ideas. I had been leaning towards keeping it up indefinitely, as a way to collect data. I'm planning a mass mail push next week. I want to make sure that people don't delay in complaining to their cards. Many are holding out for refunds, and I seriously doubt that they will materialize.

I would like to get customers to send my contact information to their credit cards' risk departments, so that I can start granting access to the cards. I have had a few requests from cards, but they have been case specific. It is a better use of everyone's time just to give them a password.

I was also considering surveying everyone in the database to find out which bank and credit card they used. Then I can send the data to the specific cards as a group.

GaryEA · Post by **GaryEA** » Dec 27th 2002, 5:47 pm

Jason,

I too think the form should remain active, especially for its value as a gague of AU is handling the situation as well as the stats for individuals who may need them to push for refunds.

An independant party may also squelch the notion that you are only interested in putting Ross out of business instead of trying to help and simply pressure AU to complete their obligations. People will still say what they want, but bringing in the third party will help matters greatly IMHO.

I don't know what you require in terms of volunteering, but I'm sure you'll be able to find people. One suggestion if I may; try to gather volunteers who didn't order from AU, like myself. This way, it won't be seen like it's being managed by disgruntled customers, and then disregarded. If need be, I can help a little bit as I ordered from DDD and not AU. I may need some hand holding in the beginning though. I don't want to screw things up.

I think that the image of the collective mob is what's keeping Ross from speaking out in public. First he was here, but retreated after the heat got turned up. Then he moved to business forums, and from what I can tell, he no longer actively tries to take on the matter as himself. even if he's still in there under a different name, it doesn't matter to me as I've seen little substance to help matters.

Perhaps a dose of impartial assistance will do the trick to get things back on track. Or maybe not. At this point, I really don't know what could help the situation. I have ideas that would work in an ideal world, but we all know that we're far from there right now.

Whatever your decision turns out to be, all my best.

Gary

Jason R · Post by **Jason R** » Dec 27th 2002, 6:19 pm

I agree that some non-customers should be included. However, he is accountable to the customers, and certainly should not be running and hiding from them.

And if he is not brave enough to face the criticism, he should have an employee post here on his behalf.

I think that he thinks that things will ultimately cool down and blow over and he will not be held accountable for the refunds.

He may be right.

Rickie Love · Post by **Rickie Love** » Dec 28th 2002, 3:32 am

Jason...I hope you are wrong. As one who was, for-no-discernable-reason, refunded, I STILL say: Nail. His. Ass. I have nothing left to gain at this point, except knowing that Ross can't pull this never-ending crap on anyone else.....

Nostradamus · Post by **Nostradamus** » Dec 28th 2002, 6:32 am

Jason Rosenfeld wrote:2) I would like to possibly bring in an outside firm to monitor the data so that it is independently reviewed, and so that it has more weight for credit card disputes.
3) I would like to put together a small group of volunteers who can access the data for people who request it.

Jason: When you mention "the data" above, are you referring to the collective statistics only, or to individual submissions?

I would like to get customers to send my contact information to their credit cards' risk departments, so that I can start granting access to the cards. I have had a few requests from cards, but they have been case specific. It is a better use of everyone's time just to give them a password.

Could you elaborate on that? What access would you grant? Who would be getting this access? Who gets a password? What does the password do? What kind of requests did you get from cards?

Finally, as it stands now, who has access to the Drygrass data?

Sorry if I sound like a broken record titled "The Spanish Inquisition's Greatest Hits", but it's getting harder and harder to keep all this straight in my head...

Jason R · Post by **Jason R** » Dec 28th 2002, 10:28 am

By data, I mean data about individual problems. I think that it will be more credible if I have more people verify its existence. Right now, it is too easy for Ross to say "Jason is overstating the problem."

All you have to do is look at the data to know that is bullshit.

Also, I would invite these people to co-administer the surveys, so they would see that the number of people with refunds really is pathetic.

so-called customer · Post by **so-called customer** » Dec 28th 2002, 2:59 pm

You had better be very careful about who has access to individual complaints, or you could be facing as much heat as Ross for divulging sensitive information without people's consent. The last thing everyone wants is another porn spam parade or worse. The data is not completely reliable since you have no idea how many double entries, false entries or entries that have been resolved but not reported, there are.

At this point, I don't really see what all of this is really going to do for the overall problem, which is Ross' business ethics and practices. Unless you are actively pursuing fraud charges, no amount of access to the data is going to make things better for customers. They will not get their bonus items, they will not get their refunds from AU.

If I were you, I would not grant any additional access to the data to anyone but the authorities or verified financial institutions. I certainly don't want my records becoming public information.

Jason R · Post by **Jason R** » Dec 28th 2002, 4:33 pm

Mostly valid concerns.

Unless someone included a typo when they entered their customer number, we filter out duplicate entries. The surveys do an ok job of giving some indication of the number of customers receiving (or most likely *not* receiving refunds). Not exact, but I cannot claim to be exact when I only have the emails for 2,700 out of approximately 3,600 customers. Unfortunately, I have no way of reaching those people.

The data will not be shared with the general public, but if, for example, a reporter wants to verify facts, I would be willing to show some or all of the data. They can read it on the site, but there is no way to export it without cutting and pasting thousands of times.

But yes, I would grant unfettered access to the State AG's office or similar agencies.

I am considering mass mailing everyone and asking what payment method they used, i.e. bank and visa/mastercard or amex, etc. Then I could group the customers by type and grant the banks only access to their own customers.

I would not be asking for credit card numbers, but you do raise a valid concern. At least half a dozen customers did post their credit card numbers when they submitted their data. So not just anybody can read the submissions.

The next step is going to be to strongly encourage all of those who have not yet contacted the AG or IFCC to do so. I hope that there is strength in numbers, because that may be the only chance to see any kind of action for those whose cards are not willing to cover the loss. I have heard rumors of investigations underway, but they are only rumors.

so-called customer wrote:You had better be very careful about who has access to individual complaints, or you could be facing as much heat as Ross for divulging sensitive information without people's consent. The last thing everyone wants is another porn spam parade or worse. The data is not completely reliable since you have no idea how many double entries, false entries or entries that have been resolved but not reported, there are.

At this point, I don't really see what all of this is really going to do for the overall problem, which is Ross' business ethics and practices. Unless you are actively pursuing fraud charges, no amount of access to the data is going to make things better for customers. They will not get their bonus items, they will not get their refunds from AU.

If I were you, I would not grant any additional access to the data to anyone but the authorities or verified financial institutions. I certainly don't want my records becoming public information.

lance · Post by **lance** » Dec 30th 2002, 1:48 pm

Rickie Love wrote:Jason...I hope you are wrong. As one who was, for-no-discernable-reason, refunded, I STILL say: Nail. His. Ass. I have nothing left to gain at this point, except knowing that Ross can't pull this never-ending crap on anyone else.....

You gotta love, Rickie Love!

I do

I couldn't agree with you more. Jason keep on keepin on. I and my friend Mek are still refundless and I would encourge you to keep the site up. I truly hope that all concerned get their refunds. I also hope that Ross and AU answer for their transgressions.

I am pressed for time right now, with the approaching onslaught of grad school I don't have time to spare. I would encourage any other MSCL'ers who are eager and willing to help Jason out to please let him know. Thanks again Jason for all your help.

Best,

Lance "Back-in-the-Saddle-Again" Man

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